jtrading and Madison Cole

They dont say trade without stops if you are a member you will know exactly what they say :confused:

it was definitely stated somewhere that they were not running stops on some trades.

and do i recall that trades were allowed to run up to 200 pips offside on the stops?

i haven't time right now to find quotes, i will find them later.
 
Thats very true. I'm just going over last weeks trades at the moment, and the chances are I'll have lost money every single day. I'm still way up for the month, and even if I hit absolute drawdown limits next week, I'd still be well over 10% up on the month.

Its always amusing watching how the t2w crowd react to a couple of consecutive losses. Last year I had a run of 14 consecutive losses, and didnt even realise it until 3 months after !

This trading without stops nonsense should ring a few alarm bells.

I thinking running 14 losses without realising it for 3 months tells you that you're in the wrong vocation....

That should set your alram bells ringing surely.....
 
I thinking running 14 losses without realising it for 3 months tells you that you're in the wrong vocation....

That should set your alram bells ringing surely.....

:whistling oh be very careful, jungrend. I don't know what your experience is, but hare's been round the block a few times and talks from long experience. I should weigh his words carefully :)
 
Thats very true. I'm just going over last weeks trades at the moment, and the chances are I'll have lost money every single day. I'm still way up for the month, and even if I hit absolute drawdown limits next week, I'd still be well over 10% up on the month.

Its always amusing watching how the t2w crowd react to a couple of consecutive losses. Last year I had a run of 14 consecutive losses, and didnt even realise it until 3 months after !

This trading without stops nonsense should ring a few alarm bells.

Agreed. It certainly is amusing. (y)(y)

Peter
 
:whistling oh be very careful, jungrend. I don't know what your experience is, but hare's been round the block a few times and talks from long experience. I should weigh his words carefully :)

Not sure what you're implying but nobody runs 14 losses without realising it for 3 months......

And its a she unless he's deliberately indicated that he's a female in the profile.
 
Sorry, but all this comment does is reveal your lack of experience.

Where do you lot arrive from with your very boring :sleep: comments.
If you have something to say about the signals positive or negative then we might end up having quite a sensible discussion. If not ?
 
Well, I'm surprised you find it boring if you are genuinely interested in learning how to trade.

There is not much to say about signal services other than I would avoid them. Why would someone sell signals if they worked? Why not just trade them?

The Hare's comment about having 14 losers in a row, and still being a profitable trader, is very interesting, to me at least. I should say that I do not find it surprising, but if you do, you have a lot to learn.

Instead of making sarcastic comments, why not try to engage with him and ask how it is that he can experience such things and still be profitable? Why not ask how he copes with a run like that from a psychological point of view?

The answers (if he is willing to give them after your rude response) might be very enlightening for you. Certainly much more so than soliciting opinions on tip sheets.

Another dogooder I presume :-0
How dare you accuse me of being sarcastic I am totally :innocent: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
 
Not sure what you're implying but nobody runs 14 losses without realising it for 3 months......

14 consecutive losses resulted in a peak to valley drawdown of under 10%. It took 3 months to identify the situation becuase it happened at the back end of the year. If it had happened at the beginning of the year I wouldnt have know about it 12 months :LOL:

I probably spend 2-3 hours each day reviewing the previous days trades, consecutive losses are of absolutely no interest or concern. I have daily loss limits, and they are freqently hit (and exceeded). I have max drawdown limits of around 14%, and until those levels are hit, I really dont give a flying ****.

I will admit that I've often thought that I should track consecutive losses, possibly because it might give an indication that something isnt right, but given that there's a statistical likelihood that these streaks will occur by random chance, I cant really justify the need to monitor something that likely to happen anyway, the important thing is drawdown.

Whilst its also true that I've stopped trading a couple of methods at the point that returns where not as expected, I'd probably go as far as to say if drawdown (or profit) limits are breached, and the reason is due to an abnormally high number of consecutive losses (or gains), then I'd probably be far more inclined to take an aggresive position and keep trading.
 
Ive just noticed the comment about handling consecutive losers psychologically, and its a good point.

