I Quit...!

[damianoakley]

WOW - I just logged in out of pure curiousity to see if there had been any replies to my announcement.....and I find 4 pages worth! I really didn't think people would be that bothered, but it seems to have generated a bit of a debate.

Having been a member of this board for a number of years, the last thing I want to do is leave behind any suspicious air of mystery surrounding my decision to move away from trading. There have been some genuine questions raised, and with the aim of providing some closure I will address the main questions here:


1) Why would I choose to stop trading if it's a money-making endeavour?

I have traded for 7 years and made an income - that income has provided a living, but nothing more glamourous than that. Many people assume that if you are trading successfully then you must be a millionaire......this is a very naive view. When you are making 50% profit on your capital in a year and you are withdrawing much of that as income, then your physical trading capital will grow very slowly year-on-year. So, whilst my trading business was an income-producing business, it was just providing a living and nothing more. I traded from home, not from a private beach, mansion or yacht! Although I did enjoy being my own boss and working for myself, I found that the process of trading every day became rather boring and unfulfilling....I started to think that there was much more to life, which was ironic, since I had spent the early part of my life hell-bent on becoming a trader. Over time, I found myself drawn towards other things outside of trading that started to hold a greater passion for me, and trading eventually began to move further and further down my list of passions and priorities in life. I think someone put it quite well on this thread when they suggested that I may have "fallen out of love with trading." My general interest in the financial markets is still there and I do still look at the markets every day, but the drive and enthusiasm that once led me to trade each day has been replaced with other priorities.


2) Why have I chosen to stop coaching/mentoring?

I began one-on-one coaching about 2 years ago in order to create some variation in my life. The coaching gave me daily interaction with fellow traders who were interested in what I had to show them. As a businessman, I charged for my time because I believed that what I had to teach had value. As time went by however, I started to enjoy the coaching business less and less. It has been suggested elsewhere on these boards that teaching trading is easy money....I can assure you that it is not. Even though I thought I was careful not to oversell my services, I found that most clients would natuarally come to me with high expectations. I have said on this board many times that trading is a business that requires hard graft just like any other business, but it seems to be human nature in people to expect to be able to just activate a trading system that will act like a cash-machine with minimal effot. Most people just don't seem to be able to accept the fact that trading is difficult because it involves spikes, swings and drawdowns. I even dedicated a section of my course to deal with these psychological issues, but students were still eager to just move on to learning system rules that they hoped would be an automatic cash-machine. People's unrealistic expectations ultimately led to the coaching side of things being an unpleasant experience. Whoever believes coaching to be easy money should try it themselves.....my hat goes off to the genuine trainers on these boards who have taught trading for many years.


3) Why have I chosen to announce my exit from Trading, Coaching and Trade2Win?

Having once been a very active member of these boards, I still get notifications regarding old threads and private emails. After 5 years, I think that the members of Trade2Win (some of which are previous clients) deserve slightly more than me just disappearing without trace or explanation. I thought that it could appear rather rude if my posts and emails remained inactive without any explanation.


4) What "other activities" am I moving on to?

Well, I am involved in 2 businesses (both media-related) and I'm playing a lot of poker! All activities are lucrative and carry a great deal of passion and excitement for me. As a relatively young and ambitious guy, I am certainly not ready to retire just yet!


Whilst this is a very long post, I figured it was necessary to provide some finality and closure before people's minds go racing and all sorts of theories and suggestions start running rife on this thread!

I will still check back on T2W every now and then just out of curiousity, but I suspect that the frequency of this regular "checking back" will diminish over time.

This post has been as honest and as clear as my writing skills will allow....I trust that it lays to rest many of the negative suggestions that have been made about me.

All the best to everyone,


Damian

 

[temptrader]

I don't want to seem rude, and I apologize if I've offended you, but let me go through your points:

1) 50% capital gain you say? Well let's say that you start with a bank of 20K. Neglecting scaling difficulties, how long does it take to increase this to 10 times with the 50% gain each year. Answer is log 10 / log 1.5 which is a little short of 6 years. I don't mean to be rude, and I'm not trying to imply anything, but most people working don't get 50% pay rises each year unless they switch careers. Maybe your methods does not scale that well. Or, more likely, you are a "disciplined" trader that relies on serious money management, and when they both go you are left in the lurch. The "disciplined" method is one of the most painful ways of trading that I know, and it's quite reasonable to expect people to "burn out" due to it.

