Alpari Bucketshop

Soloquan

Established member
Found this thread over at ForexPeaceArmy this morning.

Very interesting indeed. The complainant to Alpari has included 7 videos of constant requotes when trying to exit and 'trade context busy' when trying to place a trade. The complainant says this only started to happen when they started to win.

If you read the thread Alpari do respond but I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions.

I know how some of you love your conspiracies and there was a big debate a few weeks back here on bucket shops using Virtual Dealer from Boston on MT4 platforms. This might add fuel to that little fire ;)

Caught by Live Platform Video Clips - How Alpari UK subtly forces you into paying multiple folds more pips than their published spreads!
 
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Soloquan

Established member
Just noticed although the complainant says "started to win" take a look at some of those astronomical losses they've racked up there in open positions when trying to close out a different trade for about $4 :D

Oh and apologies if this has already been posted, I did a quick search... ish but I like to give the mods something to do if this is a repost
 

tar

Legendary member
This has nothing to do with Alpari , all fx retail brokers and all Spreadbetting companies are bookies , it is gambling not trading , if you lose they win if you win they lose ...
 

pboyles

Legendary member
Found this thread over at ForexPeaceArmy this morning.

Very interesting indeed. The complainant to Alpari has included 7 videos of constant requotes when trying to exit and 'trade context busy' when trying to place a trade. The complainant says this only started to happen when they started to win.

If you read the thread Alpari do respond but I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions.

I know how some of you love your conspiracies and there was a big debate a few weeks back here on bucket shops using Virtual Dealer from Boston on MT4 platforms. This might add fuel to that little fire ;)

Caught by Live Platform Video Clips - How Alpari UK subtly forces you into paying multiple folds more pips than their published spreads!

Its not really a conspiracy when it has been proven by the relevant authorities and the culprits have been heavily fined. I believe all forex brokers and SB firms are doing this sort of thing, up to now only a handful have been caught, the rest will be caught eventually.
 

Soloquan

Established member
Its not really a conspiracy when it has been proven by the relevant authorities and the culprits have been heavily fined. I believe all forex brokers and SB firms are doing this sort of thing, up to now only a handful have been caught, the rest will be caught eventually.

You mean caught using the Virtual Dealer Plugin? Or caught manipulating prices?

What I don't understand is why SB and Bucketshops need to do this anyway if 90% are 'loosers'?

Yes yes that's been asked a thousand times on here it's a rhetorical question :p
 

wackypete2

Legendary member
I watched 1 video. I'm not going to defend Alpari since I don't use them but I will say it's easy to blame the broker when you don't know what you are doing or how your platform works. In the vid I watched the issue was "Trade Context Busy". This is a bug in MT4 AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ALPARI OR ANY OTHER BROKER. The fix is to close the platform and reopen it. I suspect some of the other vids are of similar ilk.

90% of traders lose because they just don't know what they are doing, think they know it all, and can't be @rsed to research a bit.

Peter
 

Soloquan

Established member
I watched 1 video. I'm not going to defend Alpari since I don't use them but I will say it's easy to blame the broker when you don't know what you are doing or how your platform works. In the vid I watched the issue was "Trade Context Busy". This is a bug in MT4 AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ALPARI OR ANY OTHER BROKER. The fix is to close the platform and reopen it. I suspect some of the other vids are of similar ilk.

90% of traders lose because they just don't know what they are doing, think they know it all, and can't be @rsed to research a bit.

Peter

Well I thought this too, but a bit further on in the thread the complainant does say that she/he did close the platform and reopen with no fix. He/She also said that this never happened when 'loosing'.

Hey I'm playing devils advocate here, I don't use Alpari, I have done a few years ago and never really had any cause for concern so I'm not defending either the complainant or Alpari. Just thought it was interesting going from the topic of VDP last week or whenever it was.

Totally agree with you btw on the 90% 'loose' because they don't know what the fu*k they're doing. All too easy to blame the bookies if you ask me. "Why did I 'loose' that trade by 50 pips when my t/p was only 5 pips away, MUST be the SB company stop hunting me for my measly £1 pp stake"
 

wackypete2

Legendary member
Certainy there are brokers who do unscrupulous things and use the VD plug-in. Perhaps in the midst of that the bug also popped up.

BTW, it's easy to get that bug to come up.

I don't have the time at the moment but later on I'l go through the thread and other vids.

Peter
 

BeginnerJoe

Senior member
What I don't understand is why SB and Bucketshops need to do this anyway if 90% are 'loosers'?

Actually they don't need to. The market itself ensures it. Just use charts from two different sources to convince yourself the bucketshop is, on the whole, reasonable. The market is a stop eating machine by nature.
 

The Leopard

Experienced member
I think these discussions are largely futile in practical terms (not that there's anything wrong with having them, and it's interesting to see people's experiences).

In the end though, it just comes down to what you're comfortable with. If you think you can use a bucket shop successfully, go ahead. Maybe you can, and the undoubted fact that some have been fined doesn't necessarily mean that they are all spawn of Satan.

For me, I just can't have confidence unless it's DMA. I want to know that my broker can only profit from my trading, and not from my losses (looses).

But it comes down to each individual, and everyone has to make up their own mind.
 

Soloquan

Established member
Absolutely agree with both of you Leopard and BJ. I do use a bucket shop (IG) and use charts from another SB just to satisfy in my mind that there is no foul play. You see a spike on one, and low and behold there is the same spike on the other. Now like Pete earlier I'm not denying that there are unscrupulous goings on with SB companies but it is by no means as prevelant as many suggest.

