Edge/Spread

wackypete2 said:
This is a ridiculous statement. Even with no comm and no spread 90/95% will still lose becasue they have not figured out HOW to win. Would they still be in Utopia if they lost?

IMO, being a disciplined trader offers a much bigger edge than no spreads/comm.

Lower spreads and comm rates are better of course, but the best edge you will ever find is within yourself. Figure out what it takes to be a winner (in trading and life) and you won't care about the spread or commissions.

Peter
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Agreed. Spreads are ridiculously tight now, it's not a bearing on overall P/L for a moderate frequency strategy. As for commission, I'm running at 0.2 pct of total equity so far this year. I fail to see how making this equal to zero is going to make a material difference.
 
oildaytrader said:
Old farts hanging around forums always feel they have an edge, but do these farts really have an edge?

Spread edge counts for zero if trader gets delayed execution.oL FART gets filled in a crap market and never gets filled in a trending highly profitable market, or gets filled on low profitable days.

Just another fart thinking he has an edge.

O D T
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As the poster on this thread with the highest number of posts (excluding the moderator), presumably you are referring to yourself when you mention "old farts"?
 
wackypete2 said:
This is a ridiculous statement. Even with no comm and no spread 90/95% will still lose becasue they have not figured out HOW to win. Would they still be in Utopia if they lost?

IMO, being a disciplined trader offers a much bigger edge than no spreads/comm.

Lower spreads and comm rates are better of course, but the best edge you will ever find is within yourself. Figure out what it takes to be a winner (in trading and life) and you won't care about the spread or commissions.

Peter
Click to expand...

Of course! I am delighted that the SBs (some of them) are lowering their spreads to 1 point but the higher spreads did not put me off before. How can the spread of the FT affect the outcome of move when it is capable of 30-50 points in a morning?

My opinion of those who are concerned about cutting 0,5 off the spread is that they are nit-picking and, really, should be concerning themselves with the probable outcome of their entry.

Anyone worried about these spreads is scalping and should ask himself if he is cut out for that kind of stress.
 
:)
meanreversion said:
As the poster on this thread with the highest number of posts (excluding the moderator), presumably you are referring to yourself when you mention "old farts"?
Click to expand...

:D

Hey! Don't leave me out of this!

I am the original eater of iron bars, who farts tin-tacks!
 
meanreversion said:
Agreed. Spreads are ridiculously tight now, it's not a bearing on overall P/L for a moderate frequency strategy. As for commission, I'm running at 0.2 pct of total equity so far this year. I fail to see how making this equal to zero is going to make a material difference.
Click to expand...


Refers to empty cans making dour sounds i.e unprofitable traders with crap trading skills and strategies ,people who have never traded a live account profitably..Spread makes a lot of difference to profitability,execution being equal with low spread and high spread brokers.

In a trending market , waiting for fills at limit orders will result in many non fills.If 30 to 40 % of your profitable opportunities never get filled and losing opportunities get filled , your positive expectancy will become negative expectancy.

In a ranging market spread savings make a load of difference to overall profitability, targets are altered by spread savings.
 
oildaytrader said:
Refers to empty cans making dour sounds i.e unprofitable traders with crap trading skills and strategies ,people who have never traded a live account profitably..Spread makes a lot of difference to profitability,execution being equal with low spread and high spread brokers.

In a trending market , waiting for fills at limit orders will result in many non fills.If 30 to 40 % of your profitable opportunities never get filled and losing opportunities get filled , your positive expectancy will become negative expectancy.

In a ranging market spread savings make a load of difference to overall profitability, targets are altered by spread savings.
Click to expand...

More gibberish.

So, on one hand, crossing spreads is detrimental to the trading account, but on the other, it's not really that important because if you try to buy on the bid/sell on the offer, you might miss that really big move.

So let's see. If I KNOW that the market is ranging, I work bids and offers, but if I KNOW the market is trending, I just pay the offer/give the bid. So basically if I can see into the future I can save myself money. Thanks ODDT, you have enlightened us once again.
 
meanreversion said:
More gibberish.

So, on one hand, crossing spreads is detrimental to the trading account, but on the other, it's not really that important because if you try to buy on the bid/sell on the offer, you might miss that really big move.

So let's see. If I KNOW that the market is ranging, I work bids and offers, but if I KNOW the market is trending, I just pay the offer/give the bid. So basically if I can see into the future I can save myself money. Thanks ODDT, you have enlightened us once again.
Click to expand...

I knew you are a clever boy and can determine a ranging market from a trending market.One can see a trend easily with a large atr move , with peaks and troughs , or just a straight line move or a choppy , but one can still see it.

Only dumb trend traders go bottom fishing for trends , let the market tell you and try not to out guess the market.Unless a trend is established , it is a ranging market until it starts trending.
 
Hustlerscreed ,.... Why all the time frames?
Are they "all" paramount to your strategy?
Would confuse the hell out of me, trying to trade so many perspectives,.....
 
oildaytrader said:
I knew you are a clever boy and can determine a ranging market from a trending market.One can see a trend easily with a large atr move , with peaks and troughs , or just a straight line move or a choppy , but one can still see it.

Unless a trend is established , it is a ranging market until it starts trending.
Click to expand...

So let's say you're happily working bids and offers in a ranging market, selling highs and buying lows. Then one day the market breaks out and moves sharply higher. You've missed the move.. furthermore, as you continue to work bids, you won't get filled, so you're missing the move.

Your trend indicator, whatever it is (ADX?) is LAGGING and will only tell you AFTER the event what has happened.

But nevermind. Let's assume you know at any given second precisely what state the market is in and will continue to be in for the immediate future. Tell me, is EUR/USD in a range right now, or is it trending?
 
meanreversion said:
But nevermind. Let's assume you know at any given second precisely what state the market is in and will continue to be in for the immediate future. Tell me, is EUR/USD in a range right now, or is it trending?
Click to expand...


It is in 50 /50 territory , it could be trending on tick frame and ranging within a 30/50 pip range on hourlies.
 
hustlerscreed said:
well because any real tader needs them,
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:rolleyes::whistle:lol:

Sorry , but I find it hard to believe that it is possible to become a profitable trader without realising that there are many ways to succeed, including ones which do not involve multiple TFs.

Might give the chat room a miss for now :rolleyes:.
 
William Waller said:
:rolleyes::whistle:lol:

Sorry , but I find it hard to believe that it is possible to become a profitable trader without realising that there are many ways to succeed, including ones which do not involve multiple TFs.

Might give the chat room a miss for now :rolleyes:.
Click to expand...

Mr Waller, you're clueless. Don't you realise that a trader's P/L is proportional to the number of charts he looks at multiplied by the number of screens he has?

In a similar fashion, it's important to have as many swing thoughts as possible at the top of your backswing in golf, if you're ever going to play well.
 
meanreversion said:
Mr Waller, you're clueless. Don't you realise that a trader's P/L is proportional to the number of charts he looks at multiplied by the number of screens he has?

In a similar fashion, it's important to have as many swing thoughts as possible at the top of your backswing in golf, if you're ever going to play well.
Click to expand...

(y):LOL:

Ah, I stand corrected! Thank you, I now realise (like so many others) that there is in fact only one way to do things.
 
I've had a couple of screens installed behind my chair, showing graphs for various markets on differing timeframes, along with a pot pourri of indicators (Bollinger Bands, RSI, MACD and so on). I can't actually see them, but my profitability has increased significantly since I had them installed.
 
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