I used to trade a method very similar to BBMAC's, (and still do occassionally just to keep my hand in). That method is very in tune with the market, and it tends to have an extremely high strike rate, partially because its a sound methodology, and partially because in my case at least, I was happy to trade at R:R ratios of 1:1 or even less at times.

I'll happily admit to having major pyschological issues with consecutive losers when trading that particular system. 3 consecutive losers would cause me real concern, I'd start to reduce risk, I'd close profits early just to book a win, and this would negatively impact on my results. I was never able to trade the method with a large account, I was able to make enough to make a living, but I was never going to make serious money, unless something changed.

My current method is 100% automated. Its more like an exercise in statistical process control than trading. I have a better theoretical understanding of what my edge is, and far better understanding of the sort of distributions in returns that I can expect to generate, and as long as returns fall within those distributions, I'm comfortable. I also guess that the fact that I've been doing it for a while, and even if I hit drawdown limits tommorrow and had to stop I'd still be well ahead probably helps. I also have the confidence that I've been able to build and trade a system once, and I could do it again. Although execution is mainly automated, I do tend be quite busy with data analysis, evaluating modifications etc, and I do find there are times where a month goes by where I havnt paid that much attention to the day to day returns, and therefore been unaware of particularly bad days that might have been cause for concern.

The other issue is that I'm quite widely diversified. If I'm trading the discretionary system I might take 2-3 trades a day. With the automated system, I might take 60 trades a day, so a run of 14 tends to get lost in there.

Its no secret that I mainly trade random entries, and that kind of helps too from a psychological perspective. For example, yesterday evening I identified a couple of support and resistance zones of interest for today. I had a support level on cable at 1.5665, from which I've taken a couple of trades today (if memory serves me correctly its a 1 hour swing low from last week, and a previous high from the week before)

I was talking to another trader yesterday evening, and mentioned when asked that apart from the random thing, I'd initially be trading cable and looking for shorts from 5763 area, or a long scalps from 5665 area. Although I should know better, I find myself really caring about the outcome of those trades. Partially because of the ego involved in making the call, and partially because it reflects on my ability as a technical analyst (if you can call drawing a couple of lines from previous swing highs and lows TA) I know its nonsense, and I should know better, but thats the reality that I have to live with.

During the time that its taken for me to take 2 scalps on a relatively small account, an automated sytem running on the nearest computer to me has taken 9 random trades, on a much larger account, making over 90 pips and has now stopped for the day. About 10 feet from where I'm sat, I have 2 more machines taking random trades that have been running since this morning, and I havnt the slightest clue what the state of play is there, if its a typical day, they've probably lost money. I cant even be bothered to walk across and wiggle the mouse to find out, or log into the centrallised system that tracks this stuff.

One of the random systems took a short whilst I was writing the previous post. My natural reaction whilst watching would be to close that trade at around 20 pips profit as price dropped back into that support zone (and I would probably have be right to do so as its now back around break even, and will probaly close at a loss), but the fact thats its a random trade, and profit or loss is entirely due to chance rather than skill, removes a lot of the psychological pressure. I honestly dont care if it makes or loses money, a long as the sytem does what its deigned to do.

With a random entry you have no expectation at all, and many of the psychological issues disapear, and management of the trade at that point somehow becomes a lot easier.

I suppose it was my inability to handle psychological pressure particlarly well that led me down this route, and in a strange way its had quite a synergistic effect. Over time, I've been able to add in additional TA filters that I developed through discretionary trading into the random entry systems, and the deeper understanding of the role of random chance, and how an edge should be exploited from my random systems has helped me become a little more relaxed about the day to day returns from my discretionary trading.

I'd also say that when you trade a bunch of diverified systems, you tend to have to take the role of a manager, watching the action play out, rather than having an active involvement and you tend to be a little more dispationate. The other thing is there's usually a system doing OK somewhere, and on the days you are feeling a bit down (during a prolonged drawdown for example), you can focus on reseach aspects of that particular system pin the equity curves on the wall, and give yourself a bit of positive reinforcement. Conversely there's usually a disaster happening somewhere that needs attention too, and keeping busy, and just sticking to the plan tends to help.

