so far the losse$'s dominate the win'$
I purchased the 'day trade to win' system and have been following the rules. the # of wins 'at the open' is greater than the # of losses at the open. however, the losses, getting stopped for approx 5 pnt losses ( and if it goes 4.5-5 points against, it goes 5-6 ) far outwieghs the $'s lost in this approach, in my experience so far. rk
I purchased the 'day trade to win' system and have been following the rules. the # of wins 'at the open' is greater than the # of losses at the open. however, the losses, getting stopped for approx 5 pnt losses ( and if it goes 4.5-5 points against, it goes 5-6 ) far outwieghs the $'s lost in this approach, in my experience so far. rk
Cheer Up, Be Positive in thinking & life.
You need more to help you on the market direction (trend). Sometimes you don't have to sit there and "take it, you co*k sucker" like Michaeal Douglas said in "Wall Street". The stops are not in stone. Don't sit there like a cow on a railroad track. You need to know how the market is moving before and when you enter. The market is like surfing (if you tried). The surf is constantly changing. Try looking at all support and resistence lines. Keep your eye on the Adv & Dec and know how the Bonds are moving.
Note: Bonds can be a trap too... sometimes they sell the bonds and also sell the e-mini using the buying pressure from seeing the bonds sell off, to get out. You will learn these and countless other mistakes by trading all the time. Limit you loss and learn learn learn, don't give up. Do this full time. Have someone support you during your training year(s). You can do it! You can't get a college degree so quickly, right...... This is big money were talking about if you can figure it out and get your own way of doing things then.........
Good Luck.
You need more to help you on the market direction (trend). Sometimes you don't have to sit there and "take it, you co*k sucker" like Michaeal Douglas said in "Wall Street". The stops are not in stone. Don't sit there like a cow on a railroad track. You need to know how the market is moving before and when you enter. The market is like surfing (if you tried). The surf is constantly changing. Try looking at all support and resistence lines. Keep your eye on the Adv & Dec and know how the Bonds are moving.
Note: Bonds can be a trap too... sometimes they sell the bonds and also sell the e-mini using the buying pressure from seeing the bonds sell off, to get out. You will learn these and countless other mistakes by trading all the time. Limit you loss and learn learn learn, don't give up. Do this full time. Have someone support you during your training year(s). You can do it! You can't get a college degree so quickly, right...... This is big money were talking about if you can figure it out and get your own way of doing things then.........
Good Luck.
rgsharp
Active member
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You should check out the (now closed) thread on this subject:
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/seminars-tutors/44804-daytradetowin.html
"Things are seldem what they seem / skim milk masquarades as cream"
Did You Take The Plunge
Did you purchase the system and if so how is it going? I have been trading sim and apprears very good.
Rick
Did you purchase the system and if so how is it going? I have been trading sim and apprears very good.
Rick
Zmark-trader
Junior member
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I have applied this method to bond futures and the Euro/FX with a
few modifications and the set up works quite nicely.
I was able to get 5 points on the bonds and 12 pips on the
euro without much effort.
The ES has gave back a little, but I love it…it shook out the small guys out…LOL
Today it did 4 points…awesome!
few modifications and the set up works quite nicely.
I was able to get 5 points on the bonds and 12 pips on the
euro without much effort.
The ES has gave back a little, but I love it…it shook out the small guys out…LOL
Today it did 4 points…awesome!
Be careful of this one guys they give no trial and want some $597 for a course.
The domain is hidden by Whois Shield so you cant even find out who the person is to get a refund.
Its probably some 15yo from Latvia.
Paying with Paypal contrary to popular belief limits your ability to force a refund.
And as we see from some posts they do not honor the refund like they say.
This would more than likely be a scam.
Although the system might work sometimes, (everything works sometimes) they do not honor the refund policy.
The domain is hidden by Whois Shield so you cant even find out who the person is to get a refund.
Its probably some 15yo from Latvia.
Paying with Paypal contrary to popular belief limits your ability to force a refund.
And as we see from some posts they do not honor the refund like they say.
This would more than likely be a scam.
Although the system might work sometimes, (everything works sometimes) they do not honor the refund policy.
Zmark-trader
Junior member
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I always say criticism is like looking in the Mirror. Dr. Jones!
I have spoken to John Paul on the phone, and he is real, knows trading, and his techie helped me a few times. The way they speak English, does not sound like thet are from Latvia.
If I had any web I would "hide" it too. This forum is also private registration, never the less, this did not prevent you from being here.
Did You check that? If you are such a hero, please post your real name and address. Get the point?
If this is not for you, move on, BUT please for the love of Jesus, try something before you make these accusations.
I guess guys like you ARE attracted to scams, buy it and then take it out on everyone else. Please spare us of your net "saviness". Be careful with what you say, there is fine line between opinion and slander...Bro.
I have spoken to John Paul on the phone, and he is real, knows trading, and his techie helped me a few times. The way they speak English, does not sound like thet are from Latvia.
If I had any web I would "hide" it too. This forum is also private registration, never the less, this did not prevent you from being here.