And Leopard, if I had the funds I'd be on DMA tomorrow. The 'beauty' of SB and bucket shops is that it opens up the market to those of us who can't use DMA. It's not the ideal situation but for those that have this 'edge' there is a limited opportunity to make a bit of cash in the short term and that's all that matters to me right now :)
 

ChocolateDigestive

Experienced member
Absolutely agree with both of you Leopard and BJ. I do use a bucket shop (IG) and use charts from another SB just to satisfy in my mind that there is no foul play. You see a spike on one, and low and behold there is the same spike on the other. Now like Pete earlier I'm not denying that there are unscrupulous goings on with SB companies but it is by no means as prevelant as many suggest.

And Leopard, if I had the funds I'd be on DMA tomorrow. The 'beauty' of SB and bucket shops is that it opens up the market to those of us who can't use DMA. It's not the ideal situation but for those that have this 'edge' there is a limited opportunity to make a bit of cash in the short term and that's all that matters to me right now :)

Hey Sol

What instrument(s) are you trading?
 

Soloquan

Established member
Hey Sol

What instrument(s) are you trading?

Indices. Ftse & Dow on an intraday basis, very occasionally Dax and Cac (but only in a very strong trending market.)I stay away from FX these days not my cuppa tea ;)
 

ChocolateDigestive

Experienced member
Indices. Ftse & Dow on an intraday basis, very occasionally Dax and Cac (but only in a very strong trending market.)I stay away from FX these days not my cuppa tea ;)

ok. well reference to your comment re-not having enough money to trade futures. You can trade the YM (mini DOW) through AMP futures using a free platform like ninja. There is no minimum account size, the intraday margin on the YM is $500. So you wouldnt need much cash to get you started.
 

The Leopard

Experienced member
ok. well reference to your comment re-not having enough money to trade futures. You can trade the YM (mini DOW) through AMP futures using a free platform like ninja. There is no minimum account size, the intraday margin on the YM is $500. So you wouldnt need much cash to get you started.

This is true and would be my preferred route now, although it wasn't when I traded a small account (I used IG Bucketshopindex). I think (just my opinion) trading 1 contract through a broker is a better way to go than using the SB company.

The problem with this is inflexibility in position sizing. Overall though, I think the advantages (short term and long term, and particularly long term) outweigh this.

The problems (the real problems) with bucket shops tend to start I think when you start doing some size (not a lot of size either). Before that you should generally be OK. You might have to put up with some tricks, like them skewing prices, asymmetrical slippage and so on, but you could view this as a reasonable price to pay for simplicity, granularity, free platform and charts, etc etc.

So I think bucket shops have their place, but probably less so the more serious you get. Like I say though, if someone has a different experience, I won't argue with them.
 

Soloquan

Established member
This is true and would be my preferred route now, although it wasn't when I traded a small account (I used IG Bucketshopindex). I think (just my opinion) trading 1 contract through a broker is a better way to go than using the SB company.

The problem with this is inflexibility in position sizing. Overall though, I think the advantages (short term and long term, and particularly long term) outweigh this.

The problems (the real problems) with bucket shops tend to start I think when you start doing some size (not a lot of size either). Before that you should generally be OK. You might have to put up with some tricks, like them skewing prices, asymmetrical slippage and so on, but you could view this as a reasonable price to pay for simplicity, granularity, free platform and charts, etc etc.

So I think bucket shops have their place, but probably less so the more serious you get. Like I say though, if someone has a different experience, I won't argue with them.

Thanks for this Leopard, oh and CD,

I downloaded NinjaTrader yesterday and I like it. Just need to find a broker (I see NT has a list) that suits my needs now but didn't know this was possible for someone in my position.

It's good, so cheers (y)
 

ChocolateDigestive

Experienced member
Thanks for this Leopard, oh and CD,

I downloaded NinjaTrader yesterday and I like it. Just need to find a broker (I see NT has a list) that suits my needs now but didn't know this was possible for someone in my position.

It's good, so cheers (y)

Ninjatrader is good enough to get started and I believe it is free through a broker. Most pros would use Xtrader & CQG I believe but ninja is fine to get started, when you are starting it's best to keep yoor costs down. you can open an account with AMP for $1000. Futures Broker | AMP Futures Trading. just be sure of your strategy though as it wont take many ticks to wipe you out which could be damaging/destablising.
 

Soloquan

Established member
Ninjatrader is good enough to get started and I believe it is free through a broker. Most pros would use Xtrader & CQG I believe but ninja is fine to get started, when you are starting it's best to keep yoor costs down. you can open an account with AMP for $1000. Futures Broker | AMP Futures Trading. just be sure of your strategy though as it wont take many ticks to wipe you out which could be damaging/destablising.

Originally I looked at getting esignal but at over $130 a month for real time quotes I thought it was a bit much just yet.

You heard of these guys?

http://www.accendomarkets.com/our-products/cfds/
 

forker

Senior member
Unless you doing hundreds or more per point, and you not trading a strategy that doesn't fit into a bucket shop framework, you shouldn't run into any issues other than minor requotes on market orders.

The problem with all these idiots who claim they are getting fooked is themselves. They probably hit a minor winning streak and decided to up their position size. A £1 position that was requoted on entry to leave you down say £6 (worst case hypothetical example) is vastly different to a £10 position where you down £60 when you not used to the size mentally. Being used to £1 positions, it will be like having a heart attack when this happens and hence they b!!tch about slippage as though it is the reason they getting so screwed.
Every person who has attempted to trade has experienced this and it's a flaw in our dna called greed. The problem is the level headed side of the brain doesn't know how to deal with the shock and you get the birth of all these stories. It happened to me years ago in my rookie days where I blew 8k in 10 seconds and almost needed an ambulance. This was after I made 6k on a few trades in the previous 2 weeks and thought I was King Kong. Needless to say I very quickly fell to planet reality however it took me over a year to get over the mental scars. I almost gave up many times.
 
 
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