Spread betting, a viable option to make a living out of?

[Paul71]

Whether you are percieved as a gambler or a trader by the snobs and the loud mouths, whether you trade spread betting or direct market, none of it is important. if you are a trader, all that matters is the end result, the profit.


Amen.

 

[oildaytrader]

The number of trades a week depends on system and trading technique, not on whether a trader is or isnt clueless.

.

Mr M B Trading

Are you the same as MBTRADING THE BROKERS?

It is certainly not in the broker's interests if traders learnt how to trade 2 to 3 times a week, big loss of spreads from 40*3 = 120 pips to 2 *3=6 pips = equals 114 pips loss of spreads per week.

It really doesn't matter if a trader makes 5 trades or 200 trades a week, it is what the trader is comfortable with and what suits his trading style , and it makes a profit at the end of the week.

I was merely giving Black Swan a run for his money.

The fun has ended.

 

[mbtrading]

Mr M B Trading

Are you the same as MBTRADING THE BROKERS?

It is certainly not in the broker's interests if traders learnt how to trade 2 to 3 times a week, big loss of spreads from 40*3 = 120 pips to 2 *3=6 pips = equals 114 pips loss of spreads per week.

It really doesn't matter if a trader makes 5 trades or 200 trades a week, it is what the trader is comfortable with and what suits his trading style , and it makes a profit at the end of the week.

I was merely giving Black Swan a run for his money.

The fun has ended.

No I am not, it happens to be my initials.

MBTrading are American , I , as I clearly state, am based here in the UK.

As for the comments, I think that any reputable dealer has enough clients that whether an individual is trading 5 times or 50 times a week is insignificant to them.

I for one would not risk a sizable amount of capital with a company worried about whether I would give them 30 or 100 points spread per month, because their operating margins would have to be astronomically small for it to be an issue.

 

[tomorton]

The way you guys are thinking , next the local shopkeeper will be considered a gambler.



If a shopkeeper agrees to pay rent,rates,insurance,staff wages etc and ends the year on loss , he too will be considered a gambler.

period.

Yes, you have said it, that's exactly what I am suggesting. The shopkeeper being defined as a gambler isn't dependent on him making a loss (or for that matter a huge profit). He puts at risk certain resources in a process of uncertain outcome in the hope of obtaining a profit. That's gambling. Even if he makes a steady and modest income, he's still gambling.

I think you're seeing the term as derogatory, identifying a type of financial player who speculates on an irrational basis and runs excessive risk. That would be a bad gambler (or trader, whichever way you look at it). But its implortant for the reasons I outlined earlier that even successful investors, even LTBH Warren Buffets, have the self-perception to realise they are still gambling.

 

[Alexbabwa]

unless you are God, he doesn't need stops.

hahaha

I lost/missed out on trades on Friday that could have, should have netted me 200+ pips...I bagged other trades, circa 200 pip movements, throughout the week. Average pip retention (on the winners) was 46. Last week I took 42 trades..across 10 pairs..Repeat and rinse this week would make for a great month....

Thats a lot of pairs to be trading, i can only just keep up with one Friday was a great day for trading, glad i caught it.

You should try my latest invention ( it is still not released).It removes the stress before putting any trades, it manages the trade i.e opens,closes,moves stops,trailing stops,applies progressive betting option,traders are not stuck to the screen,it monitors prices every few milliseconds,and it consistently guarantees a regular income ( 2 months maximum losing period) of 30 to 40 % a year.

With this new tool a trader can spend his time looking for entries on multiple instruments i.e 15 to 20 currency pairs,oil,dax,shares etc.The software will do everything else.

All traders has to do is find entries with a 50/50 hit rate and load the software.The software does the rest.

I just lost all respect for you

 

[cuotes]

So, after 85 posts we're unable to decide whether it is possible to make a living from SB

Lesson: every person is unique and different.
A is capable of making money where B can't do a single euro, and B makes money where A is unable.

All different, all the same

 

[oildaytrader]

hahaha



Thats a lot of pairs to be trading, i can only just keep up with one Friday was a great day for trading, glad i caught it.



I just lost all respect for you

I had none for u start with.

Just cause I designed an auto trade manager ?Looks like I need to go to a lower level of threads.Bye Bye

 

[Alexbabwa]

Yeah, but iv'e heard some interesting opinions (as well as bull) so im glad i asked

 

[Alexbabwa]

Please don't feel bad

 

[oildaytrader]

Yeah, but iv'e heard some interesting opinions (as well as bull) so im glad i asked

Alexbabwa

What I say is what I am.There was no bull is no bull

Here are today's testing trades on demo , all trades done by the autotrader. about 85 points profit today

 

[tomorton]

So, after 85 posts we're unable to decide whether it is possible to make a living from SB

Lesson: every person is unique and different.
A is capable of making money where B can't do a single euro, and B makes money where A is unable.

