DESPERATELY looking for GOOD Proprietary Trading Firm in London UK

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stc

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Hello All ,

Hope you are all doing great .

I am a self taught trader and trading from home part time about a year now side by side with a full time job .My result are mixed , I mainly trade US small cap stocks and some Forex pairs . It has become a passion for me . I am in my mid 30s and realized If I don't go after my passion I will regret in my life .

I have realized If i have to take trading to a further level i have to work around more professional environment / traders . At the moment I feel I am not going anywhere with lack of capital , information , technology , strategies etc.

I have researched at my best about all the firms in London but most of firm charge a lot for training .I have read reviews site like glass-door and many others But unfortunately most of the people have negative experiences .They charge tuition where they only teach basic which can be found free on internet but later they don't offer job or charge high commission , desk fee etc. I don't mind paying the tuition where I can achieve in depth knowledge but I MUST get a guaranteed career with them . But of course my preference will be those firms who doesn't charge . Here is a list of all the Firms I have researched and spoke with them .

1. AUDACITY CAPITAL
  • £ 3000 ( Inc VAT ) – 1 month training
  • training 9-5 – mon to fri – moorgate office
  • desk fee £380 pm
  • $15 k given to trade – 50 % split
  • No Base salary
2. Samuel & Co
  • 2 weeks program £1250
  • Trading capital given £20 k , No base salary
  • Based in watford
  • No guaranty of in house desk
  • Remote Trading after training
3. Amplifying Trading
  • Course fee £ 5760 over 9 weeks
  • Based on future market
  • -Don't have info what sort of contract after training
4. Pyne Trading
  • 8 weeks training £7500
  • Contacted several times but unresponsive .
5. Futex live
  • 8 weeks Training £3000
  • Based on future market
  • Contacted several times but unresponsive .
Firms DON'T charge for training :

1. Met Traders
  • Based ON future market
  • Free 8 weeks training 12 months minimum contract to trade with company
  • No salary
  • Live trading account fee £1000 pm
  • Not very good reviews , trader don't make money for a year
  • trading model volume generator for the company .
2. OSTC
  • Recruiting in 2019 only
  • basic £13k salary for training 3 months
  • bonus , volume generator , based in swansea
3. Mako Trading
  • Based on option market
  • 18 months training Only for the fresh graduate
Professional ( good track record ) Traders Only / No Training for novice or intermediate Traders / Or only training do not offer position in house :

hamiltoncourt Capital - Do not offer prop trading
Jane Street - Graduate only
Tower Trading group - offer prop trading to professional only
DRW - London branch don't recruit trainee / junior trader
chicago trading london * - Do not offer prop trading / courses for trainee
leaguetraders *- Do not offer prop trading
Jump Trading * - No training only experienced trader recruit
Bluefin capital - offer prop trading to professional only
Tradelinks - offer prop trading to professional only
Liquid Capital - offer prop trading to professional only
Ronin Capital - offer prop trading to professional only
Maven - offer prop trading to professional only
GHCO - offer prop trading to professional only
Bluefin - offer prop trading to professional only
Winchmore Capital - offer prop trading to professional only

I WILL DEEPLY APPRECIATE AND BE GRATEFUL IF ANY OF YOU PLEASE HELP ME FIND A GOOD PROPRIETARY FIRM IN LONDON WHERE I CAN PURSUE MY DREAM.
 
hi stc, like the amount of effort you have put into looking for a prop firm. while i cannot offer you the exact help you r asking for, <a prop firm>. can offer some insight here. joined a small prop (not in london) many yrs ago, was not charged for education & was given a small base salary. however, did not stick around for the 2yrs it takes to make a trader

avoid firms that charge for an education. alot of these firms just want to make a quick quid. it is also a great & free way to find an unpolished gem of a trader from paying 'students'. as you have said, most feedback that such 'education' can be found free online

to get 'real', these true props that do not charge will select only the cream of the crop, due to the sheer number of aspiring applicants. if you were them, who will you select?

if this route is not yours to take, there's still the part-time route. however, the commitment is hefty, & the journey long & lonely. why do you want to trade?
 
stc said:
I have realized If i have to take trading to a further level i have to work around more professional environment / traders . At the moment I feel I am not going anywhere with lack of capital , information , technology , strategies etc.
Click to expand...

What you're looking at the moment for might not exist, I think you may need to adjust your expectations here.

It seems like you're looking for some form of day trading firm/trading arcade that will provide you with capital, a salary and perhaps isn't too picky about who they'll take on (though you've also listed some options market makers, HFT firms etc..).

