About To Give Up

****, man, you're hella brave in my books for doing something like that. If it works, especially with a huge capital base, then all the more power to you, but damn.

I'd rather stick to known patterns around battle lines, k thx. I don't believe the market is random, but I do believe it has an intent at any given moment, which may fail (i.e. randomness to others). Your job is to go with the winning party at the right moment, which is entirely do-able.
 
:eek: :LOL: So with regard to your system; it makes money in good long term trends taking multiple bites as you say, but what happens when a trend changes? Are you able to get out and prevent giving back all the profits and how does it differentiate between a correction and reversal?

How does your system know when to close a profitable trade? What % of your system success is luck would you estimate? If your system is capable of managing large sums of money and generating strong returns with little drawdown, why not flog it to Goldman Sachs or some hedge fund and make millions?

Its an intra day system, and due to the random nature of the entries, quite often it doesnt do particularly well even in decent trends. It doesnt attempt to differentiate between corrections and reverals. If the trend changes, I lose money. However, my average loser is less than my average winner.

One of the tricks I use is to continually generate multiple theoretical equity curves by resampling my performance history. That at least gives me upper and lower bounds that I expect to see from these systems. If those boundaries are touched (upper OR lower) something is fundementally changing, and I reduce exposure, or stop trading.

I think its probably far to say that most of the logic is focussed on closing losing trades, rather than worrying about winners.

The methodology was originally designed specifically to allow us to scale. The reason I'm not proactively chasing additional capital is that running the current set up is pretty much a full time occupation, I couldnt even envisage how I could free up additional time to deal with chasing additional capital. I'm already in the fortunate position of having access to more capital than I currently wish to trade, at least for the forseable future.

Your question about luck is quite interesting, and something I'm currently struggling with. The number of long and short trades is rarely equally distributed. Sometimes, just by chance, you get more buys occurring in a rising market, or more sells in a falling market. I'd like to think that partially occurs due to my trend bias filters, but I'm honest enough to acknowledge there's a good dose of luck in there too, as the opposite also occurs.

The effects of luck influence every single component part of the system. Opening a trade 15 minutes sooner or later can have a significant impact. Luck effects the money management and position sizing. Simply resampling your performance history will give a good indication of what might have happened.

The worrying thing is that as a discretionary trader, trading a single method, you are totally at the mercy of luck. If you make 100% in a year, you might think great, and commit more capital, or if you lose 50% of your capital you might give up. I'd probably argue that neither outcome is really representative of your true long term edge (which wont be constant either !)
 
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Its an intra day system, and due to the random nature of the entries, quite often it doesnt do particularly well even in decent trends. It doesnt attempt to differentiate between corrections and reverals. If the trend changes, I lose money. However, my average loser is less than my average winner.

One of the tricks I use is to continually generate multiple theoretical equity curves by resampling my performance history. That at least gives me upper and lower bounds that I expect to see from these systems. If those boundaries are touched (upper OR lower) something is fundementally changing, and I reduce exposure, or stop trading.

I think its probably far to say that most of the logic is focussed on closing losing trades, rather than worrying about winners.

The methodology was originally designed specifically to allow us to scale. The reason I'm not proactively chasing additional capital is that running the current set up is pretty much a full time occupation, I couldnt even envisage how I could free up additional time to deal with chasing additional capital. I'm already in the fortunate position of having access to more capital than I currently wish to trade, at least for the forseable future.



so, basicaly, like, if it's going up, punt it long, and of its going down, punt it short, and if you are caught offside too much, close it?
 
so, basicaly, like, if it's going up, punt it long, and of its going down, punt it short, and if you are caught offside too much, close it?

Yes.

The hard part of course that stops most people doing it is determining if its going up or down. They look at one timeframe and its going up, they look at another and its going down. A key part of the strategy is working out which trend you are actually trying to exploit. Once you've worked that one out, identifying trend gets a bit easier :LOL:

Then you have the problem of quantifying how much is offside "too much"

But yeah, once you have that worked out, its exactly as you describe, I struggle to see how else you could do it really ?
 
Yes.

The hard part of course that stops most people doing it is determining if its going up or down. They look at one timeframe and its going up, they look at another and its going down. A key part of the strategy is working out which trend you are actually trying to exploit. Once you've worked that one out, identifying trend gets a bit easier :LOL:

Then you have the problem of quantifying how much is offside "too much"

But yeah, once you have that worked out, its exactly as you describe, I struggle to see how else you could do it really ?

Your last few posts here offer a nice bit of insight into your trading method (y)

Peter
 
In essence, the hare's right, though there are IF's that determine profitability.

