Are you doing God's Work?

[trendie]

God exists, God exists in each and everyone of us.

If God did not exist, then the word God would not be uttered, and so God exists.

No man exists without God.

Unicorns exist, Unicorns exist in each and everyone of us.

If Unicorns did not exist, then the word Unicorn would not be uttered, and so Unicorns exist.

No man exists without Unicorns.

 

[MrGecko]

Ontological Argument

1. If I am thinking of the Greatest Being Thinkable, then I can think of no being greater
1a. If it is false that I can think of no being greater, it is false I am thinking of the Greatest Being Thinkable
2. Being is greater than not being
3. If the being I am thinking of does not exist, then it is false that I can think of no being greater.
4. If the being I am thinking of does not exist, then it is false that I am thinking of the Greatest Being Thinkable

Conclusion: If I am thinking of the Greatest Being Thinkable, then I am thinking of a being that exists

 

[arabianights]

Sir, that's a bit like:

1. One, and only one, of the following statements is true:
2. God exists
3. Statements 1 & 2 are false.

Russell had something to say about this sort of nonsense.

Anyway, back to the matter in hand... who else found this hilarious - a copied and pasted part 18 of the SEC case against Goldman:

At the same time, GS&Co recognized that market conditions were presenting
challenges to the successful marketing of COO transactions backed by mortgage-related
securities. For example, portions of an email in French and English sent by Tourre to a friend
on January 23, 2007 stated, in English translation where applicable: "More and more leverage
in the system, The whole building is about to collapse anytime now...Onlypotential survivor,
the fabulous Fab[rice Tourre] ... standing in the middle of all these complex, highly leveraged,
exotic trades he created without necessarily understanding all of the implications of those
monstruosities!!!" Similarly, an email on February 11,2007 to Tourre from the head of the
GS&Co structUred product correlation trading desk stated in part, "the cdo biz is dead we don't
have a lot of time left."

I'm tempted to change my name to "Fabulous Fab" in homage.

 

[montmorencyt2w]

I'm trying to understand the implications of a word like "monstruosities".

 

[chilltrader]

Goldman Sachs (NYSE: GS - news) was doing God's work' - but it is now being investigated for fraud

 

[oildaytrader]

Judas the traitor will soon claim " insider trading tips is doing god's work"

Goldman Sachs is not involved in insider deals , tips,fraud ,scams etc.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/worl...s-on-goldman-stock-us-says-20100419-smx4.html

 

[Hoggums]

The bible says man was made in the image of god.

But I firmly believe that it was in fact god that was made in the image of man.

Religion has done much to serve those in charge of the church and control the masses under them to subserve to their will.

 

[Trader333]

Religion has done much to serve those in charge of the church and control the masses under them to subserve to their will.

So have all belief systems with the most prolific of all being Communism. More people were killed under the communist belief systems and leadership than all previous wars put together.


Paul

 

[jazzidee]

Which work are you talking about? In case you don't know there are many gods.

 

[MrGecko]

More than one God is against the Christian image of God, which is what I believe is being referenced here.

Of course you are right, but also comparing apples and oranges.

 

[Hoggums]

So have all belief systems with the most prolific of all being Communism. More people were killed under the communist belief systems and leadership than all previous wars put together.


Paul

Trader333 you are right - you look at 2 of the recent atheist societies and they were under the Nazis and Stalin. I guess without religion there are no consequences for your actions and therefore no boundaries. One to ponder.

 

[MrGecko]

There is very little to split between religious ideology and political ideology anyway

 

[Jack o'Clubs]

Trader333 you are right - you look at 2 of the recent atheist societies and they were under the Nazis and Stalin. I guess without religion there are no consequences for your actions and therefore no boundaries. One to ponder.

Not necessarily - Dawkins' book The God Delusion has a whole chapter on Hitler and Stalin on the basis that its the most common criticism of atheism that he comes up against, ie the idea that the lack of a moral framework leads to monsters.

He makes two points, first that although Stalin was atheist its doubtful that Hitler was - he certainly had some belief system even if it wasn't 'pure' Christianity: in any case he thought he was accountable to some higher power.

His other argument is that while Stalin and Hitler were evil, what they did was not in the name of atheism but in a belief system (ie communism/Stalinism and fascism) that they were convinced was 'right' - much as previous religious leaders had done terrible things believing what they were doing was 'right' even if the means justifying the ends were messy. He points out that no wars have been fought in the name of atheism although as many as you like have been fought for religions.

Dawkins finishes with a nice quote from the Roman philosopher Seneca: 'religion is believed by common men to be true, by wise men to be false, and by rulers to be useful.'

Anyway, compared with what RC priests seem to have been up to, Goldman's sins appear almost saintly...

 

[jazzidee]

More than one God is against the Christian image of God, which is what I believe is being referenced here.

Of course you are right, but also comparing apples and oranges.

The so called christian god is actually three gods in one. Again, which god's work is being referred to? Religious people are the most confused people in this world which is one of the main reasons why most people fail at trading or investment. They subconsciously think that because they believe in a supernatural power, then that automatically mean they will succeed at what they are doing. In fact it's quite the opposite, since knowing is better than believing. We should stop putting all the responsibility on god and take control of our lives because he/she gave us all the tools to accomplish what we want.

