So What Did You Learn At The Arcade.....

[SOCRATES]

This has been an interesting thread. I went to visit a Trading Arcade for a day at which my friend was an Interest Rates trader (of some 15 years). I asked him what they taught trainees. He told me that his particular arcade was a 'Spread Trading' outfit, therefore that is what they taught the trainees.

He was one of about 3 guys in there (from what I could see), that was actually making *real* money. I asked if any of those guys traded spreads, they just smiled and in not so many words said 'No' ! I never found out how they traded (obviously), and I think they all had their own individual means and methods, but they had nothing to do with the trainee programme there at all.

So it kind of fits in with what Socrates has been saying. I got the impression that day, that this particular arcade taught you to trade particular spreads using certain methods. I think you could eventually make money out of it, but even then, with desk fee's, comissions and profit split, you had to work damn hard for your money. All the while, whilst you were sweating blood just to make a few quid, there was a group of 'Real' traders in the corner !

Admittedly that was one arcade, and I am sure not all are the same. I am looking to move to an arcade, but I think to get the best out of it, you have to go in with some knowledge already and be able to look for opportunities rather than outright 'Methods and Answers'.

Obvious, is it not ?

Now if you want to have some fun.....some real fun.....ask the resident psychologist what he does to turn failures into successes......... ask the trainer how and what he trains....... ask the trainees what they have learnt........ ask the ones in the corner why they smile and keep to themselves, and...ask the owners of the enterprise to truthfully give you a breakdown of how profits are derived and see what answers you get.......... ask yourself why these ideas are promoted and who benefits from these promotions, who are the predators and who are the victims, and who are the ultimate victors.

All of it is obvious, perfectly obvious.

 

[mburdge]

If you can do, do; If you can't do, teach!

Any good trader will be trading, not teaching. Neither does he need an arcade, just a computer and his trading style.

Even with little money to start, he can build a substantial account if he is any good.

Everything else is just excuses for failure.

 

[bundbaby]

If you can do, do; If you can't do, teach!

Any good trader will be trading, not teaching. Neither does he need an arcade, just a computer and his trading style.

Even with little money to start, he can build a substantial account if he is any good.

Everything else is just excuses for failure.

mburge, what r u doing here?
If u dont need help you would not be here.
Clearly then you are looking for excuses!

 

[spin2win]

so it seems it is just a numbers game

 

[bundbaby]

so it seems it is just a numbers game

it depends if the house is playing a numbers game, you need to check out the house.

some play a numbers game, and thats pretty obvious - they start with say 20 and tell you every two weeks we will half our commitment until they are left with a couple who seem ok.

others do train properly, they treat thier trainees like they have real potential on an individual basis and have success rates of over 70%. Check out Futex and League. I have mentioned them before but i still believe they are the best at this

 

[spin2win]

leagues trading strategy i heard was kind of flys on flys thus you have about 16 legs for 1./2 tick profit ?

 

[qazwsxedc]

Obvious, is it not ?

ask yourself why these ideas are promoted and who benefits from these promotions, who are the predators and who are the victims, and who are the ultimate victors.

All of it is obvious, perfectly obvious.

You won't have much fun, you'll be escorted off the premises Same old story, isn't it? In a gold rush, most of the miners don't make money, only a few strike it rich. Stories of those few are what keeps attracting newcomers, and the only people who make *consistent* money day in day out are the ones who sell shovels, run the saloon or the whorehouse.

 

[Directional]

Check out Futex and League. I have mentioned them before but i still believe they are the best at this

Why do you believe this? up until a few weeks ago you didnt even know who league were?

leagues trading strategy i heard was kind of flys on flys thus you have about 16 legs for 1./2 tick profit ?

thats why the commission rates you pay are so important. 16 legs at Refco's 10,000 RT rate would leave less than half a tick - the euribor tick is €12.50 or approx £10, 16 legs at 40p a side leaves you less than £4 profit.. not much room for error or scratching your trades.

I'm assuming League traders pay the same rates as Refco traders, since their office is actually part of our trading floor in the corner of our office here.

 

[bundbaby]

leagues trading strategy i heard was kind of flys on flys thus you have about 16 legs for 1./2 tick profit ?

This thread is about WHAT DO YOU LEARN, if League are prepared to teach you profitable trading techniques, some complex strategies based on their experiences, and led by some highly successful traders, then whats to complain about. DO YOU WANT TO LEARN FROM THE BEST OR NOT?

 

[rogerha]

Obvious, is it not ?

Now if you want to have some fun.....some real fun.....ask the resident psychologist what he does to turn failures into successes......... ask the trainer how and what he trains....... ask the trainees what they have learnt........ ask the ones in the corner why they smile and keep to themselves, and...ask the owners of the enterprise to truthfully give you a breakdown of how profits are derived and see what answers you get.......... ask yourself why these ideas are promoted and who benefits from these promotions, who are the predators and who are the victims, and who are the ultimate victors.

All of it is obvious, perfectly obvious.

I agree with you Socrates, and I didn't and never would ask the guys 'How they did it'. But it was one of those guys that did invite me in for a day. Not to 'make me into a trader', just to get a feel of an arcade and at that point I didn;t even know they took on trainees.

What I will say is I think that if you go to an arcade as a trainee and think you will be trained how to be a trader and live happily ever after, then you are sadly mistaken. If you think you will be trained into 'turning over' a great deal of relatively low risk trades in order to 'pay the bills', then you might have a little more accuracy in your thoughts.

