Vendor Performance Thread

[new_trader]

There seems to be a lot of crap going on around this forum at the moment...a lot of crap. I would like to see some live trades posted by the system vendors instead of spurious "facts".

 

[trader_dante]

I'll offer to put the strategy that I have offered for free to the test against ANY vendor out there. If you are interested we can do a side by side performance for everyone to watch?

 

[new_trader]

Interesting idea n_t

A gladiatorial arena for vendors in the mighty citedal of T2W

bring it on admin

If vendors are attempting to make money from what they post here then they should be subjected to the most rigorous scrutiny. They can't go around from thread to thread trying to raise the profile of their claims by using terms like "probably"

Either you KNOW or you DON'T KNOW

 

[oilfxpro]

If vendors are attempting to make money from what they post here then they should be subjected to the most rigorous scrutiny. They can't go around from thread to thread trying to raise the profile of their claims by using terms like "probably"

Either you KNOW or you DON'T KNOW

Hi

I have run journals here for many months.I do not sell anything.I develop expert advisors for my own use

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/trading-journals/27207-oil-trading-oilfxpro-4.html

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/tra...ilfxpro-better-expert-advisor-euro-usd-3.html


OILFXPRO

 

[zupcon]

If vendors are attempting to make money from what they post here then they should be subjected to the most rigorous scrutiny. They can't go around from thread to thread trying to raise the profile of their claims by using terms like "probably"

Either you KNOW or you DON'T KNOW

Its not the vendors who are fault, or the moderators, or the site owners, they are all in agreement as to how things should operate. The problem is a small handful of people who despite all evidence to the contrary are under the illusion that this is a trading forum. Its not, its just a form of entertainment, available until such time the mods choose to ban you for interfering with their agenda.

This is a forum, loosely associated with "trading", it only needs one basic component to operate, or at least to be seen to operate to the satisfaction of advertisers. It needs people to constantly post stuff that kind of looks like it might be trading related, and the more of it, the better.

In many cases the only dialog going on in threads is between the vendor, and their various sock puppets, but at least it gives the impression to the most casual observer that the forum is "working", i.e a bunch of guys discussing trading related issues.

Any attempt to prevent the vendor posting, either by reasoned argument, or by fighting fire with fire, or by attempting to call them out with a challenge to back up their claims is actually damaging to the site. This sort of behavior frightens off other potential vendors, and the site needs its vendors to continue to maintain the illusion that the site is actually working.

Its not going to change, all you can do is extract the most entertainment value until such time they douse your light, cos inevitably, given the choice, its you they'll ban.

 

[wasp]

Its not the vendors who are fault, or the moderators, or the site owners, they are all in agreement as to how things should operate. The problem is a small handful of people who despite all evidence to the contrary are under the illusion that this is a trading forum. Its not, its just a form of entertainment, available until such time the mods choose to ban you for interfering with their agenda.

This is a forum, loosely associated with "trading", it only needs one basic component to operate, or at least to be seen to operate to the satisfaction of advertisers. It needs people to constantly post stuff that kind of looks like it might be trading related, and the more of it, the better.

In many cases the only dialog going on in threads is between the vendor, and their various sock puppets, but at least it gives the impression to the most casual observer that the forum is "working", i.e a bunch of guys discussing trading related issues.

Any attempt to prevent the vendor posting, either by reasoned argument, or by fighting fire with fire, or by attempting to call them out with a challenge to back up their claims is actually damaging to the site. This sort of behaviour frightens off other potential vendors, and the site needs its vendors to continue to maintain the illusion that the site is actually working.

Its not going to change, all you can do is extract the most entertainment value until such time they douse your light, cos inevitably, given the choice, its you they'll ban.

It takes 2 to tango and all it takes is the members who 'trade' to start threads in respect to trading and concentrate on those instead of paying attention to the vendors.

I have started a thread about price but where are all the traders who complain about the content? No where to be seen! Have I been banned for talking trading? No. Whether people think I talk crap or sense, at least the option is there.

