barjon
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jimbo
mmm, well all I can say as a volunteer moderator is that I have never, but never, been asked to show favouritism in any shape or form. If I have been too harsh or too soft that's been down to me and me alone. I can see you raising your eyebrows, but all I can do is state the fact.
It's also worth pointing out that many of the participants in the lively discussions of the past did have an underlying commercial interest which wasn't apparent unless you looked hard. Now, with the vendor tag, it is (and those participants would have one now) so I'm not sure it's right to say that the site has suddenly become populated by vendors.
good trading
jon
mmm, well all I can say as a volunteer moderator is that I have never, but never, been asked to show favouritism in any shape or form. If I have been too harsh or too soft that's been down to me and me alone. I can see you raising your eyebrows, but all I can do is state the fact.
It's also worth pointing out that many of the participants in the lively discussions of the past did have an underlying commercial interest which wasn't apparent unless you looked hard. Now, with the vendor tag, it is (and those participants would have one now) so I'm not sure it's right to say that the site has suddenly become populated by vendors.
good trading
jon
Sharky
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Jimbo57, thanks for your comments - you obviously care passionately about the site and wouldn't have posted this unless your perception was there was something wrong. You raise a few points which I'll try to address:
1) "favouritism leant to certain posters" - just not so, we very democratically established site guidelines with full consultation of the members. All the moderators do is apply those guidelines to the best of their abilities. To suggest there is some conscious favouring of particular members is simply not true and never has been. Unfortunately in disputes often there are two sides, and whichever course of action you take someone ends up unhappy. Decisions are usually discussed in our private forum, and opinions sought from all mods, who are some of the most level-headed people I know. They mods have no financial gain from the site and thereby are completely impartial in their decisions - which are made with the best interests of the site at heart.
2) "censorship in scam thread, world spreads thread "- I've not followed these threads, so will leave one it for one of the mods to respond.
3) "advertising" - if it wasn't for advertising we wouldn't have this site. Who would pay for the hosting, the resource required to expand the site and pay for me to spend my full-time doing this.
4) "vendors" - the visibility of vendors on the site is because that's what people wanted. Again we consulted with the membership and they wanted us to tag people who might have a commercial interest, they didn't want us to ban these people from posting, but to make it visible what they're motivations might be.
5) "connection between advertising and vendors on the forums" - there never has been one. The two are completely separate except for the sponsored forum which is cleared labelled as so.
6) "that isn't a level playing field." - im not sure you mean be a playing field, we're not all vying against each other - it's not a competition or a contest. The community element of the site are made up of forums that anyone can choose to post to and are more than welcome to participate as long as they don't break the site guidelines.
7) "And so not believe it is a community." - of course it's a community!
8) "the prophets are here because T2W likes the ad revenue, and the Trojan horses are here for the same reason." - such emotive talk is ridiculous, like there is some dark side to the whole thing when none exists. Why don't you come along to one of the exhibitions and meet us face to face and find out what nice people we really are!
We are constantly striving to improve the site, that's why we set up a focus group, that's why we do annual surveys, that's why we are working on a new version of the site to improve the whole experience. Of course we need funding from advertising because the site is free, and that's not about to change - so I'm afraid the ads will have to stay. The forums we set down the rules and do our very best to enforce them - we can't control what gets posted on the forums, we can only react to it. T2W is a community because it's the sum collective participation of all the members on it - how they choose to use it is up to them, we merely provide the framework and set the boundaries.
I'm sorry if you feel the site is not as good as it used to be. When we go around to all the exhibitions we speak to people who use the site, who may not post and they have nothing but praise for it. It's easy to have a tiny but vocal minority of people who see the bad in everything and make it appear there is a problem when none exists. If you can provide some concrete suggestions of how you would like to see the site progress then I would be most grateful to hear them, and more than likely to implement them if they are to the benefit to the site.
