Why the obsession ?

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Paulie_5

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What is this obsession with wanting to know other people's PnL ??

I just don't get it and as soon as I see or hear somebody asking the question, it really annoys me.

You wouldn't pay for your shopping in Sainsburys then turn round to the cashier and say "oh by the way, how much do you get paid an hour'? so why oh WHY do people think it's acceptable to ask the question on a public forum to a total stranger ?

Trading is a job, just like any other job. Some people are better than others. Some are exceptional in their field. Some never really make it. It follows that it should be a taboo to ask their income just like any other occupation.

It could be argued that the question "how much can ONE earn as a trader" is acceptable in the same way that you'd be curious to find out average salaries of a solicitor if you wanted to practise law. But I think 99% of people realise that a trader's salary could be worked out from the oft quoted statistic of "90% fail" up to the well-known billions of George Soros, Warren Buffet etc

I started off in trading a couple of years ago doing an apprenticeship and at the end of the day you'd hear the new intake constantly asking each other "how many ticks did you make today ?", "How many lots are you trading?", "What's your P+L this month" etc etc ... I even remember one guy getting annoyed because his mate wouldn't answer the question !!

I want to ask the question to anyone who has ever asked this question ...

Why do you ask ? What do YOU personally get out of it by asking ? Do you think it's acceptable to ask?

I'm hoping this post will make people stop and think before asking and also make them realise that some people (myself especially) find it really very rude.

As far as I'm concerned, the only person who should be interested in my Pnl is the taxman.


Paulie
 
The issue is that there are a lot of folks out there who teach trading and don't make any money trading. Also, I think it sheds credibility on advice someone may be giving if they are indeed successful at what they are telling others they should be doing.

That said, I agree it's entirely up to the person being asked if they want to respond or not. Not answering the question doesn't mean they are any less successful. It may mean they are just more private.
 
IMO the only genuine reason can be to seek out inspiration... a few years back (5hit just realised its 15+) I interviewed a lad for a sales position, what he asked really stuck with me and he'd never been involved in sales before, he was very direct and refreshing with no usual sales performance hangups and hopefully went on from strength to strength..."What did your top earner pull down last year? He's not superman is he, it's not rocket sicence is it, if you show me how he does it I reckon I'll pull it off too...can I have the job?"...
 
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Black Swan said:
IMO the only genuine reason can be to seek out inspiration... a few years back (5hit just realised its 15+) I interviewed a lad for a sales position, what he asked really stuck with me and he'd never been involved in sales before, he was very direct and refreshing with no usual sales performance hangups and hopefully went on from strength to strength..."What did your top earner pull down last year? He's not superman is he, it's not rocket sicence is it, if you show me how he does it I reckon I'll pull it off too...can I have the job?"...
Click to expand...

I can see that need for inspiration. And it makes sense in the scenario you have given. The guy you talk about was curious to know his earning potential within an organisation. He didn't ask directly - "how much do you earn?". He asked what the "top earner" was making. There's a difference.

If somebody came on this forum and said "how much does a top trader earn?" - then it's simple. Millions. Billions. Even if they came to an interview at a prop firm and asked "how much do the top traders earn here" - a similar answer can be given. Hundreds of thousands of pounds.

That's great. Give them something to shoot for. Give them inspiration.


My gripe was with those who ask directly "how many pips have you made exactly this month?" "How many ticks do YOU make". To me it's no different to asking a stranger their salary.

All IMHO.
 
I think it's a perfectly valid question to all those people that imply they can teach you how improve your trading. There are quite a few around that seem to believe they can do this just by posting on this board. As they are holding themselves up as some sort of guru or faux mentor - i think some evidence of their talent is a justified request. That talent would obviously result in a rather impressive PnL.

If people aren't putting themselves forward in that way then I agree - entirely innapropriate.
 
I agree with episteme.

Not only does it prove the claims that people make, it proves they are actually trading in the first place.

I would say the majority on here do not trade at all.
 
Black Swan said:
IMO the only genuine reason can be to seek out inspiration... a few years back (5hit just realised its 15+) I interviewed a lad for a sales position, what he asked really stuck with me and he'd never been involved in sales before, he was very direct and refreshing with no usual sales performance hangups and hopefully went on from strength to strength..."What did your top earner pull down last year? He's not superman is he, it's not rocket sicence is it, if you show me how he does it I reckon I'll pull it off too...can I have the job?"...
Click to expand...

So did he get the job?
 
DionysusToast said:
I agree with episteme.

Not only does it prove the claims that people make, it proves they are actually trading in the first place.

I would say the majority on here do not trade at all.
Click to expand...

I agree with the OP.
You can tell who does and who doesn't. There's only a very few who are questionable.
You can also pretty much figure out who's experienced enough to know how this game goes, and who hasn't yet paid their dues.
Posting the PnL doesn't help, since any number can be made up, and so-called screenshots can be altered very easily.
There's no George Soros or Jimmy Rogers here, but there are a few very good people, from what I can figure out.
 
counter_violent said:
So did he get the job?
Click to expand...