The problem is that you're perhaps about a decade or so too late, there used to be a bunch of firms (mostly in London) that would let people loose on TT sim and then, if consistent, back them to trade futures intraday + allow a small monthly draw/salary from the account to cover living expenses. That business model isn't too feasible these days and plenty of point and click intraday traders have fallen victim to automation.

Having said that, if you were to open a futures account with some US FCM and turn out to be consistently profitable at intraday trading then you could still go ahead and rent a desk at a clearing firm. (it is rather more likely that you'll just lose money attempting this and you've already stated that you've had rather mixed results with FX and US equities).

There are options market makers still trading from the screen, they've got well established processes for selecting traders and any candidate has low odds of being selected but on the plus side some of them do seem to give plenty people a shot at sitting their aptitude tests. Even if you are offered a position then you're not necessarily going to last more than a year or two, thus why they're continually recruiting and putting yet more batches of candidates through aptitude tests, quick fire mental maths questions etc...

HFT firms - I'm assuming if you had the sort of background they are after then you'd have already sent in a CV after contacting them.

Lastly, as you trade US equities, there are day trading firms in the US you could perhaps join remotely. I believe you might have to sit an exam but essentially these firms will provide additional leverage for you and you could perhaps find that some will offer training, chat rooms etc.. you'll put up your own cash too on a first loss basis. But for what you seem to be after, I guess this sort of thing might offer you a bit more than just trading alone with your current broker.
As with trying to trade futures intraday you'll probably lose money attempting this, but at least with this route you perhaps don't need to give up the day job and could carry on trading in the evenings.


Essentially if you don't have the sorts of skill sets that HFT firms are after then as far as "prop trading" is concerned you're either going to have to apply for and get through the screening/interview process at some options market maker (where you'll be competing with a whole bunch of recent grads) or you're going to have to put up your own cash and at best perhaps get a day trading type firm to give you additional leverage. You're unlikely to find someone wanting to back or offer you a job simply on the basis that you opened an account and had some mixed success trading in your spare time.
 
econbizer said:
hi stc, like the amount of effort you have put into looking for a prop firm. while i cannot offer you the exact help you r asking for, <a prop firm>. can offer some insight here. joined a small prop (not in london) many yrs ago, was not charged for education & was given a small base salary. however, did not stick around for the 2yrs it takes to make a trader

avoid firms that charge for an education. alot of these firms just want to make a quick quid. it is also a great & free way to find an unpolished gem of a trader from paying 'students'. as you have said, most feedback that such 'education' can be found free online

to get 'real', these true props that do not charge will select only the cream of the crop, due to the sheer number of aspiring applicants. if you were them, who will you select?

if this route is not yours to take, there's still the part-time route. however, the commitment is hefty, & the journey long & lonely. why do you want to trade?
Click to expand...


Thank you for taking time and sharing your experience . I know the truths about all these so called prop firms now a days , When you are doing any sort of job and you start loving it , have that gut feeling you are good at that Just need someone to show the right direction which will probably make you successful , I do have the same feelings about trading .Unfortunately I came to know about trading very late in my life otherwise i could've start preparing early in my life to get in the route and work for some investment bank and related .
 
DT said:
What you're looking at the moment for might not exist, I think you may need to adjust your expectations here.

It seems like you're looking for some form of day trading firm/trading arcade that will provide you with capital, a salary and perhaps isn't too picky about who they'll take on (though you've also listed some options market makers, HFT firms etc..).

The problem is that you're perhaps about a decade or so too late, there used to be a bunch of firms (mostly in London) that would let people loose on TT sim and then, if consistent, back them to trade futures intraday + allow a small monthly draw/salary from the account to cover living expenses. That business model isn't too feasible these days and plenty of point and click intraday traders have fallen victim to automation.

Having said that, if you were to open a futures account with some US FCM and turn out to be consistently profitable at intraday trading then you could still go ahead and rent a desk at a clearing firm. (it is rather more likely that you'll just lose money attempting this and you've already stated that you've had rather mixed results with FX and US equities).

There are options market makers still trading from the screen, they've got well established processes for selecting traders and any candidate has low odds of being selected but on the plus side some of them do seem to give plenty people a shot at sitting their aptitude tests. Even if you are offered a position then you're not necessarily going to last more than a year or two, thus why they're continually recruiting and putting yet more batches of candidates through aptitude tests, quick fire mental maths questions etc...

HFT firms - I'm assuming if you had the sort of background they are after then you'd have already sent in a CV after contacting them.

