I Challenge U: Show me a profitable mechanical system. Minimum 20% return in a month.

[ali4rmlondon]

Gamma, perhaps you're seeing what you want to and ignoring what you don't.

Ali has been as personally rude to others as they have to him.

He doesn't need protecting. He needs to learn a lesson. Your attempts to protect him are misguided as you may well deprive him of the learnings he so much needs if he really is interested in getting into trading in any manner at all. If he comes across in reality anything like he does in these boards, he wont get too far, and he’ll likely get a smack for his trouble.

One of the primary benefits of this site is as an educational medium. Ali is getting an education. If he chooses to use it wisely, good for him. Makes no difference to me (or others) whether he does or not. But trying to get traders to be politically correct and protect the stupid is an endeavour doomed to failure.

Real life is not the Civil Service. Trading is definitely not the Civil Service.

Theres no need to protect me. And I didnt ask for protection. Gamma is just commenting with intelligence. Something you obviously lack. Im not getting education from no one. and I certainly dont want education from failures. If you are a successful trader and have something contructive to say then I am open minded to listen and learn, and grateful. But you are obviously not that. I think you are rather stupid.

 

[ali4rmlondon]

It isn't, you know, but porcentages are ok for the smaller trades. After that, it is better to base profits on an amount. What is exceptional is that one would take a person on, like Ali.

His "prove it" crap and insulting behaviour shows what kind of mentality he has. Who would want him as an equal partner. He would be more worry than he is worth.

I dont mean to insult anyone, especially you. Hope you dont feel insulted. a fixed amount every month sounds interesting. Do get in touch.

 

[Atilla]

Hey lets look at the facts.
I asked you to prove to me if you are a successful trader. You cant do that. Instead you write nonsense and make analogies which are flawed.
Lets read what you have written. You're thinking is not logical, maybe because your stressing yourself to make a point which you dont have.

If someone has a system that makes 20% per month, and goes in front of the dens asking for investments. Wouldnt the investors want to see prove of his return? obviously they will not invest without proof. So far you follow me yh? ur ok with that? lol. Ok. Now in this picture Im the investor but can you prove your making money and are successful?

Afraid I fail in your challenge as I don't make 20% a month.

I'm sorry I misunderstood your proposal.

 

[ali4rmlondon]

Afraid I fail in your challenge as I don't make 20% a month.

I'm sorry I misunderstood your proposal.

I admire your honesty in this. I hope others will follow. Thanks.

 

[westernforce]

I think you are rather stupid.

next post

I dont mean to insult anyoneQUOTE]

Interesting....

I challenge you to prove to me that you are not insulting people. If you can't do that, then that's fine, but I only want to do business with honest, respectable people who insult others less than 20% of the time.

 

[trendie]

You guys cant prove nothing to me. Instead you discuss some geezers profile on some site to move away from the subject.

I asked for you to prove me that you are a successful trader. If you are not a successful trader then dont post in this thread.
If you are a successful trader but dont want to prove then thats fine. I dont have nothing against you. But dont start insulting me personally and relating me to someone I dont know. And dont start writing posts acting like you know everything and pretending to be successful.

If you are a successful trader but dont want to prove, but will help this new trader, like a few of you are, for example, gamma, trendie and others who have pm'ed me then I appreciate it.

Please I dont want to insult you personally, because I dont know you. Lets grow up alittle bit please. I dont need education from people who are failures.

Thank you.
Ali.

[my emphasis added]

erm, I feel a little clarification is needed here, due to the nature of this thread, and the inference that could be made by alis post above.

Ali sent me a PM FIRST, asking to recommend any mechanical systems.

My reply simply reiterated what I have already said in this thread that Grey1, trader_dante, wasp and Captain Currency are a good place to start. Main reasons being many members seem to be using those methods, and therefore there is a supportive atmosphere, which newbies really need.

I also pointed out the need to understand his own psychology and about money management.

The PM that ali is referring to is a REPLY to his question.
I dont want anyone to think I was proactively sending advice to anyone, or seeking his £10K.
ok?

 

[new_trader]

[my emphasis added]

erm, I feel a little clarification is needed here, due to the nature of this thread, and the inference that could be made by alis post above.

Ali sent me a PM FIRST, asking to recommend any mechanical systems.

My reply simply reiterated what I have already said in this thread that Grey1, trader_dante, wasp and Captain Currency are a good place to start. Main reasons being many members seem to be using those methods, and therefore there is a supportive atmosphere, which newbies really need.

I also pointed out the need to understand his own psychology and about money management.

The PM that ali is referring to is a REPLY to his question.
I dont want anyone to think I was proactively sending advice to anyone, or seeking his £10K.
ok?

[My Emphasis Added]

Why would anyone think that a T2W ADVISOR is proactively sending advice to anyone? If I remember rightly, I was threatened with being banned for publicly disclosing a PM.

