"GREAT" Britain

[redart]

So they're constantly gloomy and sad and whiney because they're constantly thinking: "Why am I wasting my life going to a stupid job for 10 hours a day when i could be living off of Government handouts, sacraficing SOME of the money I am getting now, but in return getting my fredom back"
Is that what we're saying?

 

[Beakytrader]

In all seriousness, i do think education is a major factor. I was lucky, my mum sweated 2 jobs to put me through public school.I learnt respect, discipline, a work ethic, etc, which sadly seems to be lacking nowdays. Look at the tv progs that are popular- britains got talent, x factor etc- brain dead people watching and entering believing that they are talented, if only they can be discovered. What feeds this self delusion? How many do you reckon could list any of Shakespeares works, could tell you who Plato was, have any conception of the law of diminishing returns?
We are churning out young people who are unemployable, with worthless qualifications, who cant finish a sentence without, innit?To the arsewipe who suggested the Antartic, 23 yrs old, such a big boy!Grow up ar--WIPE, I guarantee you'll be singing a different hymn in 20 yrs time.

She must be so proud..:innocent:[/QUOTE]
She is very proud, thanks for asking. Especially the house i bought for her.
Next!!!
:cheesy:

 

[Beakytrader]

Ok Gentleman can we summarise the points of interest at the present time?
1. In the UK it appears that it is potentially more beneficial to take state handouts than to get a job? Well to me, thats a given.
2. The moral aspect- what decent person would choose such a route. Plenty it seems.
3. How can the problem be addressed? Thats the big one- why slog your guts out if you can claim decent money for doing nothing?
I have no idea of a solution, hence my aim to get away from it, just wondered what everyone else thought.

 

[0007]

..........
3. How can the problem be addressed? Thats the big one- why slog your guts out if you can claim decent money for doing nothing?
I have no idea of a solution, hence my aim to get away from it, just wondered what everyone else thought.

It's a big problem and it won't be solved overnight - it's now cultural and ingrained. The realisation that you could freeload and not get off your ass started with the post WW2 Labour government's well-intentioned (and yet for some people a deserved leg-up onto the improvement ladder) social welfare programme. The state we are now in, has developed over several generations ie 65 years and will take at least a generation to reverse - so yes, if you want to miss the screaming & wailing make your expat plans now.

The problem is that many believe that you can freeload and that the "rich" will pay. But the sums don't add up and the rich are often rich because they ain't stupid and won't hang around to be mugged by socialism. As for fairness, remember Maggie's Poll-tax? - all that did was to require everyone to pay their fair share: but it resulted in a complete political shambles because of the freeloaders.

Whether the Coalition will turn the tide will be interesting to see; but these sort of changes are like "Nessie" - much talked about but rarely seen. Until a lot more people begin to or are forced to understand that the State (which has no money of its own, just our filched taxes) doesn't owe them a living, then things won't improve.

 

[kimo'sabby]

Now you know why then ...middle britain paying too much in taxes to keep that sorry ass bunch of loser scrounging scum bags sat on their asses.

Which scumbags are you on about, MPs or bankers?

I don't see why morals have to be included in the subject of money, in general the human race has never had morals about money.

What about all the people who have borrowed too much and now can't pay it back? Greedy little beggers who have no more moral substance than the so called scroungers etc.

Fred Goodwin, this guy is the icon of the 'noughties, a good representitive to highlight certain 'facts' about human nature.

 

[redart]

the human race has never had morals about money.

I'd have to agree with this.

 

[barjon]

............I don't see why morals have to be included in the subject of money, in general the human race has never had morals about money..........

I don't think that's right at all. All societies will fracture unless its members operate within a generally accepted moral code of what's "right" and "wrong". At the top end that moral code is headlined by the Law, but that of itself is not enough and has to be supported by each individual's proper sense of "right" and "wrong".

In business, for example, it used to be a matter of shame to go bankrupt whereas today there are far too many who see it as a legitimate business tactic.

Similarly, it used to be that benefits were regarded as charity which people were reluctant to accept unless desperate. Today there are far too many who merely see it as an income enhancer (replacement) whether they need it or not.

With the falling influence of the church (of any creed) it is up to government to instill the moral code in society. And they've been doing a right poor job of it for years.

jon

 

[Trader333]

What about all the people who have borrowed too much and now can't pay it back?

So an example would be the government borrowing too much to pay for the scroungers who think it is ok to live on handouts and never work but which has very little in means to be able to pay it back.


Paul

 

[Splitlink]

Still, it only takes a maverick to upset the apple cart and much big business has a core of rotteness which is, really, why the socialists won power in the first place. The Church, too, has lost power for the same reason.

Nevertheless, Jon, I see what you are getting at. Businessmen, of whatever level, should trust each other if they are going to successfully screw everyone else. otherwise they would not be able to make an honest crust anywhere.

I like it down in writing and signed, personally.

This BP crisis may bring the out the best of human values on the beaches but, mark my words, that will not be matched by similar acts behind closed office doors. Every man for himself!

