Spread betting, a viable option to make a living out of?

[mbtrading]

If you are a good designer you can create systems for dynamic markets,obviously most programmers and traders are not good designers.

So you are saying you have developed advanced artificial intelligence that can adapt to completely new market behaviour that has never before been seen?

Why are you not working at NASA?

You have absolutely no proof of me having sold anything.

Show me a receipt of sales or retract!

if you dont want me thinking you sell stuff, perhaps not having a commercial link ident under your very own user name would be prudent, would it not?

 

[oildaytrader]

So you are saying you have developed advanced artificial intelligence that can adapt to completely new market behaviour that has never before been seen?

Why are you not working at NASA?



if you dont want me thinking you sell stuff, perhaps not having a commercial link ident under your very own user name would be prudent, would it not?

U do not need artificial intelligence, just good knowledge of currency trading , support resistance , and human nature

 

[zupcon]

U do not need artificial intelligence

What is "artificial intelligence" ? is it like "artificial light" ?

 

[mbtrading]

U do not need artificial intelligence, just good knowledge of currency trading , support resistance , and human nature

So Im curious, how would you programme human behaviour into a trading robot?

Do they not just operate entirely on scripted events , based on price fluctuation around a given (or several) indicators?

Given that is my understanding of them, they can no more adapt to market conditions than your average monkey. They simply follow a set of rules based around price action in relation to given indicators.
If the market changes its response to that event, even a little, and in the long term that is exactly what markets do, else successful traders would never, ever lose, then the robot simply produces different results, probably worse, but maybe better.

You seem to be describing something very different.

 

[Paul71]

U do not need artificial intelligence, just good knowledge of currency trading , support resistance , and human nature

Which one of your 'ingredients' is the most important to you?

 

[oildaytrader]

which one of your 'ingredients' is the most important to you?

s r , cause if s/r goes .............the profit is all yours

 

[Paul71]

s r , cause if s/r goes .............the profit is all yours

Yes, if it's good enough for the rest of the market...

 

[montmorencyt2w]

I do not sell any programs , just use them for my own trading and they have made 20% for 6 months

Please confirm that you are talking about you actually trading your own real money.

As for someone going from swing trading to range trading being able to read the future, no of course he can't. Nobody can. He will have losing periods unless he closes his trades before (what turns out to be) the actual swing high or low. It's impossible to successfully trade the entirety of a swing high or low (except by sheer good luck, and this can happen occasionally). No problem in trying to do so, but of course you accept that you will lose some pips when it turns around. Either way of doing it is possible and each have their pros and cons. This is where the discretion/judgement/gut feeling/whatever, comes in.

Similarly of course, automated systems cannot foretell the future either, and will have some losses even within an overall winning period.

It all depends on how it is designed , who designed it and the expectations of the automated systems.

If you study the chart below , you will be able read our expectations of the system we use.It does not always work, but it works over all.Look at the downward equity slopes on the charts.This is the period when it is not working.

The above statement is a bit like " you can't make hay all year".We all know that!Users of automated systems know these things.

I much more advanced in the whole process of automation and none of you are qualified to doubt it.Opinions on forums are always read, but rarely used.

You may certainly know more about automated trading systems than I do (although I was programming on and off for over thirty years, so I know something about the limitations of computer programming and programmers - no this was not in a trading environment). Whether you know more about it than anyone else on T2W, or more about the markets than anyone else on T2W, is an unknown and unknowable question.

 

[oildaytrader]

So Im curious, how would you programme human behaviour into a trading robot?

Do they not just operate entirely on scripted events , based on price fluctuation around a given (or several) indicators?

Given that is my understanding of them, they can no more adapt to market conditions than your average monkey. They simply follow a set of rules based around price action in relation to given indicators.
If the market changes its response to that event, even a little, and in the long term that is exactly what markets do, else successful traders would never, ever lose, then the robot simply produces different results, probably worse, but maybe better.

You seem to be describing something very different.

Some things never change in the currency market.

Interest rates and their relation to currency prices,support and resistance to any changes in currency valuations changes but the support and resistance will always remain.

Currency markets are working the same way for last 35 years.

If Governments went back to fixed exchange rates , currency trading would die.

 

[oildaytrader]

Please confirm that you are talking about you actually trading your own real money.

I trade my own real money.

Demo accounts are left to Zupcon.To Zupcon the demo accounts are all he can afford.:smart: he does not loose real money , only monopoly

Demo accounts are still used to test if programmes are performing as they should , and for bugs testing

 

[mbtrading]

Some things never change in the currency market.

Interest rates and their relation to currency prices,support and resistance to any changes in currency valuations changes but the support and resistance will always remain.

Currency markets are working the same way for last 35 years.

If Governments went back to fixed exchange rates , currency trading would die.

So now I reveal I understand how these robots actually work you are changing your response.

