Advanced Structured Forex Trading

Going to extend the Stop just a tad to 30 pips at $1.1858 which is now 45 pips above the Long Apex Stop showing as $1.1813 in the Panel. The Blade/Apex trades are not active ("On") in the Panel and they don't have to be.

Because I was flat through the news, I simply used the Blade/Apex data shown on the Panel to fashion an off Panel re-entry into the original Day Trade profile.
 
FetteredChinos said:
"yes", "but" "I" "think" "you" "will" "find" "that" "the" "management" "don't" "take" "too" "kindly" "to" "multiple" "aliases"

"and" "as" "for" "reading" "the" "record", "I" "am" "afraid" "I" "have" "trouble" "concentrating" "when" "reading" "your" "excessive" "verbiage". "As" "a" "result", "I" "might" "miss" "a" "few" "points" "here" "and" "there".

FC


Can you please define excessive verbiage? If you can define, outline, explain and discuss this system using less verbiage, please be my guest and do so. If you understand this system that well, then you can help do a much better job of explaining it, or explaining how each prototype was built and given its project name.

If you have something relevant and on topic to discuss, please do so.

The questions are:

1) Are you now Long or Short the EURUSD right now? (everyone can see exactly what I’m doing by looking at the Panel and reading my notes)

2) Do you have 24-48 hr pivots for USD encumbered pairs?

3) Can you post those pivots with resistance and support levels or Long and Short entries at or near 0000 GMT?

4) Can you do this every 24 hours and if not, how often can you do this?

5) Do you have relevant questions regarding the technology that you see here?

These are the issues at hand.
 
7thSignalTrader said:
Can you please define excessive verbiage? If you can define, outline, explain and discuss this system using less verbiage, please be my guest and do so. If you understand this system that well, then you can help do a much better job of explaining it, or explaining how each prototype was built and given its project name.

If you have something relevant and on topic to discuss, please do so.

The questions are:

1) Are you now Long or Short the EURUSD right now? (everyone can see exactly what I’m doing by looking at the Panel and reading my notes)

2) Do you have 24-48 hr pivots for USD encumbered pairs?

3) Can you post those pivots with resistance and support levels or Long and Short entries at or near 0000 GMT?

4) Can you do this every 24 hours and if not, how often can you do this?

5) Do you have relevant questions regarding the technology that you see here?

These are the issues at hand.


to humour you with a response

1) not really, as im short GBP/USD at the mo

2) no, pivots are not a feature of my trading

3) no, because i am either in bed at that time, or out enjoying myself.

4) again no, because i have a life

5) yes, actually i do.. why are you using excel for your dashboard? i would have thought a more frontline language other than VBA would be more suitable.

and now a few questions for you..

1) what do you seek to get out of posting your "profiles" on here? be honest, or i'll send the boys round

B) why, despite repeated lashings from pretty much every board you have posted on, do you still keep coming back to post, and yet under a new alias each time? I'm not having a go here, more questioning your "alturistic" attitude in the face of hostility..
 
Punch said:
Tonight, I'll add two items to the mix -- modified pivots and predicted high and low.

Time of day is a key element of my calculations. I need to feed the midnight eastern close into my model. The pivots are valid for 24 hours.

For EUR/USD

Traditional levels:
Resistance: 1.1977 and 1.1948
Pivot point: 1.1903
Support: 1.1874 and 1.1829

Modified levels
Resistance: 1.1963
Support: 1.1877

Predicted:
High: 1.1944
Low: 1.1826

These three sets of levels are each calculated with a completely different method. They can conflict.


Awesome, Punch! Thank you very much. I find both your Traditional and Custom levels to be rather interesting thus far. Now, do you ever blend these two together and then actually use them in your trading?

I noticed that your actual Pivot turned out to be my standard 10 pip Entry Error at $1.1903! How ironic that turned out to be.

Also, do you have a mechanism for making these dynamic - so that they change with the moving market in real-time. Or, are these fixed for the 24 hour period? I would assume fixed, but I really don't like assuming many things.

Your Support levels were below my Day Trade signal Stop and I can't help but wonder what would have happened had their been no BenSpeak today?