Ali thanked you for helping him but rather than graciously accepting it you quickly disassociated yourself in case the mob turns on you....coward.

 

[trendie]

[My Emphasis Added]

Why would anyone think that a T2W ADVISOR is proactively sending advice to anyone? If I remember rightly, I was threatened with being banned for publicly disclosing a PM.

Ali thanked you for helping him but rather than graciously accepting it you quickly disassociated yourself in case the mob turns on you....coward.

Alis thanks is welcome, although as I said it could be inferred that I sent my PM first, without asking.

I have not disassociated myself from anything, quickly or slowly.
I am clarifying that the PM that is being referred to was a REPLY.
I stand by my posts here. I stand by the contents of my PM.

I have not disclosed a PM, only in general terms the contents (and no personal information disclosed). Your potentiual banning was probably deserved, but this is not the place for it.

re: coward - bog off.

 

[Splitlink]

I said that it is possible to make 20%, not that I do that. But I make enough, consistently, to know that it is possible for someone more aggressive than I to do it--- but at what cost?

I am retired, on a pension and only trade mornings. I'm happy to try for a fixed number of points per month. I believe that tranquility is a large part of success in trading. Once the fixation that large targets are an essential part of it comes into the equation, one starts to look for patterns that are not there, with the corresponding risks.

20% porcentages must not enter into my trading philosophy. They mean that you are trying to hit targets that become more unlikely the more that the capital base grows. IMO, it is easier to decide how much one would wish to make and go for that. That becomes easier the larger the capital base grows. In other words, greed is a major component of failure. Peace of mind is a major factor of success in trading, but with a businesslike attitude, otherwise one can become careless.

Split

 

[TheBramble]

Split, I'm almost loathe to contribute sensibly to a thread that doesn’t deserve it, but this 20% and target thing is getting some strange, to my mind, spin placed upon it.

Any consistently profitable trading system on average nets an X% profit per N time periods. It’s simply a mathematical fact. It’s not necessarily a target, just the effect of the system(s) and way you trade them. And apart from my lone bleat on the issue regarding withdrawals from a growing capital base, nobody else appears to be taking anything out of their trading capital, or perhaps few have yet to get to that point where they can. I don’t say this out of any sense of hubris (I don’t think so, well, not much anyway), but out of a sense of wonder that this is surely the WHOLE POINT of trading – to make money to use on living, or ‘operational expenses’ as it appears on my accounts (LOL).

I don’t trade everyday. I take longish breaks from trading for other business. I’ve just come back from a 5 week trip and didn’t look at the markets once during that period. But on average, I make a tad under 1% on days that I trade. This average includes the super-hot days (a few 3%-ers so far this year) and the not-so-hot (a memorable -8% day when the bloody market simply wouldn’t do what it was told to do).

But even with this sort of return, which I’m more than happy with, and taking out the variable wedge that I do to fund my obscene excess of a lifestyle, I’m still building the base strongly. BUT, and here’s the thing, even at a reasonable rate of growth after withdrawals, I’m not getting too worried just yet about getting size on. FX is quite a liquid beastie. I shall be delighted to report back when I’m at a stage where I’m beginning to move the markets with my trades or I’m having trouble getting a fill.

I used to be able to move the markets when I first started out trading. I’d put a trade on and the markets would move. Immediately. In the other direction. Even when I faded myself.

 

[gamma]

Hello,
I have been looking in this site and others for a profitable mechanical system. I have not come across any that give at least a return of 20% per month and are consistantly profitable without risking high amounts. I have some money which I was hoping to trade with. I personally don't think there are any such system.

Here is my challenge to you. If you can prove me wrong, then I am willing to give you $10,000 of my money to trade with. We work together as equal partners.

I look forward to your constructive replies.
Thank you.
Ali

I have one final comment on this issue.
I have not seen anywhere in Ali's post that he was asking for the sum to be compounded.I am sure he is aware of the complications associated with compounding.
I am also very pleased to see that the thread has returned to the issue in question which is "This 20% return a month"
It is great to have a nice fiery debate without getting personal.
Ali, thankyou for starting the thread and all those who gave positive critcism.
It is possibly time for Ali to ask the Mods to close it now, as its effectivness is probably exhausted.

 

[Gumping]

...on average, I make a tad under 1% on days that I trade. This average includes the super-hot days (a few 3%-ers so far this year) and the not-so-hot (a memorable -8% day when the bloody market simply wouldn’t do what it was told to do).

...

I used to be able to move the markets when I first started out trading. I’d put a trade on and the markets would move. Immediately. In the other direction. Even when I faded myself.

those buggers

I'm a failure I'm afraid - I'm single-digit %'age every month. Still, if I increased my risk....

 

[rathcoole_exile]

Still, if I increased my risk....

have you signed up for spanish's new online training course ?

he even throws in a free hamburger - perk of his new day job ......