2) there are a few genuine trainers/coaches on this site. But with hindsight I should not have used or listened to any of them. but that's just me

like I said, I'm not trying to be negative, but I've yet to see someone makes serious amounts give up what they're doing, especially at a young age (psychological trauma would be a notable exception though). Like someone said to me: you would if you COULD. A slightly amended version is: you would if you could, but if it's not enough you try something else.

 

[PKFFW]

I don't want to seem rude, and I apologize if I've offended you, but let me go through your points:

1) 50% capital gain you say? Well let's say that you start with a bank of 20K. Neglecting scaling difficulties, how long does it take to increase this to 10 times with the 50% gain each year. Answer is log 10 / log 1.5 which is a little short of 6 years. I don't mean to be rude, and I'm not trying to imply anything, but most people working don't get 50% pay rises each year unless they switch careers. Maybe your methods does not scale that well. Or, more likely, you are a "disciplined" trader that relies on serious money management, and when they both go you are left in the lurch. The "disciplined" method is one of the most painful ways of trading that I know, and it's quite reasonable to expect people to "burn out" due to it.

He clearly states he was taking out the money he made in order to pay his living expenses. So where does the compounding profits come into it?

The math works like this..20K startging capitial....50% gain at years end.........that 50% withdrawn and used to pay bills etc.....net result of increase to trading capital equals.........wait for it..........0!

For someone who talks so often about maths I would have thought a simple equation like this would not be beyond your capabilities. Or are you being intentionally ignorant?

like I said, I'm not trying to be negative, but I've yet to see someone makes serious amounts give up what they're doing, especially at a young age (psychological trauma would be a notable exception though). Like someone said to me: you would if you COULD. A slightly amended version is: you would if you could, but if it's not enough you try something else.

Firstly the fact you have not met anyone making serious money who has given it up doesn't mean they don't exist.

Secondly you are once again calling into question Damians post(pretty much again calling him a liar) simply because you do not agree with the way he is doing things. You would not give up trading if you were making serious money therefore Damian must be lying if he is giving it up whilst claiming to make a living from it.

There are plenty of ways to make money in this world. If someone is not enjoying how they are currently making money then any normal sane person might think about changing what they are doing. Especially if that person is confident in their abilities to succeed at other endeavours.

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[FXSCALPER2]

He clearly states he was taking out the money he made in order to pay his living expenses. So where does the compounding profits come into it?

The math works like this..20K startging capitial....50% gain at years end.........that 50% withdrawn and used to pay bills etc.....net result of increase to trading capital equals.........wait for it..........0!

For someone who talks so often about maths I would have thought a simple equation like this would not be beyond your capabilities. Or are you being intentionally ignorant?

Firstly the fact you have not met anyone making serious money who has given it up doesn't mean they don't exist.

Secondly you are once again calling into question Damians post(pretty much again calling him a liar) simply because you do not agree with the way he is doing things. You would not give up trading if you were making serious money therefore Damian must be lying if he is giving it up whilst claiming to make a living from it.

There are plenty of ways to make money in this world. If someone is not enjoying how they are currently making money then any normal sane person might think about changing what they are doing. Especially if that person is confident in their abilities to succeed at other endeavours.

Cheers,
PKFFW

Of course it is logically possible for a good trader to want to stop trading. However, if I had to bet on it, I would say our man here quit most likely because he couldn't do it. If there were such bets going around the place, I would take each and every one of them and clean up.

 

[jitasb]

Is there really much point to all of this ?

Some people think that Damien has quit because he couldn't trade to make enough money, and some people think he has quit because of the reasons he has stated. No-one in each camp is going to be persuaded to change their view. Now that is a bet I would take

 

[PKFFW]

Of course it is logically possible for a good trader to want to stop trading. However, if I had to bet on it, I would say our man here quit most likely because he couldn't do it. If there were such bets going around the place, I would take each and every one of them and clean up.

You are entitled to place any bet you like. Doesn't mean much when you have no way of verifying one way or the other so as to determine a winner.