Lastly, as you trade US equities, there are day trading firms in the US you could perhaps join remotely. I believe you might have to sit an exam but essentially these firms will provide additional leverage for you and you could perhaps find that some will offer training, chat rooms etc.. you'll put up your own cash too on a first loss basis. But for what you seem to be after, I guess this sort of thing might offer you a bit more than just trading alone with your current broker.
As with trying to trade futures intraday you'll probably lose money attempting this, but at least with this route you perhaps don't need to give up the day job and could carry on trading in the evenings.


Essentially if you don't have the sorts of skill sets that HFT firms are after then as far as "prop trading" is concerned you're either going to have to apply for and get through the screening/interview process at some options market maker (where you'll be competing with a whole bunch of recent grads) or you're going to have to put up your own cash and at best perhaps get a day trading type firm to give you additional leverage. You're unlikely to find someone wanting to back or offer you a job simply on the basis that you opened an account and had some mixed success trading in your spare time.
Click to expand...

I appreciate your time and in depth information .It really helping me to gain more knowledge about the culture .
 
You might want to check out a guy called Tom Dante. I don't know him personally, but I follow him on twitter and he seems to be an ideal person for someone in your position to engage with.
 
stc said:
Thank you for taking time and sharing your experience . I know the truths about all these so called prop firms now a days , When you are doing any sort of job and you start loving it , have that gut feeling you are good at that Just need someone to show the right direction which will probably make you successful , I do have the same feelings about trading .Unfortunately I came to know about trading very late in my life otherwise i could've start preparing early in my life to get in the route and work for some investment bank and related .
Click to expand...

about that gut feel, it is good. it may not be enough. had that feel too when i went to that small prop. looking at the guys that stick there, they c things v.differently. 1 was a great real-time strategy gamer. another had a weird personality & did some memorable trades i will never b able to emulate. 1 boss went all eggs in, in the last recession, that made his pot of gold to build his company. he described some trades he took in the past as bungy jumping. some traders i saw at the co-lo building, had many tatts & gave off a hooligan vibe. an investment banker will have no better advantage over a street hooligan. my $ is on the hooligan. on the other hand i saw myself as a 'normal' guy. suspect the reason they took me in, was a feel for numbers & a dare to try

also often question myself, if starting earlier would have given an advantage. the answer is maybe. thou m glad im taking a longer & personal route in trading. had i succeeded @ small prop, i suspect my present self, would not like that version of 'me'. started trading for $, & would have failed severely in soul growth

to encourage you a little further on the part-time route. can't tell you what works & what doesn't, as there r too many possible paths to trading. can tell you what i c & is working for my journey. i c that many successful self-taught traders started late in their 30s, took 10yrs & became successful in 40s. many of them speak of trading as a spiritual journey, which i thot was BS in my 20s. only understood this after i went into the rabbit hole & saw with my own eyes. as a 'normal' city guy, had to 'kill' my old mindset & build it anew. it's a very painful process. had to c myself 'naked' & the ugliness

started small by breaking routines. mindfully doing the smallest of habits differently. this change will gradually open eyes to emotions/flawed mindset. eg. why heart rate increase looking at price ladders, fomo / fear, greed, anger. start an intimate journal of all your trades, identify best setup(s), fomo trades.. detail all emotions. everything you need to know & improve abt your trading is all in your past trades. i built a life & trading philosophy from here. know exactly how i want to life/trade
 
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econbizer said:
about that gut feel, it is good. it may not be enough. had that feel too when i went to that small prop. looking at the guys that stick there, they c things v.differently. 1 was a great real-time strategy gamer. another had a weird personality & did some memorable trades i will never b able to emulate. 1 boss went all eggs in, in the last recession, that made his pot of gold to build his company. he described some trades he took in the past as bungy jumping. some traders i saw at the co-lo building, had many tatts & gave off a hooligan vibe. an investment banker will have no better advantage over a street hooligan. my $ is on the hooligan. on the other hand i saw myself as a 'normal' guy. suspect the reason they took me in, was a feel for numbers & a dare to try

also often question myself, if starting earlier would have given an advantage. the answer is maybe. thou m glad im taking a longer & personal route in trading. had i succeeded @ small prop, i suspect my present self, would not like that version of 'me'. started trading for $, & would have failed severely in soul growth

to encourage you a little further on the part-time route. can't tell you what works & what doesn't, as there r too many possible paths to trading. can tell you what i c & is working for my journey. i c that many successful self-taught traders started late in their 30s, took 10yrs & became successful in 40s. many of them speak of trading as a spiritual journey, which i thot was BS in my 20s. only understood this after i went into the rabbit hole & saw with my own eyes. as a 'normal' city guy, had to 'kill' my old mindset & build it anew. it's a very painful process. had to c myself 'naked' & the ugliness

started small by breaking routines. mindfully doing the smallest of habits differently. this change will gradually open eyes to emotions/flawed mindset. eg. why heart rate increase looking at price ladders, fomo / fear, greed, anger. start an intimate journal of all your trades, identify best setup(s), fomo trades.. detail all emotions. everything you need to know & improve abt your trading is all in your past trades. i built a life & trading philosophy from here. know exactly how i want to life/trade
Click to expand...