Yes, in his first few days he put a lot of us to shame and I'm glad I was managing him. We were selling office equipment into the City, first task I used to give the new guys was to wear out shoe leather collecting compliment slips with the decision makers name on from all the offices in a chosen district, such as EC2. I'd tell them that if they got it right the useless shoes they were wearing could be replaced by a pair of Loakes that I'd buy the first time they hit target off the data they collected, by the time they could afford Churches thet should be self sufficient...

Anyhow, the exercise got them to familiarise themselves with their territory, meet prospective clients...just a good place to start for a variety of reasons...I had sackfulls of these comp slips already, and had seen the same old ones for years. Generally guys would bring back a few a day then I'd encourage them to get on the phone and make appointments with the key decision makers...This guy brought back iirc 150 slips in his first 2 days, not only that he'd talked a couple of prospects into appointments. His closing technique on the phone was v. raw, but it then gave me the opportunity to phone the prospect back up and try to re-appoint on the basis that he was new, perhaps didn't explain things correctly etc...

The guy completely changed his life around, early 20's he'd never taken home wages of a couple of grand plus a month...in fact therafter, wherever I was, whenever I interviewed guys for sales postions, I'd look for the x-factor this kid had...

Goota go buddy, UJ looking like it wants me to short it, just gone long cable...I need to talk to you, pick your brains will pm you over the weekend if that's OK?
 
episteme said:
I think it's a perfectly valid question to all those people that imply they can teach you how improve your trading. There are quite a few around that seem to believe they can do this just by posting on this board. As they are holding themselves up as some sort of guru or faux mentor - i think some evidence of their talent is a justified request. That talent would obviously result in a rather impressive PnL.

If people aren't putting themselves forward in that way then I agree - entirely innapropriate.
Click to expand...

Once having obtained that information can you believe it? Personally, I think that it is a question that has no point in the asking.
 
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I think it is reasonable question to ask if the person is advertising their services to teach, without knowing their success rates who is to say whether they are a competent teacher, there again, most people just lie anyway.

Maybe there are competent teachers who are not profitable ? :p

As for asking a total stranger on a Forum who I was just reading or whatever, no, that´s ludicrous and when people do it to me I just ignore them, just like when they insist I give them my strategy to prove a completely unrelated answer I may have given ... LOL. If I started the thread wanting to expand on the particualar subject of my p&l or my strategy, then I might share, but that´s about it (ps. thats not likely to happen, but doubtful anyone would wanna see it anyway as I am not asking or indicating that anyone should be impressed, and I don´t have 50k+ posts - yet).

:whistling



Paulie_5 said:
What is this obsession with wanting to know other people's PnL ??

I just don't get it and as soon as I see or hear somebody asking the question, it really annoys me.

You wouldn't pay for your shopping in Sainsburys then turn round to the cashier and say "oh by the way, how much do you get paid an hour'? so why oh WHY do people think it's acceptable to ask the question on a public forum to a total stranger ?

Trading is a job, just like any other job. Some people are better than others. Some are exceptional in their field. Some never really make it. It follows that it should be a taboo to ask their income just like any other occupation.

It could be argued that the question "how much can ONE earn as a trader" is acceptable in the same way that you'd be curious to find out average salaries of a solicitor if you wanted to practise law. But I think 99% of people realise that a trader's salary could be worked out from the oft quoted statistic of "90% fail" up to the well-known billions of George Soros, Warren Buffet etc

I started off in trading a couple of years ago doing an apprenticeship and at the end of the day you'd hear the new intake constantly asking each other "how many ticks did you make today ?", "How many lots are you trading?", "What's your P+L this month" etc etc ... I even remember one guy getting annoyed because his mate wouldn't answer the question !!

I want to ask the question to anyone who has ever asked this question ...

Why do you ask ? What do YOU personally get out of it by asking ? Do you think it's acceptable to ask?

I'm hoping this post will make people stop and think before asking and also make them realise that some people (myself especially) find it really very rude.

As far as I'm concerned, the only person who should be interested in my Pnl is the taxman.


Paulie
Click to expand...
 
Kin knob heads posting here who think faked returns make a snakeoil merchant legit.
Nothing changes.:)
 

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DionysusToast said:
I agree with episteme.

Not only does it prove the claims that people make, it proves they are actually trading in the first place.

I would say the majority on here do not trade at all.
Click to expand...

The thing is trading means many different things to different people.
Some seem to genuinely be trading hundreds of thou or whatever, and others (me) are still at £1/pip, although growing, slowly. Is this trading? Some say no, but you have to start somewhere, right?

I had extreme doubts about posting in TD's thread but for some reason decided to.
Still have doubts. Another thing is, some people don't even accept that spread betting (which is all I've ever done, and all I ever plan to do in the short term) is trading.

So, what's it all about, Alfie....?
 
p.s. my returns, for what they are worth, are not faked. I wouldn't know how, and couldn't be bothered. I'd rather trade, than fake it. Even if I lost.
 
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