Thanks and keep it coming!
 
FetteredChinos said:
to humour you with a response

1) not really, as im short GBP/USD at the mo

2) no, pivots are not a feature of my trading

3) no, because i am either in bed at that time, or out enjoying myself.

4) again no, because i have a life

5) yes, actually i do.. why are you using excel for your dashboard? i would have thought a more frontline language other than VBA would be more suitable.

and now a few questions for you..

1) what do you seek to get out of posting your "profiles" on here? be honest, or i'll send the boys round

B) why, despite repeated lashings from pretty much every board you have posted on, do you still keep coming back to post, and yet under a new alias each time? I'm not having a go here, more questioning your "alturistic" attitude in the face of hostility..


1) If you had read the very first post in this thread and several others that followed, the purpose and reason for my doing this would have stood out like a neon sign at midnight. So, I'm not going to waste my time repeating it here, yet again - please read the record as the question as already been answered several times already.

2) Visual Basic is not Object Oriented Programming. C, C++, Java, etc., are all Object Oriented type programming languages and they would be the Production platforms of choice should I decide to transfer the system into an OOP environment.

3) This new trading technology has been a Prototype ever since inception. The calculation intensive nature of a system such as this, lends itself very nicely to Excel. With Excel, I have instant access to built-in functions that can be quickly modified to meet my needs. I also have the ability to rapidly create and deploy custom functions. I can also create re-usable functions and the logic used to build them on the fly. I can shape my design workspace anyway I like to facilitate rapid development. I can create at will without the need to be conformed to an OOP IDE framework. A system like this involved heavy logic and a tremendous number of logical wrappers (Algorithms). Excel provides the easy manipulation of those key components in a number of different ways. I also don’t have the time wasting exercise of continually compiling and re-compiling code whenever new code changes are made at various levels within the system’s engine. It would have take far longer to build a system such as this using OOP simply given the architecture and IDE restrictions of most OOP type languages. Because “change” is the only constant in building a system like this, using something like Excel makes getting to the results of change, far more advantageous.

4) A project like this does not start out “as” a system. It starts out “as” a Research Project and “as” a Tools Development Project. In other words, you don’t start out with an “Indicator”, you start out with a blank sheet and you then “create” mathematical structures the evolved into logic that can be used as a “Tool” for testing theories about the behavior of data. That is far from having a traditional TA indicator that can be easily remade under C++, or Java and plugged into a GUI. You start with blank sheets, conduct research, build tools for theory testing, a database, indicators, signals, signal clusters, indicator modules, signal modules, signal metadata, integrate output from all sources and then build a GUI to bring it all together.

That is not something you want to attempt using OOP right off the bat unless you have a team of developers working for you. For one person, Excel was the optimal choice given the depth of the task at hand.


Lastly, the “hostility” that you mention “repeatedly” comes from very small minds who “repeatedly” engage in off-topic, irrelevant, illogical, irrational questioning having nothing to do with the point of trading, this trading technology, or the trades that it produces.

So, a much more enlightened question that an intelligent person would ask is: Why should I concern myself with what small minded people do, or think?

Knowing what one is talking about and “pretending” to know what one is talking about, is two entirely different things. I can read a persons question and determine whether or not the person really has a clue about what they are asking, or saying. For example: VB –vs- VBA. Or, asking why a mathematically driven project that clearly had to start out inside a “research” paradigm would be developed using OOP instead of something like Excel that was designed specifically for mathematics. Stuff like that is what I find both humorous and predictable at the same time.
 
Compounding said:
Got your email SD! Good to see you here on this forum too. Everyone is all here, so i guess class is..... ooh oh! where's echelon4x? we can't start the class until everyone is present :D . Oh well, not my fault he's late ;) . Well, i've got my book and my pen out and im ready to take notes! whats that? no chewing in the class? Oh man! sorry teach :cool: :D


Chewing gum is fine - wearing the dense/dunce cap is not cool. ;) (LOL!)

Good to see you here! :) E4 might show up along with a couple others.