1) "favouritism leant to certain posters" - just not so, we very democratically established site guidelines with full consultation of the members. All the moderators do is apply those guidelines to the best of their abilities. To suggest there is some conscious favouring of particular members is simply not true and never has been. Unfortunately in disputes often there are two sides, and whichever course of action you take someone ends up unhappy. Decisions are usually discussed in our private forum, and opinions sought from all mods, who are some of the most level-headed people I know. They mods have no financial gain from the site and thereby are completely impartial in their decisions - which are made with the best interests of the site at heart.
2) "censorship in scam thread, world spreads thread "- I've not followed these threads, so will leave one it for one of the mods to respond.
3) "advertising" - if it wasn't for advertising we wouldn't have this site. Who would pay for the hosting, the resource required to expand the site and pay for me to spend my full-time doing this.
4) "vendors" - the visibility of vendors on the site is because that's what people wanted. Again we consulted with the membership and they wanted us to tag people who might have a commercial interest, they didn't want us to ban these people from posting, but to make it visible what they're motivations might be.
5) "connection between advertising and vendors on the forums" - there never has been one. The two are completely separate except for the sponsored forum which is cleared labelled as so.
6) "that isn't a level playing field." - im not sure you mean be a playing field, we're not all vying against each other - it's not a competition or a contest. The community element of the site are made up of forums that anyone can choose to post to and are more than welcome to participate as long as they don't break the site guidelines.
7) "And so not believe it is a community." - of course it's a community!
8) "the prophets are here because T2W likes the ad revenue, and the Trojan horses are here for the same reason." - such emotive talk is ridiculous, like there is some dark side to the whole thing when none exists. Why don't you come along to one of the exhibitions and meet us face to face and find out what nice people we really are!
We are constantly striving to improve the site, that's why we set up a focus group, that's why we do annual surveys, that's why we are working on a new version of the site to improve the whole experience. Of course we need funding from advertising because the site is free, and that's not about to change - so I'm afraid the ads will have to stay. The forums we set down the rules and do our very best to enforce them - we can't control what gets posted on the forums, we can only react to it. T2W is a community because it's the sum collective participation of all the members on it - how they choose to use it is up to them, we merely provide the framework and set the boundaries.
I'm sorry if you feel the site is not as good as it used to be. When we go around to all the exhibitions we speak to people who use the site, who may not post and they have nothing but praise for it. It's easy to have a tiny but vocal minority of people who see the bad in everything and make it appear there is a problem when none exists. If you can provide some concrete suggestions of how you would like to see the site progress then I would be most grateful to hear them, and more than likely to implement them if they are to the benefit to the site.
Sharky
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Jimbo, I'd hardly call closing the thread 'heavy handed censorship' and 'thoughtless and provocative' - it's all too much, really it is! Matt responds in full (though he shouldn't even have too) with what led up to the ban which CLEARLY breaches our site guidelines of not having multiple nicks. Shall we show favouritism and throw the rules out the window. I don't think so. You can't expect every decision by a mod to be endlessly debated - and its entirely right to close the thread once a response was given. Please have some perspective as to what is required in running a community. I just find it sad that people are more interested in stirring up trouble than anything else.
Sharky
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Sure, no problem answering your questions - as I've said there's nothing to hide!..
Advertising on the internet is done on a number of different ways, these are the most common:
CPM: Cost per thousand - so we sell 1000 banner impressions for £x
CPA: Cost per aquisition - so we get £x every time a referal completes a transaction or makes a purchase. For brokers this can mean either paying an initial introductory fee and nothing else, or paying a percentage of the commission on payments they make ie. trades that are made.
CPC: Cost per click - so we get £x every time someone clicks a banner
For more info read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_advertising
We do a mixture of the above. CPM mostly (and that's the lions share of income for the site), but CPC for the google ads, and occasionaly CPA on some of the partner mailings (both of which bring in far less revenue).
However forums are completely separate, we don't make any money off anybody posting anything in the forum - apart from allowing sponsors to post ocassionally in the T2W Sponsor Announcement forum or if one of the T2W team posts a store announcements, Traders Library promotion or something like the T2W Global Trader Competition. We only make money on banner ads, partner emails and advertising in the newsletter. Even the money we make from features like the survey and awards goes back into paying for the prizes and any costs like shipping incurred.
