90% Fail????

[cofton]

Hi all

I have read this thread with interest and just wanted to contribute something which may interest T2W members.
Some time ago a colleague who is a very successful trader sent me an email which I have posted below. When I first read it I didn't quite 'get it'. When I did eventually understand it changed my way of thinking. Maybe it will help newbies and inspire them and maybe trading veterans will agree or let us know their thoughts..... Anyway, here it is :

'Successful trading isn’t about learning anyone’s system and just trading it.
Successful trading is actually about making a profit every single month and then
repeating what you did every following month. And that is how trading becomes
successful trading.
So it’s not about the win you had today or the loss you had yesterday, it’s actually
about the Lego Principle, or: building lots of small things to make something big and
meaningful at the end.
Perhaps you will be reading this with some impatience as all you want to do is get to
your trading charts and trade. But if you take the time to read this then you might just
succeed where the other 95% of traders fail.
Today I made a loss but do I care ? Not one little bit ! Just like if I had a bag full of
sweets and I lost a few through a hole in the packet. At the end of the day I would still
have some sweets left and I would be content with that fact.
Trading is just like that sweets analogy. And you may spend the rest of your life trying
to find a trading system which has the best Entry signal and the best Exit signal in the
world, but you still could lose ! Many people do !
So every day that you DO make a profit, this is what you HAVE to do: Accept that
profit even if it’s only very small, switch off your trading system and then DON’T trade
again until tomorrow. Can you do this ? I wonder if you can ?
Because when you CAN do this then you are keeping one extra sweet for your
packet instead of losing one. And if you keep repeating this then you will end up with
a reasonably full bag of sweets at the end of every month.
Quite simply, people who cannot do this lose at trading. It’s that simple !
But the world of trading forums and brokers fill your mind with: “you need this
indicator and you need that system”. Well take it from me as someone who knows:
“what you really need is to be able to stop trading every single day IF you have made
a profit” – Period !
No sneaking back to your charts two hours later to: “just have a quick look”, because
that is your mind trying to get you to open another trade – and if you give into that
then you will lose the profit you made earlier in the day; guaranteed !
So successful trading is about YOU and whether you can resist your own temptation
to just: “have another quick look” at the charts.
Many people start trading and they believe that it’s an exciting thing or even an Ego
thing to brag to their friends and family about.
But quite frankly, telling your friends and family: “I trade the financial markets” is
nothing like as good as telling them: “I make a profit trading the financial markets” !
And to become a successful trader you have to realise one MAJOR thing. And that
one thing couldn’t be better explained than this expression that I picked up many
years ago: “Trading Is Boring – Keep It That Way !”
The day when you know what that means is the day you will be trading profitably.
So if you really want to succeed at trading then copy that expression and put it close
to your PC:
Trading Is Boring – Keep It That Way !'

Ever since I read the above I changed my mindset. If you read the last bit I think it might equate 'keeping it boring' to controlling your emotions and emotions make trading hard work and stressful. If something is boring then it isn't emotional, it isn't stressful and therefore you won't have any fear. 'No fear' allows us to continue to trade whether or not we won our previous trade or not. Food for thought I think
Just my opion for what it is worth.

Be Happy

Cofton

 

[imranmir1]

coftom, what an excellent post. Thanks. I read it twice.

I have been asking this time and again...Is the present financial scenario a good time to get into trading? I have been told that there is nothing like a 'good period' to enter the trading world as you can make money even during recession, inflation, stockmarket crashes etc etc. as there is volatility at all time. Only a very experienced trader can survive bad economic times with what Lehman Bros failing etc..BUT for a newbie there got to be a 'favourable time' to venture into trading, especially futures trading, which I intend to take up very soon, by the end of Sept. Looking forward to some insightful inputs. Regards.

 

[jamescummins]

A 'good' period would certainly be a massive bull market in whatever you trade. If you started trading oil 2 years ago and hadnt made a sackload of money by this summer, you were probably doing the wrong job!!
I would have thought though that all you really want as a trader is volatility, which there could hardly have been any more of, and liquidity, which is generally very good unless you are trading specific products which hardly any independant prop traders would like cdo's etc.
Overall, it is a function of the market you want to trade in my view, but, traders make money is any market if they are good... It is not just highly experienced traders that survive economic downturns IMHO - you jsut need to be trading the right product. With so much negativity in banking stocks, credit crunch blah blah, you just need to be trading gold for example - and then just sit back and wait for the flight to quality...

 

[new_trader]

coftom, what an excellent post. Thanks. I read it twice.