 

[trendie]

Trader333 you are right - you look at 2 of the recent atheist societies and they were under the Nazis and Stalin. I guess without religion there are no consequences for your actions and therefore no boundaries. One to ponder.

it's the "fear" of consequences that keeps people in check.
maybe humans are inherently evil, and will commit crimes if they felt they could get away with it.
perhaps religion provides that over-arching fear of being watched/judged. sad.

when speaking to religious types, I am always struck that their behaviour is determined by the prospect of reward or punishment, rather than any personal sense of altruism or "goodness". Even here, their good acts are done to win brownie points with the man-in-the-sky rather than for another person.

EDIT: I CAN'T BELIEVE I AM POSTING DURING A TRADING WEEK. I AM SUPPOSED TO BE CUTTING DOWN. Can you get T2W posting-patches to wean myself off?

 

[MrGecko]

It has been too long since I have engaged in a serious religious discussion, and to be honest my experience of it on trading forums hasn't been good. The fact of the matter is that you can't really take these discussions into any depth without all agreeing you are talking about the same thing from the outset (e.g. Christian / non-Christian God, "the man in the sky with a beard" God, the concept of God etc..). In my experience it is difficult to discuss philosophy without referenceing a particular text / movement and negotiating your way around one specific point. Alas, I don't have much hope for that here.

Added to that you get the nuts that just wade in.

Anyhow, I would like to highlight this....

which is one of the main reasons why most people fail at trading or investment. They subconsciously think that because they believe in a supernatural power, then that automatically mean they will succeed at what they are doing.

... part of your post, along with something Arabian said earlier:

This is a concept called "God of the Gaps"

... because, along with Plato's allegory of the Cave, they help to form some of my fundamental beliefs about the market.



God of the Gaps
Allegory of the Cave

 

[MrGecko]

when speaking to religious types, I am always struck that their behaviour is determined by the prospect of reward or punishment, rather than any personal sense of altruism or "goodness". Even here, their good acts are done to win brownie points with the man-in-the-sky rather than for another person.

You're talking to the wrong people mate

EDIT: I'm not going to get into this seriously, and I'm not going to sit here and get accused of being a member of the "God squad" either... but all I will say is that there is a difference between the popular image of organised religion and Faith.

 

[Trader333]

Dawkins finishes with a nice quote from the Roman philosopher Seneca: 'religion is believed by common men to be true, by wise men to be false, and by rulers to be useful.'

Who is anyone to say what is wise and what is not ?

Dawkins is as vehemently anti-religion as extremists are pro religion. He is playing the same record only backwards in my view. You can see this in his attempt to have the RC Pope arrested when his visits the UK and he only dares to do this because he knows that no RC will do anything extreme to prevent it. I doubt he would have dared to do the same if it were a key recognised Muslim leader because his life would then be under serious threat.


Paul

 

[spreader_legger]

Not to defend the actions of certain RC priests .... but I'm sure if you were to investigate any group in isolation you would find some paedophiles there.

As for Dawkins .... why the f is he so famous? Like there weren't any other far more intelligent atheists one could quote from i.e. Satre etc. etc. Although Satre did in fact come to the conclusion that without a higher being or meaning, life was essentially a banality.

Hitler dispised Christianity ... in fact I believe that he followed some kind of ancient Norse faith.

Not necessarily - Dawkins' book The God Delusion has a whole chapter on Hitler and Stalin on the basis that its the most common criticism of atheism that he comes up against, ie the idea that the lack of a moral framework leads to monsters.

He makes two points, first that although Stalin was atheist its doubtful that Hitler was - he certainly had some belief system even if it wasn't 'pure' Christianity: in any case he thought he was accountable to some higher power.

His other argument is that while Stalin and Hitler were evil, what they did was not in the name of atheism but in a belief system (ie communism/Stalinism and fascism) that they were convinced was 'right' - much as previous religious leaders had done terrible things believing what they were doing was 'right' even if the means justifying the ends were messy. He points out that no wars have been fought in the name of atheism although as many as you like have been fought for religions.

Dawkins finishes with a nice quote from the Roman philosopher Seneca: 'religion is believed by common men to be true, by wise men to be false, and by rulers to be useful.'

Anyway, compared with what RC priests seem to have been up to, Goldman's sins appear almost saintly...

 

[Jack o'Clubs]

Although Satre did in fact come to the conclusion that without a higher being or meaning, life was essentially a banality.

Quite so. But just because that's an unpleasant thought, it doesn't mean it isn't true.

I agree (partly) on Dawkins - he seems to have become overbearingly strident and arrogant in his assertions, which is a shame because his earlier writings on science were very readable and convincing. Even The God Delusion is written persuasively - he seems to have lost the plot subsequently. Anyway, it can't do any harm to read as much as possible on both sides of the argument to form one's own opinions. For interest, I followed up Dawkins' God Delusion with Spinoza's Ethics...