To get back on topic, I honestly cant begin to understand how I could trade calls made by a third party without an understanding of what edge they where attempting to exploit, what kind of win rate I could expect, what size of drawdown etc. Its trading blind, and hoping things are going to work out OK.

I'd probably go as far as to say its not even possible to follow someone elses calls.
 
Ive just noticed the comment about handling consecutive losers psychologically, and its a good point.

I used to trade a method very similar to BBMAC's, (and still do occassionally just to keep my hand in). That method is very in tune with the market, and it tends to have an extremely high strike rate, partially because its a sound methodology, and partially because in my case at least, I was happy to trade at R:R ratios of 1:1 or even less at times.

I'll happily admit to having major pyschological issues with consecutive losers when trading that particular system. 3 consecutive losers would cause me real concern, I'd start to reduce risk, I'd close profits early just to book a win, and this would negatively impact on my results. I was never able to trade the method with a large account, I was able to make enough to make a living, but I was never going to make serious money, unless something changed.

My current method is 100% automated. Its more like an exercise in statistical process control than trading. I have a better theoretical understanding of what my edge is, and far better understanding of the sort of distributions in returns that I can expect to generate, and as long as returns fall within those distributions, I'm comfortable. I also guess that the fact that I've been doing it for a while, and even if I hit drawdown limits tommorrow and had to stop I'd still be well ahead probably helps. I also have the confidence that I've been able to build and trade a system once, and I could do it again. Although execution is mainly automated, I do tend be quite busy with data analysis, evaluating modifications etc, and I do find there are times where a month goes by where I havnt paid that much attention to the day to day returns, and therefore been unaware of particularly bad days that might have been cause for concern.

The other issue is that I'm quite widely diversified. If I'm trading the discretionary system I might take 2-3 trades a day. With the automated system, I might take 60 trades a day, so a run of 14 tends to get lost in there.

Its no secret that I mainly trade random entries, and that kind of helps too from a psychological perspective. For example, yesterday evening I identified a couple of support and resistance zones of interest for today. I had a support level on cable at 1.5665, from which I've taken a couple of trades today (if memory serves me correctly its a 1 hour swing low from last week, and a previous high from the week before)

I was talking to another trader yesterday evening, and mentioned when asked that apart from the random thing, I'd initially be trading cable and looking for shorts from 5763 area, or a long scalps from 5665 area. Although I should know better, I find myself really caring about the outcome of those trades. Partially because of the ego involved in making the call, and partially because it reflects on my ability as a technical analyst (if you can call drawing a couple of lines from previous swing highs and lows TA) I know its nonsense, and I should know better, but thats the reality that I have to live with.

During the time that its taken for me to take 2 scalps on a relatively small account, an automated sytem running on the nearest computer to me has taken 9 random trades, on a much larger account, making over 90 pips and has now stopped for the day. About 10 feet from where I'm sat, I have 2 more machines taking random trades that have been running since this morning, and I havnt the slightest clue what the state of play is there, if its a typical day, they've probably lost money. I cant even be bothered to walk across and wiggle the mouse to find out, or log into the centrallised system that tracks this stuff.

One of the random systems took a short whilst I was writing the previous post. My natural reaction whilst watching would be to close that trade at around 20 pips profit as price dropped back into that support zone (and I would probably have be right to do so as its now back around break even, and will probaly close at a loss), but the fact thats its a random trade, and profit or loss is entirely due to chance rather than skill, removes a lot of the psychological pressure. I honestly dont care if it makes or loses money, a long as the sytem does what its deigned to do.

With a random entry you have no expectation at all, and many of the psychological issues disapear, and management of the trade at that point somehow becomes a lot easier.

I suppose it was my inability to handle psychological pressure particlarly well that led me down this route, and in a strange way its had quite a synergistic effect. Over time, I've been able to add in additional TA filters that I developed through discretionary trading into the random entry systems, and the deeper understanding of the role of random chance, and how an edge should be exploited from my random systems has helped me become a little more relaxed about the day to day returns from my discretionary trading.