I have been asking this time and again...Is the present financial scenario a good time to get into trading? I have been told that there is nothing like a 'good period' to enter the trading world as you can make money even during recession, inflation, stockmarket crashes etc etc. as there is volatility at all time. Only a very experienced trader can survive bad economic times with what Lehman Bros failing etc..BUT for a newbie there got to be a 'favourable time' to venture into trading, especially futures trading, which I intend to take up very soon, by the end of Sept. Looking forward to some insightful inputs. Regards.

Trading is simply a matter of finding the easiest instrument to trade and then only trading it during the most favourable periods. The reason 90% fail is because those idiots trade the hard instruments during the most unfavourable periods...idiots.

 

[Hoggums]

Very amusing thread on ET.

"90% of banks fail"

 

[imranmir1]

What about the german bund futures? I think thats what it is called...'i see you guys laughing aloud' at me...Please feel free to make fun of me...I deserve it, I guess but frankly, the comments in this forum have been very informative. The company I would be joining would train me on a simulator before I trade with the real money and it would be the German Government Bond. What would be a good website to get more info on this. Thanks alot in advance.

 

[rols]

Trading is simply a matter of finding the easiest instrument to trade and then only trading it during the most favourable periods. The reason 90% fail is because those idiots trade the hard instruments during the most unfavourable periods...idiots.

Ah I can see a new educational thread starting here.

I hear the recorder is the easiest instrument but few get past Baa Baa Black Sheep.

Perhaps it is not the choice of instrument or the time it is played which is at fault.

 

[gamma]

A 'good' period would certainly be a massive bull market in whatever you trade.

Aren't we seeing a bull market in the dollar now

 

[cu20052003]

Hi, darling!

Looks like you are just new to the trade!

A succesful one with the trade market is one who is like the commodities trader ( say, a cash crop like cotton, who knows when to plant the crop, maximise the harvest and where to sell the cotton after the processing and minimising the cost of logistics so as to keep the cost down to the consumer! ) and Forex trader( who like a vampire bat knows how tp suck the possible best thick and juiciest patch, eg. Soros! )and bring in the best equipment so that he/ she/ it can do the smoothest and cleanest kill for his trade - talk about ethics ( basically, a trader, a successful one has got to have NONE ) and principles ( he/ she serves only himself/ herself ) ....... etc!

A successful one also makes mistakes sometimes and has to pay with those dearly ( that means to say, he/ she losses and wins sometimes while at other times just managed to even off .......... while successfully planning to execute the next best possible trade with a good opening position to long or short!

A rich one does not mean that he/ she is a successful one, it's just so happened that he/ she got lucky - talk about good Karma here, like winning the lottery! Well, remember it is also about professionalism ( there is also a balance between family time and trading or working time ) 'cos I have seen traders who are SO BLOODY OBSESSIVE 'bout trading that it is like everything to them, cuasing them to neglect their health and family members! Gor ....... ley! A successful one also maintains his wealth, but not to money pinch ( efficient in terms of energy usage and low monetary cost, but not miserly ).

Notice how I differentiate between the extremes? To be successful, One has to go the way of the Middle Path and to avoid the twon ends of the extremes, darling! That's how to be successful and to achieve that, One has to go with the natural flow of things and not be blinded but initial success or gains! Well, you can say that One has to be with Heaven or Comos or for those who are in feng shui or taoism, to flow ith the TAO or Reiki/ Qi and performs in harmony!

The above is the classic of a SUCCESSFUL TRADER - so if you have some of the above mentioned traits, then you might qualify to become One such fine example some time in the far far future!

That's another ONE POUND of what is to be successful!

S K

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi there

Be the One for GOD, so that I may appoint a deliverer for thy SOUL!

HariHaraBramKalki(S K)

360.yahoo.com/cu20052003

Hi all

I have read this thread with interest and just wanted to contribute something which may interest T2W members.
Some time ago a colleague who is a very successful trader sent me an email which I have posted below. When I first read it I didn't quite 'get it'. When I did eventually understand it changed my way of thinking. Maybe it will help newbies and inspire them and maybe trading veterans will agree or let us know their thoughts..... Anyway, here it is :