What one is not entitled to is personally vilifing someone simply because one doesn't believe what they have to say. Especially when one has nothing more to offer in the way of proof the person is lying than their own preconceived notions.(not suggesting you personally have done this by the way)

FWIW, I am truly sorry for you and temptrader as you both seem so enraptured of money that you would continue doing something even if you did not like doing so just to make some when there are so many other ways to make it.

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[PKFFW]

Is there really much point to all of this ?

Some people think that Damien has quit because he couldn't trade to make enough money, and some people think he has quit because of the reasons he has stated. No-one in each camp is going to be persuaded to change their view. Now that is a bet I would take

Personally I don't care if anyone changes their view.

I simply don't like seeing somene attacking another without any provocation or cause. When I see something I don't like I make a point of doing something about it rather than simply letting it slide.

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[FXSCALPER2]

You are entitled to place any bet you like. Doesn't mean much when you have no way of verifying one way or the other so as to determine a winner.

What one is not entitled to is personally vilifing someone simply because one doesn't believe what they have to say. Especially when one has nothing more to offer in the way of proof the person is lying than their own preconceived notions.(not suggesting you personally have done this by the way)

FWIW, I am truly sorry for you and temptrader as you both seem so enraptured of money that you would continue doing something even if you did not like doing so just to make some when there are so many other ways to make it.

Cheers,
PKFFW

I am not sure, of course, hence the bet.

As to me being enraptured by money, you couldn't be more wrong. The fact is life is about money and people are full of sh!t. I think it is a pathetic waste of life to do something just for the money but that is exactly what people do. See what I mean? My personal values are neither here nor there.

Stop being such a sanctimonious git, by the way.

 

[Crap Buddist]

I'm not sure this is a good sign for T2W is it ?

Now look at damiens post above here and he's getting "super repped"

It's funny, like, if you give a resignation letter to the members the you get greens for departing! ?

Sick ,gentlemen,very sick!




Well in that spirit lets super rep him off the planet!

 

[temptrader]

The math works like this..20K startging capitial....50% gain at years end.........that 50% withdrawn and used to pay bills etc.....net result of increase to trading capital equals.........wait for it..........0!

What are you on PKFFW? If I had a "system" that I knew would generate 50% gains on the account each year, I'd beg, steal and borrow all the capital I can get!!!! Why do you think there are huge debts problems amongst gamblers? They all think they could do it, they beg, steal and borrow to get a stake and most likely get into more debt. I'm sorry, but an excuse that your living expenses is being eaten away does not cut it - sorry. Again I'm not implying anything here.

The fact is life is about money and people are full of sh!t.

That's right, and just like casual conversations amongst friends on a night out or something, everyone bigs up what they earn or how they know such and such a person that makes so much money. It's all show isn't it?

 

[Paul71]

Hi All,

As many of you will know, I have been a member of this board for a number of years whilst operating as a full-time trader and trading coach. I do hope that during that time the users of T2W have found my contributions useful and informative.

After trading for 7 years and coaching for 2 years, I have decided to cease the operation of my mentoring business and retire from these boards for good. No doubt there will be a certain amount of speculation as to my reasons for this (both positive and negative), but the truth is, I simply am not getting much enjoyment from either coaching or trading itself anymore.

The general theme of the financial markets has lost its shine and appeal for me over the years, and I have decided to pursue other business activities that I have developed over the years that now hold a greater passion for me. Regular users of this board will have seen my input on T2W decline during the past 12 months as other interests have taken priority in my life.

I would like to thank everyone for their time and effort on all the threads that I've been involved in, and genuinely wish you all the very best in your trading endeavours.


Thank you, Goodbye and Good Luck


Damian

Damian, successful traders never leave the arena, it just doesn't work that way. Once you know, you know for life. Good luck.

 

[belflan]

Is there really much point to all of this ?

you're absolutely right, I quit. feck it all

 

[PKFFW]

As to me being enraptured by money, you couldn't be more wrong. The fact is life is about money and people are full of sh!t. I think it is a pathetic waste of life to do something just for the money but that is exactly what people do. See what I mean? My personal values are neither here nor there.

And yet you can not seem to fathom why someone would quit doing something that is making them money because they don't enjoy doing it.

