100 % per annum from trading.

[thos]

Zonebourse.com have achieved 120% without use of margin and after commission in 2009 on their 'Portefeuille Trader Réel'. They report immediately, so I know their results are pukka.

I subscribed so I could learn from their timing, but their greatest returns have come from early morning breakouts (which has also given them their biggest losses) and that is too high a risk strategy for me. They have also managed to consistently lose money since I subscribed!

 

[D70]

ODT,
Have you included in your calculations that if you have 100,000 say. You have 100,000........
Hedge funds give their returns on that amount of money, not 100,000 then levered up to act like 1,000,000.

Most spreadbetter punters have 1,000 dollars but lever it up so they are effectively trading 100,000 and then tell you they made 100% when they get to 2,000 dollars..... i usualy sigh and walk away at that point..........

Plus, most "respectable" hedge funds wont allow for a 20% drawdown. Most cut you off at the ankles when you get to 5%.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[oildaytrader]

ODT,
Have you included in your calculations that if you have 100,000 say. You have 100,000........
Hedge funds give their returns on that amount of money, not 100,000 then levered up to act like 1,000,000.

Most spreadbetter punters have 1,000 dollars but lever it up so they are effectively trading 100,000 and then tell you they made 100% when they get to 2,000 dollars..... i usualy sigh and walk away at that point..........

Plus, most "respectable" hedge funds wont allow for a 20% drawdown. Most cut you off at the ankles when you get to 5%.

Hope that makes sense.

Total returns are on total non leveraged capital.

The 5 % drawdown sounds pretty low, it can't be the expected drawdowns in a worst case scenario.

Most of the expected drawdowns are around 10% , but the average exceeded over 18 % in 2008.

http://www.djindexes.com/mdsidx/downloads/articles/HedgeDrawdowns.pdf

http://www.hedgeindex.com/hedgeindex/documents/CS Tremont Q3 2009 Market Update_Final.pdf

The 20 % I am using for the worst case scenario for ordinary traders should be considered pretty respectable.

O D T

 

[shadowninja]

Don't see the problem with 500% even with the proverbial 2% being risked. Say you identified a trendline to buy off and every day it bounced off it and headed north for 200 pips because that's just how the market happened to behave for 6 months (some might call it lucky but profitable trading and luck are not related). So with £100 and risking £2 per trade with a 50 pip stop, never actually being touched, you'd get £8 back per trade for the every trade. Of course, the next 6 months might not give you any decent trades. The markets are always changing so it isn't impossible.

 

[oildaytrader]

Don't see the problem with 500% even with the proverbial 2% being risked. Say you identified a trendline to buy off and every day it bounced off it and headed north for 200 pips because that's just how the market happened to behave for 6 months (some might call it lucky but profitable trading and luck are not related). So with £100 and risking £2 per trade with a 50 pip stop, never actually being touched, you'd get £8 back per trade for the every trade. Of course, the next 6 months might not give you any decent trades. The markets are always changing so it isn't impossible.

The sign of a true professional is consistency in earnings ,year after year.

We are looking for traders living off his game.It is possible to make money regularly from the market.

 

[shadowninja]

I thought you were looking at potential returns. The point is, I can't see why >100% isn't possible on a consistent basis.

 

[oildaytrader]

I thought you were looking at potential returns. The point is, I can't see why >100% isn't possible on a consistent basis.

The problem is ,most of us can't see how >100 % is possible on a consistent basis.A trader must have the finest systems and method to achieve it.

Maybe something will lead us to the holy grail.>100% consistently = billionaire.

 

[shadowninja]

Well, even <100% consistently will make you lots over time. It's being able to stop the losses hurting you that'll mean you're up overall. And knowing when to stay out if the market is giving you less than favourable conditions.

 

[oildaytrader]

Well, even <100% consistently will make you lots over time. It's being able to stop the losses hurting you that'll mean you're up overall. And knowing when to stay out if the market is giving you less than favourable conditions.

200 % a year is very easy.

Achieve 100 pips a month and compound it every month by 10 %.A trader starts with 1 lot and reinvests the profit in trading lots .Result = 200% .

 

[Prawnsandwich]

Maybe the poll should be what is your actual % return averaged over last couple of years instead of what is expected or think might be achievable ?

 

[zupcon]

200 % a year is very easy.

One of the current T2W advisors was claiming gains of 100% per week so it must be true

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/tra...10-20-per-week-trading-forex.html#post1008582

 

[oildaytrader]

Maybe the poll should be what is your actual % return averaged over last couple of years instead of what is expected or think might be achievable ?

It may not make any difference.My returns for 2009 were actual 30 % , therefore I ticked
30 to 100%.My expectancy for 2010 is about 55% without compounding.

Most of the big money may be on their yachts and too busy to post.

 

[oildaytrader]

One of the current T2W advisors was claiming gains of 100% per week so it must be true

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/tra...10-20-per-week-trading-forex.html#post1008582

Comedians!

 

[zupcon]

Comedians!

His thread was also allocated "best thread" status

 

[Black Swan]

His thread was also allocated "best thread" status

Those 'forum guides' know fook all....

 

[Prawnsandwich]

It may not make any difference.My returns for 2009 were actual 30 % , therefore I ticked
30 to 100%.My expectancy for 2010 is about 55% without compounding.

Most of the big money may be on their yachts and too busy to post.

Fair enough...though big difference between 30% and 100%...

Also some respondants might base responses on what is theoretically possible rather than actual past performance....

 

[Mike Broudy]

I have recently theorized that better returns are had by avoiding large losses through carefully placed trades that utilize very small stop orders, as opposed to an evenly or calculated disbursement of risks from low risk to "home-run hopefuls." By minimizing loss, you do not also minimize profit. Yet many people try for home runs because it seems that this is how you would logically make the most money. Additionally, it adds the elements of excitement and hope. Two big "no-no's" in rational trading.

 

[oildaytrader]

I have recently theorized that better returns are had by avoiding large losses through carefully placed trades that utilize very small stop orders, as opposed to an evenly or calculated disbursement of risks from low risk to "home-run hopefuls." By minimizing loss, you do not also minimize profit. Yet many people try for home runs because it seems that this is how you would logically make the most money. Additionally, it adds the elements of excitement and hope. Two big "no-no's" in rational trading.

Better returns are achieved by taking higher risks and getting a bit of luck,many rode their luck to achieve higher returns.

Very small stop order methods fails when volatility increases,stops get hit more frequently,traders' confidence goes unless trader has a good re-entry plan for noise stop outs.After a stop out it becomes mentally difficult to re-enter.

 

[Splitlink]

spot on....

plus, if I was making 20% per month on a £5k account and this grew to a £100k account I think it would be inevitable that I would intentionally reduce this return to 10% to half the risk...because 10% return would be acceptable in ££ terms for lower risk on this account size...if you get my meaning (it's all relative)

Which goes to show that porcentages and absolute amounts should be used together. I say "together" because porcentages show us how much risk we are assuming to obtain the actual figure.

A professional bookmaker, seeing a trader going for 100%, and winning, would know that it was only a short matter of time before the trader would lose the lot, if he kept to the same trading policy. The point is that the market has so much more to play with than we do and can be patient.

 

[Splitlink]

One of the current T2W advisors was claiming gains of 100% per week so it must be true

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/tra...10-20-per-week-trading-forex.html#post1008582

That's how they got the job. BS baffles brains. If Buffet and Soros did that,they would have had more than the US treasury decades ago.