'Successful trading isn’t about learning anyone’s system and just trading it.
Successful trading is actually about making a profit every single month and then
repeating what you did every following month. And that is how trading becomes
successful trading.
So it’s not about the win you had today or the loss you had yesterday, it’s actually
about the Lego Principle, or: building lots of small things to make something big and
meaningful at the end.
Perhaps you will be reading this with some impatience as all you want to do is get to
your trading charts and trade. But if you take the time to read this then you might just
succeed where the other 95% of traders fail.
Today I made a loss but do I care ? Not one little bit ! Just like if I had a bag full of
sweets and I lost a few through a hole in the packet. At the end of the day I would still
have some sweets left and I would be content with that fact.
Trading is just like that sweets analogy. And you may spend the rest of your life trying
to find a trading system which has the best Entry signal and the best Exit signal in the
world, but you still could lose ! Many people do !
So every day that you DO make a profit, this is what you HAVE to do: Accept that
profit even if it’s only very small, switch off your trading system and then DON’T trade
again until tomorrow. Can you do this ? I wonder if you can ?
Because when you CAN do this then you are keeping one extra sweet for your
packet instead of losing one. And if you keep repeating this then you will end up with
a reasonably full bag of sweets at the end of every month.
Quite simply, people who cannot do this lose at trading. It’s that simple !
But the world of trading forums and brokers fill your mind with: “you need this
indicator and you need that system”. Well take it from me as someone who knows:
“what you really need is to be able to stop trading every single day IF you have made
a profit” – Period !
No sneaking back to your charts two hours later to: “just have a quick look”, because
that is your mind trying to get you to open another trade – and if you give into that
then you will lose the profit you made earlier in the day; guaranteed !
So successful trading is about YOU and whether you can resist your own temptation
to just: “have another quick look” at the charts.
Many people start trading and they believe that it’s an exciting thing or even an Ego
thing to brag to their friends and family about.
But quite frankly, telling your friends and family: “I trade the financial markets” is
nothing like as good as telling them: “I make a profit trading the financial markets” !
And to become a successful trader you have to realise one MAJOR thing. And that
one thing couldn’t be better explained than this expression that I picked up many
years ago: “Trading Is Boring – Keep It That Way !”
The day when you know what that means is the day you will be trading profitably.
So if you really want to succeed at trading then copy that expression and put it close
to your PC:
Trading Is Boring – Keep It That Way !'

Ever since I read the above I changed my mindset. If you read the last bit I think it might equate 'keeping it boring' to controlling your emotions and emotions make trading hard work and stressful. If something is boring then it isn't emotional, it isn't stressful and therefore you won't have any fear. 'No fear' allows us to continue to trade whether or not we won our previous trade or not. Food for thought I think
Just my opion for what it is worth.

Be Happy

Cofton

 

[cofton]

Looks like you are just new to the trade!

A succesful one with the trade market is one who is like the commodities trader ( say, a cash crop like cotton, who knows when to plant the crop, maximise the harvest and where to sell the cotton after the processing and minimising the cost of logistics so as to keep the cost down to the consumer! ) and Forex trader( who like a vampire bat knows how tp suck the possible best thick and juiciest patch, eg. Soros! )and bring in the best equipment so that he/ she/ it can do the smoothest and cleanest kill for his trade - talk about ethics ( basically, a trader, a successful one has got to have NONE ) and principles ( he/ she serves only himself/ herself ) ....... etc!

A successful one also makes mistakes sometimes and has to pay with those dearly ( that means to say, he/ she losses and wins sometimes while at other times just managed to even off .......... while successfully planning to execute the next best possible trade with a good opening position to long or short!

A rich one does not mean that he/ she is a successful one, it's just so happened that he/ she got lucky - talk about good Karma here, like winning the lottery! Well, remember it is also about professionalism ( there is also a balance between family time and trading or working time ) 'cos I have seen traders who are SO BLOODY OBSESSIVE 'bout trading that it is like everything to them, cuasing them to neglect their health and family members! Gor ....... ley! A successful one also maintains his wealth, but not to money pinch ( efficient in terms of energy usage and low monetary cost, but not miserly ).

Notice how I differentiate between the extremes? To be successful, One has to go the way of the Middle Path and to avoid the twon ends of the extremes, darling! That's how to be successful and to achieve that, One has to go with the natural flow of things and not be blinded but initial success or gains! Well, you can say that One has to be with Heaven or Comos or for those who are in feng shui or taoism, to flow ith the TAO or Reiki/ Qi and performs in harmony!

The above is the classic of a SUCCESSFUL TRADER - so if you have some of the above mentioned traits, then you might qualify to become One such fine example some time in the far far future!

That's another ONE POUND of what is to be successful!

S K

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi there

Be the One for GOD, so that I may appoint a deliverer for thy SOUL!

HariHaraBramKalki(S K)

360.yahoo.com/cu20052003

Hi cu20052003

Not quite sure if I understand your post or not, whilst some of your comments have merit I think that success is in the eye of the beholder. Being successful for me is reaching one's goal and we all have different goals.