Thanks for the encouragement, It’s all about mindset and discipline.I am not sure if I will find a prop shop but I will work hard on my trading style and improve . Do you trade for living ?
 
Quiet1 said:
You might want to check out a guy called Tom Dante. I don't know him personally, but I follow him on twitter and he seems to be an ideal person for someone in your position to engage with.
Click to expand...

I heard about him .I hope he is not one of those furu. But I will check him let’s see if he can help .
 
rawrschach said:
Futex went broke. I believe Pyne did too. Tom is decent.
Click to expand...

Futex is futex live now ,contacted both pyne and futexlive no response.

Do you know how much Tom charge for course ,I heard he will only teach bund ,future ?
 
Great post and great research.
I also suggest you consider remote and offshore prop trading firms as well.
Most of the prop firms i know (including where i work) do not offer any training. Only operate with experienced, professional traders.
 
Gustavo_ZAM said:
Great post and great research.
I also suggest you consider remote and offshore prop trading firms as well.
Most of the prop firms i know (including where i work) do not offer any training. Only operate with experienced, professional traders.
Click to expand...

Thank you for acknowledging my effort. I have found couple of remote prop shop but I am more interested to know what sort of strategy prop shop use .you seems experienced would you mind sharing how did you get chance working with a prop shop ?
 
They generally don't care as long as your risk profile is acceptable (and you're profitable).
 
stc said:
Thank you for acknowledging my effort. I have found couple of remote prop shop but I am more interested to know what sort of strategy prop shop use .you seems experienced would you mind sharing how did you get chance working with a prop shop ?
Click to expand...

I can't speak for all prop firms, but where i work, trader's are required to provide a type of guarantee or bond beforehand, unless trader has a successful proven track record. This is to offset initial software and data costs that are passed through. Our traders' strategies range from scalping, swing trades, market making, pairs trading and so on.

I suggest you first contact the firms you have researched to get a feel for their customer service, professionalism, etc. If you can't get good customer service when inquiring about opening an account, you can only imagine how things will be once you're already on-board and when you have issues or complaints. Once you find a firm that you are comfortable with, start with a small amount. Find out how often are profit disbursements and refund policies. Goes without saying, but look for as much transparency as possible.
 
Gustavo_ZAM said:
I can't speak for all prop firms, but where i work, trader's are required to provide a type of guarantee or bond beforehand, unless trader has a successful proven track record. This is to offset initial software and data costs that are passed through. Our traders' strategies range from scalping, swing trades, market making, pairs trading and so on.

I suggest you first contact the firms you have researched to get a feel for their customer service, professionalism, etc. If you can't get good customer service when inquiring about opening an account, you can only imagine how things will be once you're already on-board and when you have issues or complaints. Once you find a firm that you are comfortable with, start with a small amount. Find out how often are profit disbursements and refund policies. Goes without saying, but look for as much transparency as possible.
Click to expand...


Thanks for sharing your experience .Most of the firms I have researched charges a hefty amount for training then provide a fund with 50% split .As I have mentioned in my main post customer reviews are not satisfactory . They teach the basic which I already know then you just stuck there . Desk fees , commission eats up your 50% profit split .

The firm you are working for have they taught you from scratch ? Are they using any be spoke strategies which aren't available on internet . If so paying a small amount of bond money sounds fair . I haven't found a single firm in UK where I can say firmly that worth paying the tuition or charges .Would you mind suggest me any firm worth looking into ,you can DM me .Thanks
 
As I mentioned before, I suspect what you're looking for doesn't exist. I certainly wouldn't look to pay a firm for training, especially if you don't think they have anything to offer.
 
DT said:
As I mentioned before, I suspect what you're looking for doesn't exist. I certainly wouldn't look to pay a firm for training, especially if you don't think they have anything to offer.
Click to expand...

It is frustrating , it is hard to find genuine firm now a days
 
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