All Failed Traders should become Vendors!!

[bbmac]

This discussion is such b0ll0cks, sorry.

To begin with, even the "BEST" trader in the world will go through a losing patch at some point (check out Buffett's drawdown in 2008!!), so who the f--- can "guarantee" that their students will start making money from day one?? It's impossible.

I don't disagree that there are many, many scam artists out there, but frankly, even the non-scam artists will be hard pushed to ensure their students are immediately and consistently profitable.

Given that most people's expectations when employing a coach or signal site will be unrealistically high, pretty much every vendor is a scammer as the results will disappoint, irrespective of their genuineness.

Good post...


There is very little if any upside to being a coach / mentor, if the student (s) become good traders - they have done it themselves and if they don't - it's your fault.

G/L

 

[wackypete2]

I suppose the question is: what is a scam vendor? Us lot would probably define this as someone who couldn't trade their way out of a paper bag but from a Trading Standards viewpoint, someone who coaches newbie traders just has to not make claims that they are a profitable trader or worked in a bank if they didn't, and simply teach authentic trading techniques (which would include established FA and TA knowledge) without guaranteeing success.

I agree with you. I personally don't care if the trainer can't trade, just don't make false claims. Besides training is not "if A then do B". A good trainer teaches prospects to look for potential profit opportunities or situations, or in other words learn how to think for yourself and find what you need. A good trainer teaches students how to become independent, rather than rely on someone.

Peter

 

[bbmac]

As we all know, you could give a bunch of traders the same system/emthodology/edge and they will all come out with different results. Even an entirely mechanical non discretionary one will see some follow the rules/some break them etc... The simple truth is that we should all develop our own trading edge from the bits that make sense to us even if they come from someone else's trading edge.

G/L

 

[SpiritBeing]

As we all know, you could give a bunch of traders the same system/emthodology/edge and they will all come out with different results. Even an entirely mechanical non discretionary one will see some follow the rules/some break them etc... The simple truth is that we should all develop our own trading edge from the bits that make sense to us even if they come from someone else's trading edge.

G/L

 

[meanreversion]

A friend of mine recently ponied up to go to a Van Tharp course in North Carolina. $4k for 3 days (ouch) but he came back looking as though he'd witnessed something religious. Now, Van Tharp is a psychologist by training, not a trader. The whole thrust of the course was about evaluating yourself and attempting to work out which trading system was the best fit.

I think this approach might have more merit than "here - trade these patterns".

 

[trendie]

I agree with you. I personally don't care if the trainer can't trade, just don't make false claims. Besides training is not "if A then do B". A good trainer teaches prospects to look for potential profit opportunities or situations, or in other words learn how to think for yourself and find what you need. A good trainer teaches students how to become independent, rather than rely on someone.

Peter

The sort of trainers people seek out reflect the mentality of the trainees.

Your above post reflects the sort of people who will, eventually, with effort, make it as traders, with realistic expectations and realistic returns.

However, the whingers and losers are the ones taken in by the "no learning necessary", "robot that installs in 5 minutes and makes profits immediately", "a 12 year old could do this" type of sales pitch.

If people are presented with 2 websites, one declaring that you need 6 months of hard work, and describing the gut-wrenching drawdowns, and another saying that you can learn all you need in a weekend course, the websites people go for tell us more about the people than the websites.

Whilst I am sympathetic to people being genuinely scammed, I can't help but feel that Darwinian selection is at work here.

 

[wackypete2]

A friend of mine recently ponied up to go to a Van Tharp course in North Carolina. $4k for 3 days (ouch) but he came back looking as though he'd witnessed something religious. Now, Van Tharp is a psychologist by training, not a trader. The whole thrust of the course was about evaluating yourself and attempting to work out which trading system was the best fit.

I think this approach might have more merit than "here - trade these patterns".

Exactly!

Peter

 

[meanreversion]

Why do you have a parrot t-shirt, is that sort of thing popular state-side?

 

[wackypete2]

Why do you have a parrot t-shirt, is that sort of thing popular state-side?