First you said you include human behaviour into your algarithm, when I challenge that based on how these things actually work, you now say your programme doesnt need to adapt because the markets never change.

Forgive my being blunt , but your responses show something simply doesnt add up.

 

[oildaytrader]

So now I reveal I understand how these robots actually work you are changing your response.

First you said you include human behaviour into your algarithm, when I challenge that based on how these things actually work, you now say your programme doesnt need to adapt because the markets never change.

Forgive my being blunt , but your responses show something simply doesnt add up.

S R = human behaviour

 

[oildaytrader]

So now I reveal I understand how these robots actually work you are changing your response.

First you said you include human behaviour into your algarithm, when I challenge that based on how these things actually work, you now say your programme doesnt need to adapt because the markets never change.

Forgive my being blunt , but your responses show something simply doesnt add up.

Everything adds up but you don't know what?

 

[montmorencyt2w]

Some things never change in the currency market.

Interest rates and their relation to currency prices,support and resistance to any changes in currency valuations changes but the support and resistance will always remain.

Currency markets are working the same way for last 35 years.

If Governments went back to fixed exchange rates , currency trading would die.

So for example, the fact that at certain times in the history of the last 35 years, the strength of the USD has been inversely correlated with the USD price of oil, and at certain other times, directly correlated or only weakly inversely correlated, would make no difference to your models? Similarly USD strength versus stock market indices.

 

[montmorencyt2w]

S R = human behaviour

The one thing we know for sure about human behaviour is that it is unpredictable. That's your stated reason for trading with automation.

 

[oildaytrader]

So for example, the fact that at certain times in the history of the last 35 years, the strength of the USD has been inversely correlated with the USD price of oil, and at certain other times, directly correlated or only weakly inversely correlated, would make no difference to your models? Similarly USD strength versus stock market indices.

not really

If you are a currency investor it does not matter what NOISE is created by volatility, its yields and expected yields that matter.

My models are currency models

 

[zupcon]

I trade my own real money.

Demo accounts are left to Zupcon.To Zupcon the demo accounts are all he can afford.:smart: he does not loose real money , only monopoly

Demo accounts are still used to test if programmes are performing as they should , and for bugs testing

poor oily, he's still dreaming of finding an EA that might just work whilst he spends his days mopping the floors in burger king.

 

[oildaytrader]

So Im curious, how would you programme human behaviour into a trading robot?

Do they not just operate entirely on scripted events , based on price fluctuation around a given (or several) indicators?

Given that is my understanding of them, they can no more adapt to market conditions than your average monkey. They simply follow a set of rules based around price action in relation to given indicators.
If the market changes its response to that event, even a little, and in the long term that is exactly what markets do, else successful traders would never, ever lose, then the robot simply produces different results, probably worse, but maybe better.

You seem to be describing something very different.

Human behaviour is overridden by s /r.

Indicators are lagging and do not work and leading indicators are based on lagging info,the results of most indicators are uselesss.Using indicators is like catching a plane after take off.It does not work.

http://www.getfolio.com/investment_experts/Van-interview.asp

Robots are more efficient , they do not need to stop trading to eat ,drink,relax,go loo,get tired,sleep,process info slowly,make mistakes,get aroused by women ,internet sex sites,get angry,frustrated,

 

[oildaytrader]

poor oily, he's still dreaming of finding an EA that might just work whilst he spends his days mopping the floors in burger king.

How many demo accounts are you blowing this week?

No need to get jealous of my good work and Smear my name.Just cause of you I wear a vendor tag .You and your lies along with The Bramble trading $1 lots at Oanda.


You got nothing to do than smear traders.

 

[mbtrading]

Human behaviour is overridden by s /r.

Indicators are lagging and do not work and leading indicators are based on lagging info,the results of most indicators are uselesss.Using indicators is like catching a plane after take off.It does not work.

http://www.getfolio.com/investment_experts/Van-interview.asp

Robots are more efficient , they do not need to stop trading to eat ,drink,relax,go loo,get tired,sleep,process info slowly,make mistakes,get aroused by women ,internet sex sites,get angry,frustrated,

You are talking absolute nonsense now.

Robots work off indicators , they are scripts, activated by price action at an indicator chosen by the EA. Thats what they are.

In simple terms, a breakout EA would buy (or sell) as price action went through a support or resistance line drawn by a custom indicator , or when a (for instance) low period MA crosses a high period MA, or whatever.Thats what a robot is.

You are saying in one breath indicators are uselss, and in another robots (that operate soley on scripted triggers coming from indicators) are better.

how can a robot be better when its based on an indicator, which you describe as useless.

Now I know you have read somewhere, perhaps Tom Strigiano's work, that indicators are useless, I agree with him for intra day forex by and large, they lag too much to be anything other than a guide, not something to base a trading decision off in my view, HOWEVER, you contradict yourself by claiming robots DO work.