Lord Flasheart
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yep,
yep,
This followers page have been discussed some time ago if i recall correctly , it is evident that there is something wrong there as the numbers of users are too small ,it may have to do with the fact that many followers do not know that they can make their public page visible to others (or they just dont want to) , me for example i found this option by chance (you have to click on your pic in your account options) , and i dont use it. I dont want my profile to be public.
dude, sorry but you are really picking up on stuff that is not there.
Obviously ROI of followers and ROI of providers cannot be the same, like ever, due to fact that it is the initial equity is not the same, duh i start like with 500-1500 USD and then we have the trader having virtual or who knows how many K account...I am just going to say one thing - 488B in live account transaction - its on the website.......not bad ee for 'loosing people" :clover::clover:
I really hope that you are not saying that zulutrade has $488 BILLION under management.
If you are, then you are now in the category of INSANE FANTASY
The other problem that they should fix is the serious overstating of the Amount Following statistic on the left hand side panel.
When you look at a Signal Providers number for Amount Following it will say , for example $3,000,000 However, that is the Total amount deposited of every follower (which in most cases is allocated over a number of traders).
For example, if a follower has a total of $50,000 deposited and follows 5 Signal Providers, then each and every one of those SP is credited with $50,000.
So there is a gross overstatement of the Amount Following all the traders.
The numbers are, again, a fantasy to make the zulutrade site bigger than it is.
When you look at a Signal Providers number for Amount Following it will say , for example $3,000,000 However, that is the Total amount deposited of every follower (which in most cases is allocated over a number of traders).
For example, if a follower has a total of $50,000 deposited and follows 5 Signal Providers, then each and every one of those SP is credited with $50,000.
So there is a gross overstatement of the Amount Following all the traders.
The numbers are, again, a fantasy to make the zulutrade site bigger than it is.
Lord Flasheart
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im assuming that that is the leveraged figure so $48m,would that sound about right?
Also you say that if I am a provider and have a figure of $50,000 of following and the same guys follows someone else,that we will both have a following of that amount. Do you know that for fact?
it means exactly what it says......'live accounts transactions' not management, but live accounts transactions. and to avoid you nexrt suspicious comment, fake numbers cant exist on the webpage- they are NFA registered - and those regulators do not play around, will catch you if you provide fake numbers.
what you are saying doesnt really make sense....the total amount following has to do the lots allocated to the corresponding provider, not the whole follower's amoun..duhhh!! you are really underestimating the number of the followers and their accounts volume thats why you doing such a simple math
and again, do not underestimate the US regulators
Lord Flasheart
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what you are saying doesnt really make sense....the total amount following has to do the lots allocated to the corresponding provider, not the whole follower's amoun..duhhh!! you are really underestimating the number of the followers and their accounts volume thats why you doing such a simple math
Robert if I have a guy following me and it shows say 100,000,is that the money in the account I trade off,or the amount in his account. What the pom is saying is correct.I could have $1m in my accouint but only allocate a trader to use micro lots,so it would be a fals figure.
Lord Flasheart
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meanwhile my demo acocunt for this month has lost shed loads,so next month there are only 5 survivors who have traded responsibly.signal player, profit impulse,azar consulting,green fx and ill stick with jason for a while
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VielGeld
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I decided to take a look at this copy trade stuff, starting with Zulu.
I'd noticed the issue with the fudged numbers. That doesn't inspire confidence. If Zulu were on the ball about their integrity, this would have been fixed asap.
I'm not sure there is a single genuine trader on there. By applying filters to get great stats you get guys like this where they average down to turn out a profit. His stats are great, but you'll see the average trade makes 2-5pips with a ~20pip drawdown.
Eh, I'd be curious to know if there is anyone genuinely good on there, but I think I'll stick to my trading. At least I know my losses will be my own!
I'd noticed the issue with the fudged numbers. That doesn't inspire confidence. If Zulu were on the ball about their integrity, this would have been fixed asap.
I'm not sure there is a single genuine trader on there. By applying filters to get great stats you get guys like this where they average down to turn out a profit. His stats are great, but you'll see the average trade makes 2-5pips with a ~20pip drawdown.
Eh, I'd be curious to know if there is anyone genuinely good on there, but I think I'll stick to my trading. At least I know my losses will be my own!