It's a real parrot. It's perched on my daughter's arm. The pic is cropped.

Peter

 

[meanreversion]

Ha! I wondered if it was real, but I found my eyes straining when I looked closer.

Was it a genuine parrot, or a scam parrot?

 

[wackypete2]

Ha! I wondered if it was real, but I found my eyes straining when I looked closer.

Was it a genuine parrot, or a scam parrot?

He's my new "edge". The parrot looks at my chart and says "BUY, BUY. BUY" or "SELL, SELL, SELL" in his best Cramer voice.

Peter

 

[meanreversion]

Well, I hope your equity curve soon hits a new beak.

 

[wackypete2]

It's a real parrot. It's perched on my daughter's arm. The pic is cropped.

Peter

Actually, when I had the pic taken I made sure to stand right next to a sign that said no photos please. My daughter still laughs at that and thinks I'm an idiot...well, she may be right :clap:

Now back to the topic!

Peter

 

[meanreversion]

How old is she, will you be teaching her how to trade? (Will that make you a vendor !! haha)

 

[wackypete2]

the pic was taken in April 2002, she was 9 then.
And I was uhhh, 21...yeah that's it, 21.

Peter

 

[trendie]

the pic was taken in April 2002, she was 9 then.
And I was uhhh, 21...yeah that's it, 21.

Peter

:-0

She was 9, and you were 21. You had her when you were 12?????????

 

[meanreversion]

It can happen.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2233878.ece

 

[redart]

im guessing You were 31

 

[trader30]

My 1.25p......

If a vendor makes false claims, he's not a vendor, he's a thief/seller of dreams.

Unfortunately this industry attracts dreamers which in turn attracts sellers of dreams.

Decent traders cant be bothered to trawl the internet looking for losers to spend hours to tell them how good they are to extract £99. Theyre better off trading and making small returns.

Its really only the marginal break-even traders who have the time and it's worthwhile to summarise what theyve read and show the newbie how not to blow up in week one.

I dont think its that hard to make small money tho. Spreads are so low now, and with sb you can keep all you make. I never made more than about £13k a year as a retail trader (doing it as a second job) and I live in London so this is pocket money. I know a handful of guys who might take £50k on a good year based on an account of similar size. They just skim off the profits. These guys are mostly retired or dont need to work so its more of a profitable hobby. I know of a few others who rode the up/down but we cant really class them as traders. More holders.

I'm not sure if its possible to make too much more unless you setup so many SB accounts you go under the radar with each one (£5pp etc). And that means multiple platforms open at one time which all crash eachother and as soon as you start making decent returns you just get stuck on manual fills which takes 2 pips each side or slips you 20% each time.

When I worked as a broker, I so rarely saw anyone using anything that could be remotely described as money management. So these people are destined to lose sooner rather than later.

Me: "Where do you want your stop loss?"
Loser: "Nah I'm not going to place a stop Ill just wait til its in profit to close it"
Me: (Silence)........"Ohhhhhh-kayyyyyyy"
Loser: "Bye. Im off to job centre/ladbrokes/PoundStretcher/Bed"

I suppose I have morals so I'll never sell dreams. Plus I cant be bothered to discuss the most basic principles with stupid people who through a mouthful of crisps ask "Soooo, how much monies can i make in my first year?"

(Sounds like Im speaking from experience, I'm not, just imaginative!)

PLAN for newbie (who agrees?):

1. Trade £1 a point on your £5k account until you turn it into £10k (This will probably take a year give or take). If you lose more then £100 in any one day, you arent allowed to trade for a month. If you blow up, you have to start again from the beginning and find another £5k.

2. If you get to £10k (maybe 10% of you will) go to £2pp until you get to £20k. Same rules apply.

3. If you've turned £5k into £20k in 2 years, you can call yourself a trader.

ps. if youre turn £5k into £20k in 2 weeks youre not a trader. You dont have a money management plan. go back to school/bed/crisps.

 

[wackypete2]

I meant I was 27??
Didn't matter. To her I was old. lol

Peter