P.S. I told you last night that we'd both be right on this trade today. I think if Ben's speech had been pushed off down the road a bit today, we would have seen the Day target being struck before the news plunge.
 
Hi,

I would be grateul if everyone gave 7th a chance to prove the success of his system. So please rather than question his motives can we please let his trading record do the talking. If he has not performed after 13 trades then by all means question him on everything but until then lets give him a chance.

Saleem
 
chuck5803 said:
7th,

I have been looking at your Tactical Dashboard and I was wondering about the "Capture" column. I understand the "Expect" and "Remain" columns, but does the "Capture" column represent the pips you have "permanently" captured, such as pips protected by a Trailing Stop (and that no matter what the currency does you cannot loose those pips) or are they "potential" pips that you would get if you were to exit the trade immediately?

Thanks,

Chuck


Chuck,

Great question. I had output for “Remaining” as well at one point and am thinking about putting it back into the Panel.

Capture for the Initial Move, Day and Swing are all now real-time values using the current close price as part of the formulation for the value you see on the Panel. However, for the Outlook Trade, I’m still using the Monthly High and the Monthly Low. So, for the Outlook Trade, the Capture value is the absolute value of the number of pips “captured” since the Entry. As you can see, had I entered the Outlook Trade at the point of its Entry (always the first trading day of the Month), my “Capture” would now be 286 pips which measured the distance between $1.2148 (this month’s open price) and the “monthly low” of $1.1859 which was struck yesterday in the 1300 GMT hour.

However, I am considering a move that would put back the “Remain” data. This would then show me the absolute value of what “has been accomplished” and what “is currently being accomplished”.

I think it came down to a real estate issue if I am not mistaken. I just ran out of Panel space – understanding that I tried not to make the Panel to verbose from a visual standpoint. I could make the Panel a lot larger and with far more detail than necessary. In fact, I could make the Panel take up two screens easily. But, from a tactical standpoint, I only wanted to see those elements that were absolutely essential for me to get a “specific” job done.

Hope this explains it – let me know if I missed your question. :) Thanks for asking relevant questions, by the way.
 
saleem20634 said:
Hi,

I would be grateul if everyone gave 7th a chance to prove the success of his system. So please rather than question his motives can we please let his trading record do the talking. If he has not performed after 13 trades then by all means question him on everything but until then lets give him a chance.

Saleem

Actually, I'm not here for that. The 13 trades to $7,000 is a joke as far as I am concerned (re-read my post). I'm doing that as a fun challenge, not some demonstration of my trading system.

The reason for my doing this is in my first post. The $7 grand deal is for fun, for me. One can view it anyway they want, however. I just want to see if I can do what somebody else got pounding on for claiming that he witnessed. So, for me, it is a fun challenge and way outside of what I'm doing here. But thanks for the appropriate comments on keeping this thread spot-on-target and relevant to the threads concepts outlined in the very first post.
 
Hi 7th,

This looks like another great thread in the making.

The new changes you made to the system appear to be now starting to get settled in nicely - interesting about that swing signal being off when it's never happened before - that's not an odd side-effect of the new changes is it ?

Compounding - I see that the ideas are flowing nicely for your "Pip Grabber" system, if you keep up with generating "out of the box" ideas there's a good chance that you'll stumble across an excellent trading concept (and possibly one that that's even new to 7th - anything can happen) - sorry I'm late to class lol !

I'm looking forward to seeing the MI6 and MI7 challenges progress...

I've been pretty busy recently as you've probably guessed from my lack of posts, though if I get a chance to trade at 00:00GMT (which is literally burning the midnight oil for me) I'll whizz up some pivots.
 
echelon4x said:
Hi 7th,

This looks like another great thread in the making.

The new changes you made to the system appear to be now starting to get settled in nicely - interesting about that swing signal being off when it's never happened before - that's not an odd side-effect of the new changes is it ?


Echelon4, welcome! Nose to the grindstone I see. Yes, you might have been a little late, but I've just started not too long ago. Hope things are going well with you at home and in trading. It has basically been a fairly news driven week for me. Lost 2 pips on one trade and took tiny profits on two more - not up to the standards of this system, but I've learned not to play with news and to take smaller profits to keep the cash flowing whenever I need to.