Lord Flasheart
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ive never noticed that trader before.Very interesting spot,but not a good example of zulus figures. To me if the stats are correct hes doing very well with a very low relative drawdown. I guess he can take 188 trades at the same time because its a live account.but with a 2 pip spread,thats 376 pips adrift before he starts. i would welcome the other regular posters on this thread to look and analyse him.by my reckoning he should be a lot higher
wackypete2
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Stats like that shows he's running a grid ea. Max open trades @ 188 and avg pips per trade is 2. It's automated. He can't trade that way manually. Difficult to believe the max drawdown is only 14% when the largest losing trade is 145 pips. Most likely there were several more losing trades like that all in sequence but drawdown is shown as a MONTHLY stat. This is deceiving. A daily drawdown could be much much worse but on a per month basis when other days are profitable it creates a smoothed number.
Look at May '12. It's the only month showing a negative ROI, yet that same month has the best (or very near) win/loss ratio.
Peter
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Lord Flasheart
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yep,there has to be a dd of more than quoted. Zulu dont use a top to bottom dd,they use a per trade dd. so if you had 10 losing trades of 100 pips,your dd would only be 100 pips
it means exactly what it says......'live accounts transactions' not management, but live accounts transactions. and to avoid you nexrt suspicious comment, fake numbers cant exist on the webpage- they are NFA registered - and those regulators do not play around, will catch you if you provide fake numbers.
It has already been shown that the Followers (copy Traders) information regarding ROI is grossly false and deceiving.
It has already been shown that the Followers (copy Traders) information regarding Amount Following statistic on the left hand side panel is grossly false and deceiving.
And I have been doing some analyses of the ROI of the top ten Traders. There is NO possibility of them achieving their stated ROI on the numbers shown. I will show those analyses tomorrow.
And. your statement in regards to the vigilance of the regulators in Greece gave me a big laugh. The regulators in the USA are supposedly the toughest in the world, but the names like Bernie Madoff, Libor, and all the other massive financial scams and frauds easily come to mind.
Lord Flasheart
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I look forward to your analysis. From what I understand the ROI is calculated on leverage of 100/1,so I think it is correct but obviously the top ones will always have a good roi,even if its for a short period before they bust. but the roi clearly is not a good figure to go on. A roi means nothing if the dd is over 100%. I understand why you say what you do about the financial scams etc,but surely the capitol is protected up to 30000,i dont think Bernie had that sort of guarantee.
It is 5.00am GMT and the number one trader in Zulutrade is Kama-Spot.
He has a published ROI of 1154%. (Shown in left hand side box next to chart on Zulutrade)
He has a published net Profit of $4307.70 (found by moving your cursor to the end of his profit curve).
If we use the ROI formula that
ROI = Net Profit /invested capital * 100
then ROI = 1154
Net Profit = 4307.7
and Invested Capital is therefore $373
BUT IF WE LOOK AT HIS FIRST MONTHS TRADING , we find that on 10th OCT 2012, he had a drawdown of $495.90.
In other words, his account was busted. (And I am being generous, because he would have been margin-called well before he was busted).
The issue that I am trying to point out here is that I believe that Zulutrader is being very loose with its numbers.
a) The Traders numbers do not reflect real trading conditions. NO broker extends credit to a client that has breached margin requirements.
And NO broker allows a client to continue trading when their Invested Capital is blown out.
b) The Followers (copy Traders) information regarding ROI appears grossly false and deceiving.
c) The Followers (copy Traders) information regarding Amount Following statistic on the left hand side panel appears grossly false and deceiving.
d) Also of interest is the comparison of slippage. For example, for the same trader (Kama-Spot and Saved FX), the slippage on Dukascopy on the accounts is 0.9 on Kama-Spot and a whopping 3.6 on Saved FX. Why is there such a HUGE discrepancy by the same trader on the same broker on the two different accounts?
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Lord Flasheart
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I agree with where you are coming from but that is not a good example to use. His drawdown would have calculated on 5 times that amount as he has a maximum of 5 open positions. He is a top performer so far on his stats that you can see but like many before his winners are smaller than his losers so may blow up at somepoint. i hope not,many people have a lot of cash behind him. Last year Fcc had 35m behind him before he blew
Excuse me pom but arent you a bit off in your calculations there? You calculate the ROI where you put the Net profit in PIPS and you find the invested capital in $??? I dont think you can calculate that in zulu , you dont have the right info for that to see what amount was invested by a provider at the start . So the points you make in a) and b) are wrong. Can you elaborate a bit more about the point in c)? For the last point (d) i guess this is happening because his 2 accounts are using different brokers.