 

[TheBramble]

I'm a failure I'm afraid - I'm single-digit %'age every month. Still, if I increased my risk....

Interesting you mention that...I wondered that too.

When I set my risk lower, I made less in precise proportion to the reduction of risk and felt almost bored as it wasn't worth the trouble and effort and exposure. I also found I was tending to take more trades, the ones I’d normally let go by as they weren’t of AAA quality. Effectively trading lower quality and therefore taking on higher risk. Crazy.

When I increased my risk, I performed barely any better in absolute terms and much worse in relative terms than with my ‘normal’ risk level. No doubt I could train myself to trade increasingly higher levels of risk, but why would I? I don’t see the need to do so. It’s taken such a long time, with the help of some key bods on here, to get to a point where I can trade this way that I’m not easily going to move away from the 1% rule. It’s served me too well.

The other point I didn’t address as fully as I should in my previous post was the use of targets. They just add pressure to an endeavour for which you should be finding ways to eliminate, or at the very least, reduce pressure. I’ve not worked in a corporate trading environment so can’t comment first hand, but imagine the introduction of targets does nothing to increase the performance of one’s trading. The only time I’ve ever used them is to force badly performing systems to give me what I want. Strangely, that didn’t work. Even reducing my targets didn’t seem to make the market love me to any greater degree either. Even when I tried tricking the market by giving myself negative targets in line with my recent loss profile, thinking it would wilfully disobey me to my favour, it suddenly decided to come in line and match my awful expectations.

Keep the risk small. Forget arbitrary targets.

 

[KillPhil08]

What if he was asking for the same system but offering 25k, 50k or even 100k ?

 

[trendie]

What if he was asking for the same system but offering 25k, 50k or even 100k ?

stranger and stranger.
..........

unfortunately, you are going to be the weak-hand in all this.
a: you are relying on someone else to generate the revenue. the trader may demand more than a 50/50 split. say, 80/20 in the traders favour.
b:the trading system will be the traders intellectual property.
c: I seriously doubt the trader will impart the rules so easily to anyone
d: no matter what kind of partnership you aspire to, the trader will be savvy enough not to tie himself down to a restrictive deal.

at any time, the trader will be the crucial component, and if he falls ill, or gets run over by a bus, how will you cope?

if even you get someone, sooner or later the revenue from investors will simply accelerate the point at which the trader has enough of his own money to one day send you a postcard from the Bahamas with the legend "I resign".
.......

all things being equal, the time-frame from joining the partnership and sending the "I resign" postcard would be reduced.

the trader with a successful system still has the upper hand - that doesnt change.

(sorry for posting all over the place today, but the GBPUSD gave me a super, no hassle 75 pips from a possible 120 pip move. made up till Thursday.)

 

[TWI]

If this is a market then here's my bid.
OK, anybody show me a system that generates 10%/month and I will give them $100k to trade and we split profits. If after 6 months still on course I add another $100k and so on until we find capacity.
Caveat: It has to survive my due dilligence which will include full disclosure.
This is genuine offer: pm me if you think your hard enough, no b/s artists, nigerian fraudsters, astrological traders or idiots please.

 

[Hoggums]

If this is a market then here's my bid.
OK, anybody show me a system that generates 10%/month and I will give them $100k to trade and we split profits. If after 6 months still on course I add another $100k and so on until we find capacity.
Caveat: It has to survive my due dilligence which will include full disclosure.
This is genuine offer: pm me if you think your hard enough, no b/s artists, nigerian fraudsters, astrological traders or idiots please.

Ah there's the crux - I could easily show you an auto system that made 10% per month over the last 20 years (on average!) but will it make 10% per month over the next year or 20 years?

I dunno. I cannot prove it to you either. Ask me in 20 years!

And to be honest I don't want the hassle of potentially losing someone else's money. I can afford to find out for myself.

 

[grantx]

DEar Mr TwI,

My naim is Gogre SorRos and GraNTx haz bean investings on me behalf for over 1yeer. Hee regularlly makes me monthly a proffitt for me of over 12 persent per munth every munth. I woulld ave know objecshuns to you’re $100,000k investings in our fundz . I trusst my naime carries some wayt and you does not ave to see the accowntz wich is very secerative in secret Lichenstayn and has very much tippex on hit.

Goerge SooRros,
Geneever

 

[MrGecko]

DEar Mr TwI,

My naim is Gogre SorRos and GraNTx haz bean investings on me behalf for over 1yeer. Hee regularlly makes me monthly a proffitt for me of over 12 persent per munth every munth. I woulld ave know objecshuns to you’re $100,000k investings in our fundz . I trusst my naime carries some wayt and you does not ave to see the accowntz wich is very secerative in secret Lichenstayn and has very much tippex on hit.

Goerge SooRros,
Geneever

Who are you trying to fool??!! We can all clearly see that you are in Monoco!