I'm basically now trading back into today's Day Trade signal from a much better entry point after I allowed the opposing news to bleed-off. A sensible approach given the price action fell into the Blade/Apex domain - so, things should turn out fine.

The Swing Trade light has been "Off" all week long. The system obviously saw something back on Sunday of this week (pretty cool) and would not allow the Swing light to come "On". Now, using 20/20 hindsight (which the system is supposed to give me before I need it) it would appear that whatever it was inside the Engine that caused the Swing suppression, thus far, has turned out be dead-on precise. Just take a look at the Swing Trade Entry price for this week at $1.1899 – current close is now $1.1888 – that would have placed the Swing Trade draw at 11 pips in real time with an absolute max draw (thus far) at 40 pips on this weeks low of $1.1859. So, even there, a 40 pip Swing Draw is well within specs. Yet, still, through today, the system does not want the Swing to come “On”, so I’m not going argue with it. Maybe it will come on next session, I don’t know and won’t know until the next Engine update at 0000 GMT.

So far, this week given the newsy nature of the week, I’m very happy with the resilience of the system though no real big pips have been made this week. I have no complaints thus far during this Beta and Certification phase and I am still tweaking the Initial Move Limit point and the Day Trade Entry point.

Just last night, I’ve decided to design and build one more Probability Module. It will use the existing Alpha-4 data (for those not familiar – don’t worry, Echelon4 has heard about it before though I have never fully detailed it). I’m going to call the new Module: Alpha-5P (P – for probability). They are actually TCD variants that allow me to calculate a density probability. I’ve decided to do this because the idea keeps nagging me – it won’t go away. I did not want to do anymore coding, but the idea seems to be too good to pass up. It has a very high degree of accuracy for pointing to the next move within a 24-48 hour envelope from the previous open. And, it sometimes opposes Straight TCD Probability. So, that will provide me with another layer of Probability Filtration, which should (in theory) move the long-term accuracy rating of the system higher – a nice fringe benefit (a little icing on the cake).

I’ll start the coding on the new module today and because it will require some Engine Update VBScript integration, I’m not quite sure yet what kind of coding hurdles will come up or what kind of work-a-rounds I’m going to be hit with. So, I guess I’ll have the new module written, installed and prelim tested by early next week, ready for its Beta début and then its Certification tests. Essentially, Alpha-5P will be plugged directly into the Primary Day Trade signal Metacluster and provide even more stability to that critical structure. It will lean the system more towards the Probability side of the Trend/Predict equation but I’ve been there and done that before and liked the results, so I’m ok with it at this stage.

Good to see you here!
 
Hey 7th,

I thought I would check in as well. I have been watching the thread for a few days now with interest. I too have been keeping myself busy with trading system development/research, etc. I'll just keep watching for now and maybe I'll chime in later on.

Hey Ech, good to see you here as well.

Take care all.

BRABED
 
Thanks for the welcome 7th !

Yes, fair point indeed about the swing trade status remaining "Off" - it sounds as though you've got that module nicely tuned, given how the price action has panned out so far. Because you've never experienced this before, what's your gut feel on what will happen when the swing trade status finally comes on ? A massive swing trade predicted to make up for the lost time ?

I agree that this has been a funny old week, I only made one trade though managed to escape with a meagre 4 pips in profit (mainly down to me not having time to monitor the trade). I say "escape" because with news around it's a 50:50 as far as I'm concerned as to which direction the big move is going to be in (providing there is one). I gave up a long time ago trying to understand the fundamentals of the news, there seem to be too many occasions where the price goes in totally the opposite direction to the one you logically think it should move in.

The new probability module sounds interesting. I know that when you mention probability density that you're talking about your own unique "out of the box" way of calculating probabilities. However, I was flicking through a trading book the other day and noticed the mention of pdf's. No, not the handy Abobe Acrobat files lol !, but the statistical probability density function.

