90% of traders fail? Who says?

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black swan, I disagree with you. starting with £1000 you are over leveraged even at £1pp on some instruments. eg. Oil - with only 30 point stop you will be looking at lower timeframe charts and will get stopped out much more often. suddenly your £1000 is £800 etc.... all depends on yr trading style.

if you can start with £1000 and make a living from it then on you go
 
advfntrader said:
black swan, I disagree with you. starting with £1000 you are over leveraged even at £1pp on some instruments. eg. Oil - with only 30 point stop you will be looking at lower timeframe charts and will get stopped out much more often. suddenly your £1000 is £800 etc.... all depends on yr trading style.

if you can start with £1000 and make a living from it then on you go
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I don't think anyone was actually talking about making a living from such an account size were they? I thought the point at issue was whether one could start there and build it up decently. The point at issue being what is the "critical mass" of a trading account needed to get it into fissionable state, if I can put it in those terms.

You, advfntrader, think it's 10k, and Black Swan thinks it's 1k.
 
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montmorencyt2w said:
I don't think anyone was actually talking about making a living from such an account size were they? I thought the point at issue was whether one could start there and build it up decently. The point at issue being what it the "critical mass" of a trading account needed to get it into fissionable state, if I can put it in those terms.

You, advfntrader, think it's 10k, and Black Swan thinks it's 1k.
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Hi Mike, ADVN,
Quite simply I fundamentally disagree that you need a minimum of £10K in order to trade successfully; particularly trading in the manner most day traders/swing traders do on forex or SB. Further, IMHO any new trader is best engaging with the markets in stages, perhaps over 6 months, whilst matching it to further investment thereafter only if he/she enjoys any level of success.

At no stage have I implied you only need a grand to trade full time, however, the stages I would suggest for new traders would be 500 quid betting no more than 50p per pip, then 1 grand betting no more than £1 pp. If this account equity grows then perhaps the level of trades could be compounded and only then would I suggest imputing more cash into the account; perhaps another 2K. IMHO a total account size of 3K is all that's needed (for a new or intermediate trader) in order to day trade forex and/or SB.

I fully accept if you're going to position trade, or buy options, or ETF's etc then this needs adjusting, but for the simple Northern bloke I am and at the level of development I'm at this can wait.

FWIW this is me; trade mainly of 1 hour charts, take approx ten-twelve trades per day (24 hours) across 6/7 currency pairs/1 or 2 indices. 6-8 win 4-5 lose. Winners av. net retained 30-35 pip, losers 25. My max exposure rarely exceeds a grand, (I always use a stop) and my worst day ever was a loss of 180 quid, and that was when (although not new to trading) I was v. raw and moving over to become a full time day trader.

We can only really speak from our personal experiences I am now consistently profitable, and honestly do not need ten grand committed to the market, or 5K committed and the rest as a 'backstop'.

I will however be moving up to the full fxcm account where the level of deposit to 'sit at the table' is 25K, but TBH I'll be doing that 'cos I'm developing a mean streak, It''ll cost less and the L2 data will move me on, but I don't have to do that in order to become profitable, it's simply the most professional opportunity/solution out there IMHO. :)
 
Well maybe this was true very long time ago the 90% thing. But with the flexibility to trade today with all these new technologies it surely depends on the individual. One who works hard nad does his/her homework, with all the great tools, and fast, live platforms anybody be an achiever.

90% is just a crazy talk I don't know wether its used for marketing strategies, or to scare newbies.
But I am little concerned because like they say "you repeat a lie 1000 times it will eventually become the truth". My advise to all the traders out there, just avoid these kinds of negativity, and do your best you will be rewarded in the end.
 
I know that there are countless ways to trade for real money, but I will share what I have done for any new traders, because it has worked for me so far. I only trade forex and started by learning on the free courses from broker sites and buying some trading books until I knew what kind of trader I wanted to be, which is mostly technical with some intraday fundamentals like economic calendar announcements. Then I traded a free practice account, which almost every forex broker will set you up with no strings atattched. (I actually had 4 different practice accounts at one time so I could decide which brokers and software I liked the best.) Then I opened a real micro account which is available with a lot of brokers and that is 10 cents a pip instead of $1 or $10. It gave me a chance to feel the emotions of using real money without a huge risk. I am still using the micro account and as the capitol grows I keep increasing the amount of lots I trade.
 
90% "failure" is a pretty sound percentage of folk who fail in any start up business, not just trading.
Remember, failure is just a word to describe lack of knowledge and persistence.:cheesy:
 
Not necessarily
of course don t trade with 100$
but not necessarily 10K
if you go slow and you know the market u can earn properly.

advfntrader said:
unless you have minimum £10k don't even bother, you are undercapitalised and wasting your time. it took me a long time to realise this
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I guess that was my point in a long winded way. if anyone is willing to put in lot's of hard work and not give up then they certainly can be in the small minority of successful traders, whatever that number may be. And they don't need a large amount of capitol to do it. BTW, I definitely think no one can really know what the percent of failure is, 90% is just someone's educated guess.
 
gamma said:
Doing a google search comes up a lot of "why 90% of traders fail "and then there is some selling like you mention. I nearly become one of the 90% until I found the XYZ system
It certainly does not show any concrete evidence of failure numbers
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xyz posts sites are operated by bucket's traders.
 
tomorton said:
I think clorets is right - many people coming into trading are mentally unprepared to lose anything on even one trade. Whether its admission of bad judgement or the unsavoury parallel this creates with gambling or just their social conditioning might vary from case to case. Trading is not for conservative people.
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The evidence is there on the free internet , there are simple free set and forget profitable methods ,systems and techniques , yet 95% fail and dissapear.

Taders don't understand the mind ,how it works subconciously in trading , the traders can not have any plans for the 90% risk of underperformance due to psychology.It is with the mind where traders lose in trading due to emotions ,stress , need to be right , subconcious emotional executions ,mind traps , automatic mind in trading , beliefs in trading , subconcious errors , brain command centre shutdown during trading , brain freezing in trade executions ,the power the thought , negative wiring of human brain and it's performance in trading ,meditation , unreality reading of the real market conditions,cognitive biases in trading decisions , mental traps , benefits of patience and disadvantages of impatient traders , impulsivity , self sabotage in trading executions , stress responses , amygdala hijackings ,personality , ego and other psyche charecteristics.

I can give you at least profitable trading methods to avoid 90 % or 95% club.
 
I would say that many looses in forex trading and some looses more while chasing that lost money, and only those becomes successful in forex who let go these losses and keep moving forward.
 
foroom lluzers said:
The forums have professionals , bank traders , hedge fund managers , trend traders , professional scalpers , price action trendies and lulz merchants for entertainment.
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Retail traders are not able to trade and make a profit using the same strategies as any large organization does. That also means that trading institutions are not able to use strategies that have proven successful for retail traders and the main reason is size of transaction. There have been a number of continually successful retail traders that have been members of Trade2Win over the years.

Many no longer post but are still successful and some used to post live trades as well as explain in detail how their strategy was successful. Psychology had little to do with those who made money on a continual basis and it was not small amounts they were making. Whether this is believed or not doesn't matter, I have no agenda and there were many live witnesses to the day in and day out success that these guys had.
 
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