If you can usually identify the direction of price movement for the period you will hold a position and if you can usually identify a reasonable price change after which to take profits or after which to stop out, and especially if your reward is significantly better than your risk per trade, you will make a profit. As long as your money management doesn't allow you to get wiped out before that point. This is all trading is.
 
Hi Pipsaholic,

From your post, it seems that it is your emotion-discipline-money management issue. Stay with your method if it work.

Make sure you know your plan well, no trade means no trade, do not force your trade. Example for me, I have not been trading since last week till now and looking at the majors, all of them are in wedging pattern with no trend at all. As my system require trend, I just stay sideway, go to gym, go running, whatever you like to do except trading.

just my 2 cents.
 
In essence, the hare's right, though there are IF's that determine profitability.

If you can usually identify the direction of price movement for the period you will hold a position and if you can usually identify a reasonable price change after which to take profits or after which to stop out, and especially if your reward is significantly better than your risk per trade, you will make a profit. As long as your money management doesn't allow you to get wiped out before that point. This is all trading is.

utter bollox m8.
 
Asking other people to give you hope and support on an internet forum is such a sign of weakness. We're all (more or less) complete strangers to each other, so the idea that you can be spurred on by the thoughts and opinions of people you've never met and don't know you just highlights what a fragile mentality you have. Of course we all have doubts at some stage of our trading career, and our friends and family may not approve of what we're doing either, but that shouldn't matter because you're the only person who ultimately decides whether you should carry on or not based on your own assessment of whether you've got what it takes to succeed.


(^ I know this response was a bit rude, but I would rather give an honest answer than give false hope)
 
Asking other people to give you hope and support on an internet forum is such a sign of weakness. We're all (more or less) complete strangers to each other, so the idea that you can be spurred on by the thoughts and opinions of people you've never met and don't know you just highlights what a fragile mentality you have. Of course we all have doubts at some stage of our trading career, and our friends and family may not approve of what we're doing either, but that shouldn't matter because you're the only person who ultimately decides whether you should carry on or not based on your own assessment of whether you've got what it takes to succeed.


(^ I know this response was a bit rude, but I would rather give an honest answer than give false hope)

Ello 'ard knock. Are you going after Black Swans role as swinging hairy balls of the site? I'd say even posting on this kind of forum is a sign of weakness but if you need to use this kind of logic to affirm your own ego by putting someone else down...
 
I wasn't trying to affirm my own ego by putting him down and I wasn't trying to be confrontational with anybody (jeez what's with T2W nowadays?).

All I was saying is that in my opinion a trader shouldn't be somebody who needs to seek support from other people (strangers on a internet forum/family and friends) in order to persevere when the going gets tough. I just think successful traders are very determined and strong people, who would have succeeded due to factors within themselves regardless of whether they had a support network around them.

And as for my ego, I can tell you that I'm not a successful trader at all, I lost some money at the start of my trading career and as a result I've been demo trading and researching for around 1.5 years. So in many ways I'm even more unsuccessful than the OP.
 
The worrying thing is that as a discretionary trader, trading a single method, you are totally at the mercy of luck. If you make 100% in a year, you might think great, and commit more capital, or if you lose 50% of your capital you might give up. I'd probably argue that neither outcome is really representative of your true long term edge (which wont be constant either !)

(n)

Don't agree with this at all, discretionary trading has ZERO to do with luck and everything to do with understanding what is what, and what is not.
 
(n)

Don't agree with this at all, discretionary trading has ZERO to do with luck and everything to do with understanding what is what, and what is not.

I'm still undecided. I spent a lot of time trading a discretionary method, and did perfectly OK. I'd really like to think that it was down to experience, but there was always that nagging doubt in my mind that I was simply experiencing a run of good luck.

Thats when I started researching random systems. Frankly I was horrified to discover that even something as dumb as a coin toss can return perfectly acceptable equity curves. I met and worked with a couple of very successful traders who are now retired, and I saw first hand quite phenominal publically audited track records destroyed in both cases.

Then I took a closer look at what tended to happen to traders with exceptionally good consitant multi year returns. You guessed it, time after time, multi year consistant gains suddenly stopped. Then you look at the probabilities associated with this stuff, and you realise that there should be significantly more people doing way better than they are.

The sort of habits developed by successful traders tend to be the similar, and they probably think in similar ways, but their beliefs often dont stand up to rigorous scrutiny.

I know what my edge is, and why it works, but the reality is that its no more valid than some shmuck trading a MA cross during a period when the markets are trending. Its just a mental model that happens to be in phase with the way the market is behaving.

Personally I wasnt prepared to risk an awful lot of time and money on the possibility of being a statistical outlier.
 
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