(1/ (SQRT( 2*PI)) exp -0.5 (P - S) / S

Where:
P = Percentage Change Variable
M = Mean
S = Standard Deviation

Have you ever used this sort of equation in researching into high density probabilities - if so, does it work ?

Equations like this always seem to me to be a little too esoteric to be of use in developing trading systems. Also the standard stats. that you would have learned in school such as the so-called normal distribution don't seem to fit data such as FX data. I've recently spotted the lognormal distribution which seems to give a better fit , though none of these techniques seem to help you that much on the route to a highly accurate trading system.

Hi Brabed - good to see you here too - I'm sure you must have dabbled with all this conventional stats. stuff before - what do you reckon to it ? is it worth pursuing ?
 
Feb 15-16 Dashboard Panel at 4:04pm pac:
 

Attachments

  • Feb 15  through Feb 16.jpg
    Feb 15 through Feb 16.jpg
    281.2 KB · Views: 283
Again, the issues are:

1) Fine tuning the Initial Move Limit and thus the Day Trade Entry points.

2) Getting an opportunity to Beta the Blade/Apex trades with "On" lights.


Notation:

Swing Trade Light still "Off" - 4th day in a row. Will it make 5 days? Unknown - I just like the fact that it is so well balanced and well behaved - not to mention very patient.

Everything else at this time is functioning at pretty nominal levels.
 
echelon4x said:
Thanks for the welcome 7th !

Yes, fair point indeed about the swing trade status remaining "Off" - it sounds as though you've got that module nicely tuned, given how the price action has panned out so far. Because you've never experienced this before, what's your gut feel on what will happen when the swing trade status finally comes on ? A massive swing trade predicted to make up for the lost time ?[/b]

Well, not really sure. I used to be able to keep up with the system's ability to process data, but no where near that anymore, so I really don't know. There are some areas where the system has more real-time insight than I do. Too many layers of indicators and signals to plow through with too many possible outcomes to project in the flesh. I do know, however, that the Swing has been suppressed primarily due to all that "linear" action coming off the top at $1.2325. If you recall, the Outlook pointed at this level last month and turned out to be dead-on.

Ever since then (go take a good look at a Daily chart) the EURUSD has been demonstrating some rather "programmatic" looking linear behavior - all the way down to yesterday's $1.1859. A very big retrace of last months upside movement but that is not the point. The point that I'm making is the "nature" of the data as it came down - very linear in form which leads me to believe that it was "programmatic selling" of some kind. You see this type of linear behavior happen from time to time, but it is not the majority norm for the EURUSD.

That linearity is now starting to break-up a little and as it does, it will relieve the downside pressure from $1.2325 and allow more nominal price behavior to re-enter the pair on the TCD side of things and that will in-turn allow some of these Longs to break-out.




echelon4x said:
I agree that this has been a funny old week, I only made one trade though managed to escape with a meagre 4 pips in profit (mainly down to me not having time to monitor the trade). I say "escape" because with news around it's a 50:50 as far as I'm concerned as to which direction the big move is going to be in (providing there is one). I gave up a long time ago trying to understand the fundamentals of the news, there seem to be too many occasions where the price goes in totally the opposite direction to the one you logically think it should move in.

Exactly.... Fed raises rates and dollar drops on poor housing starts??? What??? That kind of stuff puts me on the Golf Course for the remainder of the day working on my Driver and 8 iron approach shots until the next Engine update - lol.


echelon4x said:
The new probability module sounds interesting. I know that when you mention probability density that you're talking about your own unique "out of the box" way of calculating probabilities. However, I was flicking through a trading book the other day and noticed the mention of pdf's. No, not the handy Abobe Acrobat files lol !, but the statistical probability density function.

(1/ (SQRT( 2*PI)) exp -0.5 (P - S) / S

Where:
P = Percentage Change Variable
M = Mean
S = Standard Deviation

Have you ever used this sort of equation in researching into high density probabilities - if so, does it work ?