The problem is people prefer to complain rather than act. Why not try starting threads on trading instead of worrying about the vendors. They have their threads and traders have their own. Unless people are willing to make the effort to talk trading, all thats going to be left is vendors.

(this is not a dig at any member in particular).

 

[firewalker99]

It takes 2 to tango and all it takes is the members who 'trade' to start threads in respect to trading and concentrate on those instead of paying attention to the vendors.

I have started a thread about price but where are all the traders who complain about the content? No where to be seen! Have I been banned for talking trading? No. Whether people think I talk crap or sense, at least the option is there.

The problem is people prefer to complain rather than act. Why not try starting threads on trading instead of worrying about the vendors. They have their threads and traders have their own. Unless people are willing to make the effort to talk trading, all thats going to be left is vendors.

(this is not a dig at any member in particular).

Given the recent 'vendor' talk, it seems that a whole number of people are becoming increasingly agitated by their presence. Despite that (afer I looked around) the number of vendors seems to grown, none of the threads or subforums that I like to 'follow' seem to exhibit this kind of behaviour. Or perhaps I'm just not looking hard enough.

What I'm trying to say, wasp is making a valid point here. I just ignore any vendors that cross my path! I post charts, I'm engaged in trading related discussions and I find myself talking with other members about all kinds of trading-related things. If you want to don't want vendors around, then just open your own thread. After all, that's what vendors do all the time.

Next to that, vendors are hardly the only people who have 'claimed' they have this or that system working. True, they are definitely more inclined to do so... but we must be careful not generalizing the problem. For example (and I'm just picking one thread), DWL has started his own journal-like thread with daily market analysis and it's actually pretty decent. (See http://www.trade2win.com/boards/us-indices/23458-us-market-commentary.html).

This shows that vendors aren't all bad... This doesn't change the fact that I'd hardly ever decide to give money to one of them, but this site obviously has some unavoidable commercial goals too...

 

[dbphoenix]

It takes 2 to tango and all it takes is the members who 'trade' to start threads in respect to trading and concentrate on those instead of paying attention to the vendors.

I have started a thread about price but where are all the traders who complain about the content? No where to be seen! Have I been banned for talking trading? No. Whether people think I talk crap or sense, at least the option is there.

The problem is people prefer to complain rather than act. Why not try starting threads on trading instead of worrying about the vendors. They have their threads and traders have their own. Unless people are willing to make the effort to talk trading, all thats going to be left is vendors.

While I applaud your efforts, wasp, your thread is not about trading, at least not the sort of trading that NT is talking about (assuming that I'm not misinterpreting what NT is saying). It is, as you say, about teaching newbies, etc, how to read a chart. I suspect that what NT is referring to, at least in a general sense, is the sort of trading that's going on in the better journals.

 

[wasp]

While I applaud your efforts, wasp, your thread is not about trading, at least not the sort of trading that NT is talking about (assuming that I'm not misinterpreting what NT is saying). It is, as you say, about teaching newbies, etc, how to read a chart. I suspect that what NT is referring to, at least in a general sense, is the sort of trading that's going on in the better journals.

Whilst the thread I have started may not appeal directly to what NT requires, there is nothing stopping him, or anyone else for that matter, starting a thread about just what interests them and they classify as relevant and important trading discussion.

 

[dbphoenix]

Whilst the thread I have started may not appeal directly to what NT requires, there is nothing stopping him starting a thread about just what interests him and he classifies as relevant and important trading discussion.

I agree, but that's not what he's suggesting.

 

[wasp]

I agree, but that's not what he's suggesting.

I appreciate that but mine and firewalkers point is it is possible to discuss trading and ignore the vendors like one watches the tele and ignores the adverts.

Its easy to judge and complain about the content but is it that much more difficult to ignore the vendors and start a thread about trading that interests you instead?

I actually agree with the thread idea and would like to see it but to complain about the sites content without contributing is hypocritical IMO.