Vendors as designated on the forums have never and will never recieve any 'kickback', 'commission' or otherwise from us - from anything they've ever posted on there. Forums are 'clean' as you would say - that's the way it's always been. Never has there been any 'special relationship' with any poster - therefore there is no reason why any member on this site should be treated any differently to any other - and the mods have always had autonomy to simply apply the site guidelines, pure and simple.
Okay, next question...
Advertising on the internet is done on a number of different ways, these are the most common:
CPM: Cost per thousand - so we sell 1000 banner impressions for £x
CPA: Cost per aquisition - so we get £x every time a referal completes a transaction or makes a purchase. For brokers this can mean either paying an initial introductory fee and nothing else, or paying a percentage of the commission on payments they make ie. trades that are made.
CPC: Cost per click - so we get £x every time someone clicks a banner
For more info read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_advertising
We do a mixture of the above. CPM mostly (and that's the lions share of income for the site), but CPC for the google ads, and occasionaly CPA on some of the partner mailings (both of which bring in far less revenue).
However forums are completely separate, we don't make any money off anybody posting anything in the forum - apart from allowing sponsors to post ocassionally in the T2W Sponsor Announcement forum or if one of the T2W team posts a store announcements, Traders Library promotion or something like the T2W Global Trader Competition. We only make money on banner ads, partner emails and advertising in the newsletter. Even the money we make from features like the survey and awards goes back into paying for the prizes and any costs like shipping incurred.
Vendors as designated on the forums have never and will never recieve any 'kickback', 'commission' or otherwise from us - from anything they've ever posted on there. Forums are 'clean' as you would say - that's the way it's always been. Never has there been any 'special relationship' with any poster - therefore there is no reason why any member on this site should be treated any differently to any other - and the mods have always had autonomy to simply apply the site guidelines, pure and simple.
Okay, next question...
Sharky
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Jimbo, if I take the trouble to politely answer your question, please show me the same respect. I don't have to answer your questions and I don't appreciate the tone and insinuations of your replies. If you knew anything about how advertising works online then why ask the questions. We're not here for your amusement.
frugi
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I've merged the threads into this one to keep everything in the same place, as you suggest.
Now that Paul has kindly clarified this aspect of advertising which you seem to find so important, are you in turn going to clarify what you imagine these "implications" to be?
Now that Paul has kindly clarified this aspect of advertising which you seem to find so important, are you in turn going to clarify what you imagine these "implications" to be?
rossored
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jimbo57 said:
Sorry but I must jump in here as I look after 99% of the advertising on the site.
I don't know about the others, but the word 'kickbacks' is actually quite insulting to me. It sounds to me like you are suggesting that we are "duping" people (particularly newbies) into doing something that they don't want to do, which is about as far away from the idea of the site as humanly possible. Everyone here is an adult, and is responsbile for making their own decisions. We never have and never will make recommendations for or against a particular product or vendor, but it's hardly surprising that the site is a magnet for those people wanting to sell their products, is it?
Now think about this for a minute. Every magazine you pick up, every newspaper you buy, every TV programme you watch - all funded by advertising. So, are you the sort of person who complains to ITV if they show an advert for a car manufacturer that you've had a bad experience with? Or write to your daily paper and make a fuss if they run an advert for a shaving cream that's caused you a rash? No? So what exactly is all the fuss about here?
As Paul has said - quite politely (and I happen to agree with him where you were, by contrast, quite rude in reply) we are funded by advertising. It is no secret. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out - any website that has been around for any length of time has advertising on it - that's the way the "wicked world" works. It costs to run websites and yes, shock, horror, we actually make some money. If I'm not mistaken, that's actually what this website is all about - making money. As such I really fail to see what it is you're getting your knickers in a twist about. A far better use for your time, I would suggest, is actually getting on and doing some trading (assuming of course that you do actually trade).
Taking my admin hat off for a moment, the idea that you (and one or two 'friends' of yours) seem to have that we are involved in some kind of "conspiracy" is utterly laughable.
So, in the words of Forrest Gump, "that's all I have to say about that".