I would go into an arcade for one main reason. If you are good, you may have a better chance of being 'noticed' and 'encouraged' than if you trade from home. You also may pick up small amounts of information that you may not have previously thought of. Admittedly there are no guarantees of this, but I beleive it does increase your chances of improving your trading.

 

[charliechan]

Why do you believe this? up until a few weeks ago you didnt even know who league were?



thats why the commission rates you pay are so important. 16 legs at Refco's 10,000 RT rate would leave less than half a tick - the euribor tick is €12.50 or approx £10, 16 legs at 40p a side leaves you less than £4 profit.. not much room for error or scratching your trades.

I'm assuming League traders pay the same rates as Refco traders, since their office is actually part of our trading floor in the corner of our office here.

not only that, but when youve managed to get out of a 6-8 legged position (why not call it a spider?? ) there is more risk that the structure has moved and your profit goes down further.

remember that doing this is also going a fair way down the curve - not all of which will have the volume you need to move on.
- i would have thought????

 

[spin2win]

it seems liffe are trying to get people to do calender spreads in $$ wonder how they will go.. i spoke to a few people who worked at mac, sta etc etc and it seems most of the training is on a simulator and you have to just try to get into the flow of it all... in the groove!!!! rather than be taught you get a feel for a market over time how it moves what makes it move etc

 

[SOCRATES]

You won't have much fun, you'll be escorted off the premises Same old story, isn't it? In a gold rush, most of the miners don't make money, only a few strike it rich. Stories of those few are what keeps attracting newcomers, and the only people who make *consistent* money day in day out are the ones who sell shovels, run the saloon or the whorehouse.

Yes, and you have forgotten to tell us about the successful miners. This handful, for some reason or another, perhaps through an element of luck but mostly as a result of persistent effort, find a really serious vein of gold. They proceed to mine it in secret, because otherwise all the other miners will crowd in and want to share, which is against their interest, of course because the amount of gold in the vein is limited.

They pretend to be struggling, just like everybody else, and only just being able to find tiny scraps, which they are seen to sell alongside their competitors, muttering and grumbling.

When they have exhausted the vein of gold they are mining, they now have the problem of disposing of this vast quantity (by comparison) without a fuss.

None of the other miners are allowed to know all of this, they keep themselves very much to themselves.

Then one day they saddle their horses explaining that they are giving up, and ride off.

The remaining mining community, oblivious of what has really happened, continue to scratch about for a long time until one day, through some route of gossip or another, they get to know the true facts.

This is what causes the gold rush.

The merchants, who see an opportunity to do commerce (not bizness) also arrive and set up the general store, in order to cater for the needs of mining pioneers. Among these merchants are knowledgeable individuals who know exactly what the general store needs to keep in stock, having in the past been miners themselves.

The critics of all this who are neither miners nor merchants, take it upon themselves to provide a commentary of their percieved ideas about what appears to be happening.

What appears to be happening is very different to what is actually happening.

That is because there is a very big difference between bizness and commerce.

But that is another story altogether, and justifies a really fat book to be written about it.

 

[SOCRATES]

This thread is about WHAT DO YOU LEARN, if League are prepared to teach you profitable trading techniques, some complex strategies based on their experiences, and led by some highly successful traders, then whats to complain about. DO YOU WANT TO LEARN FROM THE BEST OR NOT?

You miss the point, Bundbaby.

It is not about learning, it is whether what is learned is meaningful or not.

And whether, in at the end analysis, the best are willing to be generous and freely give of their hard earned knowledge and expertise, and more importantly, for what reason ?

And who ulitmately benefits, and whether the ultimate beneficients are the most deserving.

 

[SOCRATES]

I agree with you Socrates, and I didn't and never would ask the guys 'How they did it'. But it was one of those guys that did invite me in for a day. Not to 'make me into a trader', just to get a feel of an arcade and at that point I didn;t even know they took on trainees.

What I will say is I think that if you go to an arcade as a trainee and think you will be trained how to be a trader and live happily ever after, then you are sadly mistaken. If you think you will be trained into 'turning over' a great deal of relatively low risk trades in order to 'pay the bills', then you might have a little more accuracy in your thoughts.

I would go into an arcade for one main reason. If you are good, you may have a better chance of being 'noticed' and 'encouraged' than if you trade from home. You also may pick up small amounts of information that you may not have previously thought of. Admittedly there are no guarantees of this, but I beleive it does increase your chances of improving your trading.

If they are really good, they will not tell you, period.

Just like professional magicians, who perform for an audience whose attention they have captured, they will perform the trick, but not explain its workings.

With regard to picking up information, all the information you need is here, as some wag posted sometime ago....."and all of it for free""....."hahaha" (my giggle).

 

[SOCRATES]

it seems liffe are trying to get people to do calender spreads in $$ wonder how they will go.. i spoke to a few people who worked at mac, sta etc etc and it seems most of the training is on a simulator and you have to just try to get into the flow of it all... in the groove!!!! rather than be taught you get a feel for a market over time how it moves what makes it move etc

Yes, quite so. It is the best that can be done.

 

[SOCRATES]

not only that, but when youve managed to get out of a 6-8 legged position (why not call it a spider?? ) there is more risk that the structure has moved and your profit goes down further.

remember that doing this is also going a fair way down the curve - not all of which will have the volume you need to move on.
- i would have thought????

Yes indeed........and isn't it fun ?

 

[spin2win]

only way you learn is if a local sponsors you and they back you and you give them a cut of the profits (if you have any) if not your ouwwwwwwwt

 

[salltbtch]

how do you get someone to sponsor you

 

[spin2win]

get freindly with a local with large pockets and ask... ]