 

[dbphoenix]

I appreciate that but mine and firewalkers point is it is possible to discuss trading and ignore the vendors like one watches the tele and ignores the adverts.

Its easy to judge and complain about the content but is it that much more difficult to ignore the vendors and start a thread about trading that interests you instead?

I actually agree with the thread idea and would like to see it but to complain about the sites content without contributing is hypocritical IMO.

Well, gee, wasp. If we haven't done enough, you be sure and let us know.

At least now I Know where the "advisors" are coming from, and it's much easier to understand why the site continues down this particular path.

 

[wasp]

Well, gee, wasp. If we haven't done enough, you be sure and let us know.

At least now I Know where the "advisors" are coming from, and it's much easier to understand why the site continues down this particular path.

Db, I for one am only trying to improve the contents of the board and I hope you realise that this 'vendor display of performance' is for those promoting huge returns rather than those like yourself who are extremely helpful and not trying to sell pipe dreams.

If my suggestion of members starting threads about trading is sending t2w down the wrong path, please feel free to suggest something else.......

 

[trader_dante]

Isn't it funny how when you call a vendor out they all hide?

 

[dbphoenix]

If my suggestion of members starting threads about trading is sending t2w down the wrong path, please feel free to suggest something else.......

That's not what I said. But it's not the topic of the thread, either. Unless NT meant to start yet another complaint thread. In which case, I'll pass since no one in The Tower is interested. Otherwise, I'm maintaining a blog which deals with real-time trading (see my blog here for a link).

In the meantime, maybe one of the vendors could demonstrate his knowledge of trading by adopting Spanish89.

 

[Mathemagician]

Isn't it funny how when you call a vendor out they all hide?

Or sleep.

I'll bite. What precisely would you like to see here?

jj

 

[firewalker99]

There seems to be a lot of crap going on around this forum at the moment...a lot of crap. I would like to see some live trades posted by the system vendors instead of spurious "facts".

I agree, but that's not what he's suggesting.

Perhaps new_trader could be more specific about what it is he'd like to see. Because as far as I know, only a handful of members have posted live trades in the past, vendor or no vendor.

 

[trader_dante]

Or sleep.

I'll bite. What precisely would you like to see here?

jj

I just think that if someone promises X amount per week/month/year as a result of their system or their teaching then they ought to prove it before charging. There are very few vendors that will put their **** on the line and say: "OK, I'll make a statistically significant number of live calls to prove I can make money" And why wouldn't they do this? They don't need to reveal anything about how their system works to do so and would, without a doubt, increase the number of sales. Plain and simple reason is that their systems don't work consistently.

 

[firewalker99]

Isn't it funny how when you call a vendor out they all hide?

I suspect vendors aren't exactly drawn to these threads, the same way I'm normally not drawn to threads where vendors post.

And also, this thread just started today...

 

[Mathemagician]

td, I agree with you completely with one exception. I'm pretty sure you overestimate the increase in sales due to posting calls/results.

Otherwise, I think you hit the nail square on the head, though. It's all about expectations not being met. Clients tend to have unrealistic expectations and there are certain unscrupulous people in all walks of life who feed into/off that. I would say that if anyone promised you X amount per week/month/year not only are they lying/ignorant in the first place (real results are too random to make such statements) but they're likely in violation of regulations. I know the CFTC specifically forbids this in the US.

Aside: Many vendors will tell you they are exempt from registration with the CFTC, but this is not true either. Those providing any form of trading advice to US persons involving futures including system vendors are required to register with the CFTC and with the NFA as a non-member CTA. What is the motivation for avoiding regulation anyway? The total cost is $100/year and if folks are making what they say it is laughable to try to use avoiding this cost as justification for anything.

That said, I acknowledge that I am in an industry with a pretty dodgy reputation, and that reputation is well-deserved. It's really been an uphill battle as a result. I would be very interested in helping to develop a sort of a "due diligence questionnaire" to help protect clients from unscrupulous vendors. I think this would accomplish the goal of this thread if done properly and would be an invaluable resource. What do you think?

jj