Religion, biblical terminology, God etc etc has absolutely nothing to do with it. Even if you believe in a particular religion or a particular God it has no relevance whatsoever as most things (especially trading) happen due to cause and effect. In fact everything is cause and effect.

Quote' To be successful, One has to go the way of the Middle Path and to avoid the twon ends of the extremes, darling! That's how to be successful and to achieve that, One has to go with the natural flow of things'

Sorry, cannot agree with any of that. One does not have to take any specific 'path' and most of the successful people I know have never gone with 'the natural flow of things'.

The thing that sets many successful people apart from average people is the fact that they do things differently. They very often do not 'go with the flow', they normally take a different path to the rest of us, they have a vision different to rest of us and (more importantly) they have a different mindset and can never be told 'you can't do that' or 'you will not achieve that because.....'

Successful people in my opinion also reach their goal and then set another goal and another goal, replicating their success is like a drug to them. Most average people reach their goal (if they are lucky) and are content with that.

But at the end of the day what is regarded as success for you may not be success for me, we all have our own interpretation of success and this is why none of us can generalise or define a specific recipe to achieve it.

Two things I know for certain are that (1) there is always a little bit of luck involved (good and bad) and (2) we all make mistakes on the way.

The trick is to embrace good or bad luck and to learn from our mistakes.

Be happy,

Cofton

 

[new_trader]

The thing that sets many successful people apart from average people is the fact that they do things differently. They very often do not 'go with the flow', they normally take a different path to [average people] , they have a vision different to [average people] and (more importantly) they have a different mindset and can never be told 'you can't do that' or 'you will not achieve that because.....'

Successful people in my opinion also reach their goal and then set another goal and another goal, replicating their success is like a drug to them. Most average people reach their goal (if they are lucky) and are content with that.

Very good Cofton... Very good! Although, I didn't like your use of 'us', so I hope you don't mind my edit.

Very good! Very, very good!

 

[cofton]

Very good Cofton... Very good! Although, I didn't like your use of 'us', so I hope you don't mind my edit.

Very good! Very, very good!

Hi new_trader

Yes my apologies, I didn't mean to use the word 'us' as you are quite right it suggests that we are not successful which is a little negative. Slip of the tongue there.

I am intrigued by how anyone becomes successful and I have the utmost admiration for anyone who achieves their goal. Normally for most people success is shown by wealth and materialistic things but I also admire success in the form of being the best at your thing, a sportsman for example, someone who has overcome an illness, someone who spends their life looking after others less fortunate than themselves. These are truly special people.

Glad you liked my post and thank you for your kind words.

Be happy

Cofton

 

[gamma]

Cofton,
Cant rep you but must say brilliant post.

 

[yacarob1]

This thread is called 90% Fail ????

Are we discussing aspiring traders or banks ?

 

[gamma]

This thread is called 90% Fail ????

Are we discussing aspiring traders or banks ?

Good to see someone is trying to steer the thread back!

But I think, you have you work cut out with the MAD MONK(cu20052003) trying to monoplise the thread and convert us all.


( that is steering it back to banks or traders )whichever

 

[BSD]

I have been doing a lot of research on Trading before taking the 'leap', and I have read this at so many places that "90% of traders FAIL". I have no idea about trading but I have never 'failed' at anything I have done so far, so howcome, trading can be so difficult???? Why is it so 'impossible' to achieve success at trading? I presume there is a process in place, a research, a strategy to do trading OR is it all LUCK? If it is all luck and nothing is in your hands, then ya, why won't 90% fail. Any coments would be most welcome. Thanks

Just stumbled on this thread right now lol.

One thing I'd recommend is to spend less time wondering what others have or haven't achieved, and instead concentrate your energies more on first defining what you want from life, and then going out and getting it.

I honestly never wondered all too much about how many people make or don't make it in trading, I looked at things the other way round:

There ARE people who made and make it in trading, so my first thought was that if others can consistently do this so can I, and after that initial engagement decision had been taken I went on a discovery tour to seperate the chaff from the wheat, the irrelevant noise from the truly success relevant factors, by simply visiting as many successful traders as I could, finding out what and how they do it, and then from those insights synthesizing a style that fit me and my objectives.

It's all about Stretch goals, in other words, as he called them, that made Jack Welch, CEO of GE, into one of the greatest success stories ever in the corporate universe:

First you define very ambitious targets of what you want, and, after that, the mere fact that you've defined them will release sufficient energy and creativity to get you there and beyond.

Worked for him, works for me.

Good luck !