 

[kimo'sabby]

I don't think that's right at all. All societies will fracture unless its members operate within a generally accepted moral code of what's "right" and "wrong". At the top end that moral code is headlined by the Law, but that of itself is not enough and has to be supported by each individual's proper sense of "right" and "wrong".

In business, for example, it used to be a matter of shame to go bankrupt whereas today there are far too many who see it as a legitimate business tactic.

Similarly, it used to be that benefits were regarded as charity which people were reluctant to accept unless desperate. Today there are far too many who merely see it as an income enhancer (replacement) whether they need it or not.

With the falling influence of the church (of any creed) it is up to government to instill the moral code in society. And they've been doing a right poor job of it for years.

jon

Don't get me wrong i'm not saying that the majority of people are evil, i actually think that the opposite is true.

I do believe that money brings out the worst traits in people, borrowing too much, gambling, greed, resentment, jealousy etc etc.

 

[dick_dastardly]

I don't see why morals have to be included in the subject of money, in general the human race has never had morals about money.

Many cultures, past and present believe it is morally wrong to pay or make interest on money


dd

 

[bhavin]

prime minister, David Cameron, warned that the U.K.'s fiscal position is "even worse than we thought." He went on to say that "How we deal with these things will affect our economy, our society — indeed our whole way of life."

 

[bhavin]

Britain's total debt load has already risen to $1.12 trillion.

Yet the Bloody press and left wingers AND opposition are saying DO NOT CUT!
If we dont put pressure on government, and ask them to seriously look at approx 10 MILLION plus people on benefits, then we as a nation are doomed!

 

[bhavin]

"Debt is a form of poverty - and one of the cruelest. It gives you the illusion of having more money than you do."

-- Jerrold Mundis

 

[Black Swan]

"Debt is a form of poverty - and one of the cruelest. It gives you the illusion of having more money than you do."

-- Jerrold Mundis

Debt is slavery...the UK's muddled classes are, for the most part, a nation of debt slaves and this nonsensical austerity, to be unleashed by the 38 yr old totally unqualified Gideon Osborne, will not eradicate that position. What we're witnessing is a battle of political ideology that has nothing to do with economics...

Pensions, asset values, savings, silly buy to let portfolios will be smashed by these policies.. quite why the ambitiously wealthy cabinet wants to see a revision back to 1995 asset values is a mystery, but then again our parliament is simply a squawk box in relation to the G20 and more specifically the EU...so they've had their orders...

 

[Marwan2010]

Greece has finally bowed to unrelenting attacks from global investors and is slashing 30 billion euros from its budget in three years.

Spain, also under massive pressure from investors, has announced spending cuts of 15 billion euros, plus a 5 percent reduction in public worker wages.

Portugal is getting ready to embark on a program to cut 2 billion euros this year alone.

Italy is slashing 25 billion euros from its budget over the next two years.

Germany, supposedly the most robust of all euro-zone countries, has no choice but to follow a similar path — cutbacks of 85 billion euros by 2014.

 

[Marwan2010]

Pensions, asset values, savings, silly buy to let portfolios will be smashed by these policies.. ..

well not a bad thing if the buy to let are smashed!, at least it gives the FTB a chance to get back on the ladder!.

 

[Trader333]

Black Swan,

So how would you solve this issue ?


Paul

 

[Marwan2010]

Hopefully a share of $1 Trillion Afghan reserves may help UK. the West is an "expert" in "stealing" reserves from the poor countries

 

[Black Swan]

Black Swan,

So how would you solve this issue ?


Paul

I've wrestled intellectually with this problem for approx. 4 years now...IMHO there is no solution using standard fiscal and monetary policy with basic Keynesian or Austrian school policy; it's way past 'healing' using either...

We either accept zero growth and 2 generations of stagflation and a continued transfer of wealth and assets to the wealthiest as debt we didn't create or ask for is socialised onto us all in order to protect the worshipped capitalist system, (whilst the global village attempts to find an equilibrium wage level at richer nations expense), or we riot and I mean a unified organised global 'pull down' of everything and start again to reach that zenith of equilibrium more quickly.

IMHO we reached an end of days event horizon in relation to capitalism in 2008, in 500 years time it'll be interesting to witness how this period of history is recalled..one thing's for sure an ever expanding money supply, whilst permanently protecting the 0.01% of the super wealthiest's assets cannot compute...So in short whilst the current crop of linked elite decision makers are at the helm, making decisions for their political survival versus the benefit of the greater good, the problem/s is IMHO insoluble. A financial purge of the system was required in 2001, then in 2006, then in 2008...the current scarily linked ideologies of the EU the UK and the US and the rapid agreement they have reached to stop markets from imploding suggests that they're too wedded to political self preservation to make objective decisions..The only weapon they now have is austerity (other than armed forces and police which they'll spend as much as nec. on) and whilst a willing and complict media will tell us saving is the new spending and holidays in Talacre are the new Tobago we'll quickly come to realise that thee illusion of middle income wealth which took perhaps a couple of decades to create can be extinguised in seconds...

We're fooked... So just keep taking units out of the markets, pay as little tax as possible, realise there's fook all you and me can do about it and have a blast knowing that our kids will hopefully see it all for the sham it is...