All different, all the same

No, we have decided, in fact so far its 2:1 for SB v DMA. This doesn't prove anything except that both methods are possible. If you can make them work.

 

[Black Swan]

You're simply confirming that you're utterly clueless and totally misguiding novice forex traders, position trading looks great with 20:20 hindsight and a rear view mirror. , your 2-3 trades per year strat. is a nonsense.

I was merely clarifying the difference between trading and gambling.

There aren't 40 trades to be had in a week. unless trader is clueless.

Even my automated systems only have an average of three trades per day on FX.Some weeks they take on 4 to 5 trades , and they got more clues how to trade.[/QUOTE]

Really? OK whatever...:whistling

 

[oildaytrader]

I was merely clarifying the difference between trading and gambling.

There aren't 40 trades to be had in a week. unless trader is clueless.

Even my automated systems only have an average of three trades per day on FX.Some weeks they take on 4 to 5 trades , and they got more clues how to trade.

Really? OK whatever...:whistling[/QUOTE]

I just wanted to argue with you for the sake of it.:

REALLY My manual trades could average 10 a day ,thats on oil,dax and 17 currency pairs.It is all intra day trading , but with the the help of auto trade manager.No swing trading.

 

[montmorencyt2w]

Unfortunately ,this belief is the very reason why 95% lose money.Spreadbetting and the gambler's fallacies are related subjects , there is no way to convince the addicted.

My own tests conduced over 8 years of data on all major pairs revealed no swing strategy on forex has ever survived THE TEST OF TIME.

Facts: All swing traders losts consistently in forex in 2002 and 2003 .They are all in forex cemetry.

Go give me another fallacy. You can B S the amateurs.

O D T

But did your tests allow for the discretionary element (could they allow for it)? If one was really trading over an 8 year period and had been consistently successful for any length of time, then one would surely have learned enough about the markets to override any mechanical swing system which you might be able to backtest?

Having said that, with all due respect to him, the fact that Black Swan has been profitable for a year or so does not necessarily that he still will be in a year's time. He needs to make sure that his edge is still keen during and after all that time.

 

[montmorencyt2w]

So far we only have two visitors who claim a living income from SB. Any more takers?

For that matter, does anyone wish to claim a living income from their DMA?

Yes, I'd be much more interested in those replies actually, plus a realistic assessment of how honest all these DMA brokers actually are. There seems to be a universal idea here (on T2W generally I mean) that while the majority of SB firms are crooks, if you go DMA you are somehow automatically protected against being rooked. Seems a bit simplistic to me.

 

[oildaytrader]

But did your tests allow for the discretionary element (could they allow for it)? If one was really trading over an 8 year period and had been consistently successful for any length of time, then one would surely have learned enough about the markets to override any mechanical swing system which you might be able to backtest?

Having said that, with all due respect to him, the fact that Black Swan has been profitable for a year or so does not necessarily that he still will be in a year's time. He needs to make sure that his edge is still keen during and after all that time.

Discretionary rules /elements can not be backtested , but if market becomes choppy ie low daily range ,failed trends , no momentum etc is enough history to suggest swing trading failed miserable in those years.One day up and next day down situation, followed by the same.

Discretionary traders maker more mistakes than automated systems

I have seen many traders having a lucky year and market conditions suited to trader.

 

[montmorencyt2w]

As a matter of fact my entry criteria kept me out of many a good trade.

As they say, being flat is also a position.

 

[julieb]

I am working on a demo and will go live in the new year. I am a single parent working part time and i hope that I will be able to make an extra income from spread betting.

I know someone who works for a spread betting company and they have lots of clients making lots of money as well as loosing.

Sure thing is if you don't try you will never know as long as you set your stops and know how much you are prepared to loose on a trade.

 

[montmorencyt2w]

Discretionary rules /elements can not be backtested ,

Precisely, hence one reason to distrust backtesting.
There are several reasons to distrust demo trading also, although I think it does have its place; just don't assume live trading will turn out the same.

but if market becomes choppy ie low daily range ,failed trends , no momentum etc is enough history to suggest swing trading failed miserable in those years.One day up and next day down situation, followed by the same.

Anyone who can swing trade should also know how to range-trade. That's part of the discretionary element.

Discretionary traders maker more mistakes than automated systems

Automation takes the emotion out of it, and "silly" mistakes (like hitting "buy" when you meant "sell" etc). However, an automated system is only as good as the person who programmed it.

I have seen many traders having a lucky year and market conditions suited to trader.

I agree with you there. It is all too easy to mistake good luck for trading genius.

 

[Black Swan]

Whatever Oily...Looking at the average if I take 40 (in a week), 20 are winners ten scratch and ten losers...on my set up/edge I have to operate that way otherwise the probabilities get messed up...Other than the mad USD action just witnessed, in which I've finally learnt you have to just take a punt and fill your boots, I tend not to detour. I know I could trade better, that'll come with time I'm sure...