I'd also say that when you trade a bunch of diverified systems, you tend to have to take the role of a manager, watching the action play out, rather than having an active involvement and you tend to be a little more dispationate. The other thing is there's usually a system doing OK somewhere, and on the days you are feeling a bit down (during a prolonged drawdown for example), you can focus on reseach aspects of that particular system pin the equity curves on the wall, and give yourself a bit of positive reinforcement. Conversely there's usually a disaster happening somewhere that needs attention too, and keeping busy, and just sticking to the plan tends to help.

To get back on topic, I honestly cant begin to understand how I could trade calls made by a third party without an understanding of what edge they where attempting to exploit, what kind of win rate I could expect, what size of drawdown etc. Its trading blind, and hoping things are going to work out OK.

I'd probably go as far as to say its not even possible to follow someone elses calls.

What a load of boring old crap:sleep:
We who are trading the signals are only interested in their merit :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
 
What a load of boring old crap:sleep:
We who are trading the signals are only interested in their merit :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

The post wasnt written for morons like you, it was written in response to a question about the psychology of handling consecutive lossses asked by a sentient being with a brain.

:LOL:
 
The post wasnt written for morons like you, it was written in response to a question about the psychology of handling consecutive lossses asked by a sentient being with a brain.

:LOL:

You are so boring :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: and you think of yourself as being so :smart: are you :eek:
 
You are so boring :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: and you think of yourself as being so :smart: are you :eek:

If you find that boring, maybe there is a link between this post:
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/general-trading-chat/120834-have-i-found-holy-grail.html
and the current state of affairs you find yourself in, scratching around looking
for some magic signal provider to make it easy.

Now think what you could have done with the time between april 2011 and now.
Research and learning are not easy, I don't think they are boring either.
Genuinely - if you find the subject boring, maybe you are just in the wrong field altogether?

Go on surprise me with a considered and intelligent response...
 
If you find that boring, maybe there is a link between this post:
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/general-trading-chat/120834-have-i-found-holy-grail.html
and the current state of affairs you find yourself in, scratching around looking
for some magic signal provider to make it easy.

Now think what you could have done with the time between april 2011 and now.
Research and learning are not easy, I don't think they are boring either.
Genuinely - if you find the subject boring, maybe you are just in the wrong field altogether?

Go on surprise me with a considered and intelligent response...



:sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep:
 
Your responses are staggering. You are given two long, well thought out, insightful and extremely useful posts and your answer is that?

I've looked over your post history, and all you do is chase one signal provider after another. When are you going to wake up? You are being conned, but you rush to defend the people that are robbing you. Someone like The Hare actually tries to help you and you respond with ridicule. Absolutely unbelievable.

You will get nowhere with this until you give up these foolish dreams of easy riches and start putting in some work.

He's only winding everyone up for lulz. You guys just haven't realized yet.

Peter
 
I got 100 says anything remotely useful anyone posts at the zoo will be immediately deleted :)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Be Quick Or Be Dead
Your responses are staggering. You are given two long, well thought out, insightful and extremely useful posts and your answer is that?

I've looked over your post history, and all you do is chase one signal provider after another. When are you going to wake up? You are being conned, but you rush to defend the people that are robbing you. Someone like The Hare actually tries to help you and you respond with ridicule. Absolutely unbelievable.

You will get nowhere with this until you give up these foolish dreams of easy riches and start putting in some work.

I fail to see where the hare is actually trying to help me.
I have also got to disagree with your statement (You will get nowhere with this until you give up these foolish dreams of easy riches and start putting in some work.
The work has been done and the easy riches are on their way. I have recently discovered a way of trading that allows me to trade against the norm and make money.
What most of you lot do not realize is how corrupt this trading game is, even the charts and indicators are put there just to confuse people which they do. That is why 95%+ of them are losers.
This may surprise you but I will not be renewing my subscription to jtrading. I do not need the stress of puting on trades with massive stop losses and to come on to a thread where no one can contribute anything worthwhile to put into practice.
I honestly thought that people came on to those forums to learn something but how wrong can a person be.
Now I will sit back and wait for the ridiculous responses that will be fired my way.
 
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