Did You check that? If you are such a hero, please post your real name and address. Get the point?
If this is not for you, move on, BUT please for the love of Jesus, try something before you make these accusations.
I guess guys like you ARE attracted to scams, buy it and then take it out on everyone else. Please spare us of your net "saviness". Be careful with what you say, there is fine line between opinion and slander...Bro.
STFU pathetic shill.
Obviously this idiot is involved with them.
Many reports all over the internet this is a scam and when people have lost money using it they get no reply from the scammer about the so called "Guarantee".
The scammer offers no trial, and advertises auto trading software but of course you cant get a trial of that, you have to buy the pathetic "course" and "Ebook" to get it.
Try something shill?How can you try something, WHEN THERE IS NO TRIAL!!
Any honest seller of anything gives trials FIRST.
Anyone else who asks for cash up front is a SCAMMER.
Obviously this idiot is involved with them.
Many reports all over the internet this is a scam and when people have lost money using it they get no reply from the scammer about the so called "Guarantee".
The scammer offers no trial, and advertises auto trading software but of course you cant get a trial of that, you have to buy the pathetic "course" and "Ebook" to get it.
Try something shill?How can you try something, WHEN THERE IS NO TRIAL!!
Any honest seller of anything gives trials FIRST.
Anyone else who asks for cash up front is a SCAMMER.
Work Together!!!!
Why don't those of use who bought the system work together and share some ideas to make this work better.
For example, I find the 5 point stop to much and thus have been testing other methods and also playing with the 3 bar 10 minute method which is much more conservative.
I will even start a Yahoo group if anyone is interested in improving their trading using this method.
If you do not own or use the product please do not contribute. I am looking for serious users of "Day Trade to Win" looking to improve performance.
FYI - I used the product last month and made $100 a day on one contract. I do not trade July.
Jack
Why don't those of use who bought the system work together and share some ideas to make this work better.
For example, I find the 5 point stop to much and thus have been testing other methods and also playing with the 3 bar 10 minute method which is much more conservative.
I will even start a Yahoo group if anyone is interested in improving their trading using this method.
If you do not own or use the product please do not contribute. I am looking for serious users of "Day Trade to Win" looking to improve performance.
FYI - I used the product last month and made $100 a day on one contract. I do not trade July.
Jack
Jack I like your idea. Did you find that his performance results on his site
matched what you saw as you traded last month?? I just have a hard time believing
he has those kind of results that often. I am new at this and currently looking at the
program now. I will keep in touch.
matched what you saw as you traded last month?? I just have a hard time believing
he has those kind of results that often. I am new at this and currently looking at the
program now. I will keep in touch.
There is more info about daytradetowin in a previous thread (now closed). Here is the link in case it may be of some help.
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/seminars-tutors/44804-daytradetowin.html
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/seminars-tutors/44804-daytradetowin.html
That is a great idea and i would support you. I do also offer free updates to all members. The financial s have always been hard to trade during the summer months. Historically the market has inconstant action during July and even August.
what are the chances that potential buyers can see some brokers statements or be given some independent verification of ACTUAL TRADE RESULTS using the system??,,,,,,,,,,,,,thanks in advance
ChiDayTrader
Newbie
- Messages
- 1
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- 1
I actually did buy this program, traded it since February, and tracked it since December.
First I'd like to say that I don't think this system is an intentional scam. I believe wholeheartedly that it does in fact work for John Paul. He has years of experience and has the ability to adjust and improve his system as he sees fit. I also believe that if you could be right about whether the trade was 2 or 2+4 each time, or if you could know when the market was going to turn around at -4, -5, -6, or never, that you would be profitable.
That being said, here is what I found:
Taking only some of the trades is not profitable. You need all the gains to make up for the average 20 point loss per contract, per month.
Going for only 2 points will get you around 10 points per contract most months. Other months (December, Feb, and July for example) would be losses.
Going for 2+4 points every time has a similar result. If you can't tell when to call a 4 point trade a 2 point trade, all the 2 point trades become washes.
Going for a mix of 2's and 2+4 is the only way to come closer to the performance results, but learning how to tell one from the other is no simple matter. And when you're wrong, 2 point trades will turn into washes when the 2nd contract stops out, and 2+4 point trades will turn into 2 point trades when you don't wait long enough to exit.
Setting smaller stops does not seem to help. For every 3 times it saves you 2 points, theres a trade that turns around into a winner, leaving you a 5-7 point gap. Now, if you could figure out *when* to be at a lower stop, and when to be higher, then you would be in much better shape...but that would be something you learned on your own.
Some trades that the performance history shows as profitable will not be filled. Perhaps you could increase your chances if you programmed ninjatrader to make the trades.
All trades that the performance history shows as losses will be filled.
You are not done trading at noon everyday. Not that that's important to me, but it is advertised as such. You are done trading at noon 3 or 4 days out of 5. One of those days will be a loss which will mean you need to trade until close, and another day could easily have a trade that triggers before noon and fills and targets well after. Sure, you could quit at noon anyway, but if you do you will not come close to the performance data.