Nothing wrong with having money as your number one priority in life. Each to their own.

My point to temptrader is not to go calling someone else a liar simply because their number one priority isn't money.

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[temptrader]

And yet you can not seem to fathom why someone would quit doing something that is making them money because they don't enjoy doing it.

Nothing wrong with having money as your number one priority in life. Each to their own.

My point to temptrader is not to go calling someone else a liar simply because their number one priority isn't money.

Cheers,
PKFFW

PKFFW, you still don't understand me do you? I can call anyone whatever I like. Same applies to you. I did not call Damien a liar. There is a big difference between lying and not being honest with yourself. Gamblers do it all the time, and it's one of the major factors that makes their addiction so hard for them to break free from.

 

[PKFFW]

What are you on PKFFW? If I had a "system" that I knew would generate 50% gains on the account each year, I'd beg, steal and borrow all the capital I can get!!!! Why do you think there are huge debts problems amongst gamblers? They all think they could do it, they beg, steal and borrow to get a stake and most likely get into more debt. I'm sorry, but an excuse that your living expenses is being eaten away does not cut it - sorry. Again I'm not implying anything here.

Again I say, that is you and that is fine.

Let me ask you this.........if someone offered you 50% on your capital and all you had to do was kill one person a day, would you be willing to do it? Too extreme, I know. How about if all you had to do was eat and drink every bit of your own bodily waste product each day? Still too extreme. Maybe this, if all you had to do was work at a job you hated day in day out? Do you get the picture now? It is not about the money it is about doing something that you enjoy. Money can be made anywhere anyhow.

It seems to me you would be at least willing to take the third option. That is fine for you. Nothing wrong with that at all.

I just don't see why you feel the need to call someone else a liar simply because they would not be willing to do something they don't enjoy to make money. I also don't see why you think it is totally acceptable behaviour to do so.

That's right, and just like casual conversations amongst friends on a night out or something, everyone bigs up what they earn or how they know such and such a person that makes so much money. It's all show isn't it?

Sounds to me like you need some new friends. None of my friends do that on a night out. Now don't go calling me a liar just because our conversations aren't the same as yours ok!

In fact I think I begin to understand now why you can not understand the idea that money may not be the number one priority in every other persons life. If all you and your friends focus on is money it must seem like money is the most important thing and anyone claiming it isn't must be lying.

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[belflan]

And yet you can not seem to fathom why someone would quit doing something that is making them money because they don't enjoy doing it.

ahh, feck it, 4th come back, sick of this crap, people don't quit stuff that is making good money, i just dont know this to be reality (ever), i wish it was..,,,

 

[temptrader]

Again I say, that is you and that is fine.

Let me ask you this.........if someone offered you 50% on your capital and all you had to do was kill one person a day, would you be willing to do it? Too extreme, I know. How about if all you had to do was eat and drink every bit of your own bodily waste product each day? Still too extreme. Maybe this, if all you had to do was work at a job you hated day in day out? Do you get the picture now? It is not about the money it is about doing something that you enjoy. Money can be made anywhere anyhow.

It seems to me you would be at least willing to take the third option. That is fine for you. Nothing wrong with that at all.

I just don't see why you feel the need to call someone else a liar simply because they would not be willing to do something they don't enjoy to make money. I also don't see why you think it is totally acceptable behaviour to do so.

Sounds to me like you need some new friends. None of my friends do that on a night out. Now don't go calling me a liar just because our conversations aren't the same as yours ok!

In fact I think I begin to understand now why you can not understand the idea that money may not be the number one priority in every other persons life. If all you and your friends focus on is money it must seem like money is the most important thing and anyone claiming it isn't must be lying.

Cheers,
PKFFW

Here we go yet again. You seem to be totally obsessed with the notion that all I care about is money. You got it in your head almost and yet fail to read between the lines. Someone else was telling you, and now I'm telling you: stop being such a sanctimonious git.

And stop giving me these pointless examples. They mean nothing.

Money can be made anywhere anyhow

not true. Most of all in trading. Most cannot make it - and probably never will. If what you are saying applies to all human I am totally in the right to call you a liar. Most people on this earth hardly make any money - nor probably get a chance to (but that's another discussion).