Nope. My density calcs. take on a complete custom form and won't be found in a book (unless I write one!) In fact, they are broken down into something resembling binary code - not too far from it. I actually run probabilities on the "metadata" not the actual market data. I was not able to get enough refinement from the market data, so I had to go build some of my own and then create a mathematical structure (I guess you could say my own trading calculus) that would yield target regions or levels and then flush out probabilities from those regions of price points. If you are familiar with Ichimoku Cloud formations, then what I do is similar in concept by the way I get there is totally different. So, for me, the density comes form the regions of price points either indicating Long moves "next", or Short moves "next" in real-time.

The baseline text book linear non-linear equations are fine, but so much has to be added in this world, that you end up creating your own "math" so to speak. That is why I say that what I've created is really a new "language" that tries to describe hyper-short term market behavior and it involved routine math, but also non-routine logic that links together non-mathematical objects. It is just "different" than anything else I've seen in this business and at times very hard to put into mere words.
 
my projected pivots for 16/02/2006

Hi guys,

My over-simplistic projected pivots for 16/02/2006 GMT+11:
pivot = 1.1875
H = 1.1938
L = 1.1846
Let me know if this is off topic. :cheesy:

SD
 
7th,

You've certainly got an interesting take on probabilities. I've not done any calculus for a long time dP/dt (rate of change of price with respect to time) I would guess is a good starting point lol !

I can sort of relate to the binary idea, though I've been thinking of probabilities more in the sense of "fuzzy logic" i.e. not just impossible or certain in a given cloud formation (leading to to binary 0's and 1's), but differing "ballpark" degrees of probability say on a scale of 0 to 100 and split into 10% blocks.

Estimating the expected high and low to me seems to be the most important start - if that can be done to a reasonable level of accuracy then probabilties can be built within and just on the edges of those predicted extremes - with the probability density "cloud" being at its most dense near the expected high and low. I've looked at Ichimoku clouds and these I believe are slightly different in that they have fixed boundaries between which at certain times an enclosed area is produced - which could represent a cloud of probabilities or uncertainty I seem to recall from the Ichimoku indicator.

The question for me is how best to derive the probabilities, I've been looking into various possibilities (and am still working on them). Here are my ideas which may be of interest to Compounding and SD:

1) Using conventional stats. e.g. mean and standard deviation.

2) Using some of the uncommonly seen TA such as Gann angles - his work is interesting though seems to be more geared to longer term trading which was the norm in Gann's day.

3) Sorting and ranking various aspects of OHLC deltas (differences between the price points) to provide an indication of commonly occuring single candle patterns.

4) Storing a digital representation of common price patterns such as the old 1-2-3 formation, hanging man at the end of a rally etc. and using these to predict the future based on commonly occuring groups of candles seen in the past.

5) If we're currently in a daily downtrend and the weekly chart is showing a strong uptrend, then provided we can work out the probability of the weekly trend carrying on, we'll also be able to predict the turning point of the daily short back to long to a high probability density.


Returning to the more conventional - Looking at the old candle chart and pivots today I see that the S1 pivot at 1.1857 looks strong and given the horizontal price action over the past couple of days we're looking at a ranging day for today dropping to a low v. soon at the S1 pivot and a long back up to R1 at 1.1939 as the largest move - which I see ties in reasonably well with your system's predictions.

I can't stay up all night so I've placed an order:

Entry: 1.1865
Limit: 1.1926
Stop: 1.1822
 
Last edited:
soccer_daemon said:
Hi guys,

My over-simplistic projected pivots for 16/02/2006 GMT+11:
pivot = 1.1875
H = 1.1938
L = 1.1846
Let me know if this is off topic. :cheesy:

SD


No - not off-topic! That's what we are looking for here, people actually being tactical in their approach for purposes of comparison.

I find that in this business, there is not a lot of routine day-in-day-out trading going on many trading boards. I'm going to keep pumping them out daily in various forms until my work is complete.

I just really had hoped to see some Blade/Apex signals in the "On" position by now. However, my thinking is that the "system" knows better than I, what should be done and when it should be done for the most part - excluding those components still in Beta or going through Certification.

So, thanks for the input. That is exactly the kind of stuff I'm looking for! I assume your modifications are your own, or are they taken from somewhere else?
 
Top