The performance history includes trades on non-losing days that signalled after you were supposed to stop trading. If these trades were 30 minutes late, its not noted. If they were later than that, there is usually a note that says "if taken". However, the profit is included in the results, even though there is no way you would have known to take that afternoon trade while ignoring another.
As the disclaimer now says, per CFTC Rule 4.41 "Unlike an actual performance record, simulated results do not represent actual trading." "they are designed with the benefits of hindsight". This is very very true. If the system still listed the daily data, you could go back and look at each trade since June 08. I happen to have saved that data to a spreadsheet before it was taken down, and have used ninjatrader marketreplay to go through several months where I wasn't trading live.
When I bought the system, I figured that at the cost, it was a cheap lesson in the least (cheaper than grad school classes for sure). And actually, I still think that. Learning how some valid data points are calculated, plus the experience of trading price action, was valuable. However, one of the things that sold me on this system was all the data that was posted dating back to June 08. Now that it's gone, I doubt I would have trusted the system at all...If you do buy this system, I recommend starting a spreadsheet of your own to track the progress. Ignore the big number on the performance page and start tracking what you would really be doing. The data will tell you the story you need to know.
Cheers,
ChiDayTrader
First I'd like to say that I don't think this system is an intentional scam. I believe wholeheartedly that it does in fact work for John Paul. He has years of experience and has the ability to adjust and improve his system as he sees fit. I also believe that if you could be right about whether the trade was 2 or 2+4 each time, or if you could know when the market was going to turn around at -4, -5, -6, or never, that you would be profitable.
That being said, here is what I found:
Taking only some of the trades is not profitable. You need all the gains to make up for the average 20 point loss per contract, per month.
Going for only 2 points will get you around 10 points per contract most months. Other months (December, Feb, and July for example) would be losses.
Going for 2+4 points every time has a similar result. If you can't tell when to call a 4 point trade a 2 point trade, all the 2 point trades become washes.
Going for a mix of 2's and 2+4 is the only way to come closer to the performance results, but learning how to tell one from the other is no simple matter. And when you're wrong, 2 point trades will turn into washes when the 2nd contract stops out, and 2+4 point trades will turn into 2 point trades when you don't wait long enough to exit.
Setting smaller stops does not seem to help. For every 3 times it saves you 2 points, theres a trade that turns around into a winner, leaving you a 5-7 point gap. Now, if you could figure out *when* to be at a lower stop, and when to be higher, then you would be in much better shape...but that would be something you learned on your own.
Some trades that the performance history shows as profitable will not be filled. Perhaps you could increase your chances if you programmed ninjatrader to make the trades.
All trades that the performance history shows as losses will be filled.
You are not done trading at noon everyday. Not that that's important to me, but it is advertised as such. You are done trading at noon 3 or 4 days out of 5. One of those days will be a loss which will mean you need to trade until close, and another day could easily have a trade that triggers before noon and fills and targets well after. Sure, you could quit at noon anyway, but if you do you will not come close to the performance data.
The performance history includes trades on non-losing days that signalled after you were supposed to stop trading. If these trades were 30 minutes late, its not noted. If they were later than that, there is usually a note that says "if taken". However, the profit is included in the results, even though there is no way you would have known to take that afternoon trade while ignoring another.
As the disclaimer now says, per CFTC Rule 4.41 "Unlike an actual performance record, simulated results do not represent actual trading." "they are designed with the benefits of hindsight". This is very very true. If the system still listed the daily data, you could go back and look at each trade since June 08. I happen to have saved that data to a spreadsheet before it was taken down, and have used ninjatrader marketreplay to go through several months where I wasn't trading live.
When I bought the system, I figured that at the cost, it was a cheap lesson in the least (cheaper than grad school classes for sure). And actually, I still think that. Learning how some valid data points are calculated, plus the experience of trading price action, was valuable. However, one of the things that sold me on this system was all the data that was posted dating back to June 08. Now that it's gone, I doubt I would have trusted the system at all...If you do buy this system, I recommend starting a spreadsheet of your own to track the progress. Ignore the big number on the performance page and start tracking what you would really be doing. The data will tell you the story you need to know.
Cheers,
ChiDayTrader
rgsharp
Active member
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- 121
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- 1
Well put ChiDay, you covered all the points and concerns that have come up before on this forum, but are worth reiterating. The only conclusion that a sensible person can make is that it is not worth spending 1cent on this (so called) trading system.
Buyer beware.
Buyer beware.
question
what system do you use? I'm a newbie wanting to learn and it sounds like you know more than the rest. Hope to hear from you!
what system do you use? I'm a newbie wanting to learn and it sounds like you know more than the rest. Hope to hear from you!
rgsharp
Active member
- Messages
- 121
- Likes
- 1
:idea:
Do me a favour, have you read all the posts by OOPOLO ? This is a great forum for learning, but choose with care and then adopt your own trading style.
Regards
Richard.
Do me a favour, have you read all the posts by OOPOLO ? This is a great forum for learning, but choose with care and then adopt your own trading style.
Regards
Richard.