And how on earth did you arrive at discussing about my friends or sociological background? What you are inferring is absurd and laughable.

 

[PKFFW]

PKFFW, you still don't understand me do you? I can call anyone whatever I like. Same applies to you. I did not call Damien a liar. There is a big difference between lying and not being honest with yourself. Gamblers do it all the time, and it's one of the major factors that makes their addiction so hard for them to break free from.

Oh I'm sorry, I thought saying someone is lying would be akin to calling them a liar. One can not be telling a lie if one is not at that moment being a liar afterall.

Of course you can call anyone whatever you like. Just like you can go and bash someone senseless with a baseball bat if you like. Doesn't mean it would be considered acceptable behaviour by the majority of society. That is why it is illegal to do so. Calling someone a liar is not illegal, nor is it on the same scale of magnitude as bashing them but it is still considered unaccaptable by society. At least if you have no evidence they are lying. That is why you can be sued for it in most cases.

Your preconcieved notions about gamblers not being honest with themselves has no bearing on this particular case.

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[temptrader]

Oh I'm sorry, I thought saying someone is lying would be akin to calling them a liar. One can not be telling a lie if one is not at that moment being a liar afterall.

Of course you can call anyone whatever you like. Just like you can go and bash someone senseless with a baseball bat if you like. Doesn't mean it would be considered acceptable behaviour by the majority of society. That is why it is illegal to do so. Calling someone a liar is not illegal, nor is it on the same scale of magnitude as bashing them but it is still considered unaccaptable by society. At least if you have no evidence they are lying. That is why you can be sued for it in most cases.

Your preconcieved notions about gamblers not being honest with themselves has no bearing on this particular case.

Cheers,
PKFFW

Right, so somehow you appoint yourself as guardian of people's public morals? So you are now judge, jury and executioner? But then I'd expect this stance from someone who serves the public, and although it is commendable that we have people like you putting your life on the line when the circumstances call for it, there is no need for you to take your "superior" attitude here.

You realise that I'm laughing at you, don't you?

Anyway, I'm off to sleep. There's plenty of group theory to do in the morning. (Mathematical group theory in case you infer otherwise).

 

[PKFFW]

Here we go yet again. You seem to be totally obsessed with the notion that all I care about is money. You got it in your head almost and yet fail to read between the lines. Someone else was telling you, and now I'm telling you: stop being such a sanctimonious git.

And stop giving me these pointless examples. They mean nothing.

Well you are the one who time and time again claim that people do not give up something that makes them money. You claim you and your friends big note themselves about how much money you all earn. You state you would "beg, borrow and steal" to get capital if you had a system that made you money.

Not sure which lines I'm supposed to read between but it seems pretty obvious to me that your priority is money.

As I've said many times, that is fine. Nothing wrong with that at all. Money is a very important part of life and should be a focus of everyone's.

My point is that simply because others do not make it the number one focus of their life doesn't give you the right to call them a liar. It's a pity you can't seem to understand that.

not true. Most of all in trading. Most cannot make it - and probably never will. If what you are saying applies to all human I am totally in the right to call you a liar. Most people on this earth hardly make any money - nor probably get a chance to (but that's another discussion).

I did not say money can be made by anyone by doing anything. I said money can be made anywhere anyhow. Will everyone who attempts to make big money do so? No. Does that mean they can't make big money? No. It means they failed to make big money at that particular endeavour. Your logical reasoning that this means they can't make big money is simply flawed.

And even if what I am saying is not right, you would still not be in the right to call me a liar. Lying requires two things. 1: Knowledge of what is right or correct. 2: The intent to decieve others by intentionally claiming something that is not right or correct.

I admit that in this case it is debatable if what I am saying is true or correct. You claim it is not and maybe it isn't. That you disagree with me is not proof that I am wrong. Nor is it proof that I am in full knowledge of what is correct. Nor is it proof that my intent to deceive.

And how on earth did you arrive at discussing about my friends or sociological background? What you are inferring is absurd and laughable.

That's right, and just like casual conversations amongst friends on a night out or something, everyone bigs up what they earn or how they know such and such a person that makes so much money.

Was I meant to read between the lines?

Cheers,
PKFFW