 

[AgentZ86]

Nice one

Hi all

I have read this thread with interest and just wanted to contribute something which may interest T2W members.
Some time ago a colleague who is a very successful trader sent me an email which I have posted below. When I first read it I didn't quite 'get it'. When I did eventually understand it changed my way of thinking. Maybe it will help newbies and inspire them and maybe trading veterans will agree or let us know their thoughts..... Anyway, here it is :

'Successful trading isn’t about learning anyone’s system and just trading it.
Successful trading is actually about making a profit every single month and then
repeating what you did every following month. And that is how trading becomes
successful trading.
So it’s not about the win you had today or the loss you had yesterday, it’s actually
about the Lego Principle, or: building lots of small things to make something big and
meaningful at the end.
Perhaps you will be reading this with some impatience as all you want to do is get to
your trading charts and trade. But if you take the time to read this then you might just
succeed where the other 95% of traders fail.
Today I made a loss but do I care ? Not one little bit ! Just like if I had a bag full of
sweets and I lost a few through a hole in the packet. At the end of the day I would still
have some sweets left and I would be content with that fact.
Trading is just like that sweets analogy. And you may spend the rest of your life trying
to find a trading system which has the best Entry signal and the best Exit signal in the
world, but you still could lose ! Many people do !
So every day that you DO make a profit, this is what you HAVE to do: Accept that
profit even if it’s only very small, switch off your trading system and then DON’T trade
again until tomorrow. Can you do this ? I wonder if you can ?
Because when you CAN do this then you are keeping one extra sweet for your
packet instead of losing one. And if you keep repeating this then you will end up with
a reasonably full bag of sweets at the end of every month.
Quite simply, people who cannot do this lose at trading. It’s that simple !
But the world of trading forums and brokers fill your mind with: “you need this
indicator and you need that system”. Well take it from me as someone who knows:
“what you really need is to be able to stop trading every single day IF you have made
a profit” – Period !
No sneaking back to your charts two hours later to: “just have a quick look”, because
that is your mind trying to get you to open another trade – and if you give into that
then you will lose the profit you made earlier in the day; guaranteed !
So successful trading is about YOU and whether you can resist your own temptation
to just: “have another quick look” at the charts.
Many people start trading and they believe that it’s an exciting thing or even an Ego
thing to brag to their friends and family about.
But quite frankly, telling your friends and family: “I trade the financial markets” is
nothing like as good as telling them: “I make a profit trading the financial markets” !
And to become a successful trader you have to realise one MAJOR thing. And that
one thing couldn’t be better explained than this expression that I picked up many
years ago: “Trading Is Boring – Keep It That Way !”
The day when you know what that means is the day you will be trading profitably.
So if you really want to succeed at trading then copy that expression and put it close
to your PC:
Trading Is Boring – Keep It That Way !'

Ever since I read the above I changed my mindset. If you read the last bit I think it might equate 'keeping it boring' to controlling your emotions and emotions make trading hard work and stressful. If something is boring then it isn't emotional, it isn't stressful and therefore you won't have any fear. 'No fear' allows us to continue to trade whether or not we won our previous trade or not. Food for thought I think
Just my opion for what it is worth.

Be Happy

Cofton

Hi,
Nice post

I agree with this 100%
I think the take profit and leave the charts factor is a good topic. If you can't do that I believe this is due to fear, and greed. Looking back over your shoulder on what you might missout on or fear of not being able to recover your losses for that day.

I have set trading times, 8-12noon and it's working well.
I do have urge to glance back at the charts I must say very tempting to trade, however overtime I've made a rule and wrote it down.

I think alongside of your post perhaps, could be for people to make a rule and write it down, so they can go back or perhaps look at it daily to be sure they stick to their own rules. Of course if the strategy does not hold then you could change the rule, but not every day or month, make a rule and stick with it for a month or so. So you can see the results and track your progress.

Anyhow excellent post

 

[imranmir1]

Well well...I am the proud 'trader-to-be' who started this thread, which has sofar got over 100 comments...most of which have been very informative for me and others as well...EXCEPT this religion bit...I am not a religious person but it is religion which keeps us going in life, and become succesful traders. For peace in the world, it is important to have religious tolerence...but what we have is hatred for each other on the basis of ones religion...what a shame!!! And in all this, the traders suffer...If we all loved and respected each other, 9/11, Iraq war, 7/7, etc etc would never have happened and the traders would have prospered. Good luck to all.

 

[nine]

And can we get back on topic. This sort of rubbish doesn't belong on a trading board - even in the first steps section.

 

[jimbob42]

I agree