why retail FX traders loose

[ChocolateDigestive]

$1.490 trillion in spot transactions
$475 billion in outright forwards
$1.765 trillion in foreign exchange swaps
$43 billion currency swaps
$207 billion in options and other products
200000 billion in speculative bank trading. They are so good they don't need the other sh! T

keep digging mate rofl.

My sides are still aching from your post saying that top tier players do not go after the smaller players.

 

[The Leopard]

sorry to disappoint you Leopardo I am no white goods vendor scum.

Dammit! I was counting on you.

I need some advice on this - now what am I going to do? Is it worth paying the extra for a top brand? Or should I just get an LG for half the price?

MIELE W3228 Washing Machine buy online | Currys

 

[dazzer_fx]

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha that is one of the funniest things I have ever heard on T2W. ironically this thread is actually demonstrating why most retail traders lose.

it's all good dude.

I have to agree, couldn't have got it more wrong, this is exactly what they do!

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

Is it worth paying the extra for a top brand?

are you frikkin serious. buy cheap buy twice.

it's not often I do this but I am going to let you into a little secret, there is a great little forum out there for white goods, check it:

UK Whitegoods • Domestic Appliance Forum

I suggest you post there and try and get answers to your white goods questions, in fact there could be endless opportunities to troll people.

PS - by the way I am still chuckling to myself about you post the other day when you said that cast iron is mere jelly compared to your discipline. that tickled me.

 

[The Leopard]

are you frikkin serious. buy cheap buy twice.

it's not often I do this but I am going to let you into a little secret, there is a great little forum out there for white goods, check it:

UK Whitegoods • Domestic Appliance Forum

I suggest you post there and try and get answers to your white goods questions, in fact there could be endless opportunities to troll people.

PS - by the way I am still chuckling to myself about you post the other day when you said that cast iron is mere jelly compared to your discipline. that tickled me.

WTF? There's a home appliances forum? Why did nobody tell me?

You are too kind. I've been reading (well, re-reading) a lot of Wodehouse recently, which probably accounts for any well-turned phrases of late.

Actually, on a serious point, that kind of stuff is ideal for my approach. It's fun and entertaining, you can dip in and out at a moment's notice, and they're classics, so you don't feel like you're wasting your time .

Keeps me out of trouble, but not too absorbed. Perfect .

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

WTF? There's a home appliances forum? Why did nobody tell me?

You are too kind. I've been reading (well, re-reading) a lot of Wodehouse recently, which probably accounts for any well-turned phrases of late.

Actually, on a serious point, that kind of stuff is ideal for my approach. It's fun and entertaining, you can dip in and out at a moment's notice, and they're classics, so you don't feel like you're wasting your time .

Keeps me out of trouble, but not too absorbed. Perfect .

just think of all the vendor scum on the white goods forum, I bet there are like loads of fridge salesman on there trying to solicit members into buying their products. not that they would know anything about how to select a fridge, they are just selling their product. besides 95% of all new fridges fail, basically because they are 7hit at keeping things cold. 7ucking fridge salesman they probably have a beginner Joe over there to who asks the fridge salesman for proof that their fridges keep things cold FFS, I want a statement showing that this fridge actually cools things down.

 

[The Leopard]

just think of all the vendor scum on the white goods forum, I bet there are like loads of fridge salesman on there trying to solicit members into buying their products. not that they would know anything about how to select a fridge, they are just selling their product. besides 95% of all new fridges fail, basically because they are 7hit at keeping things cold. 7ucking fridge salesman they probably have a beginner Joe over there to who asks the fridge salesman for proof that their fridges keep things cold FFS, I want a statement showing that this fridge actually cools things down.

One forum is enough for me. Tarde2Loose is all I need.

 

[rsh01]

Over time on average they do not lose on their spot FX transactions.

please provide evidence supporting this statement

Edit: basically if you knew how investment banks (major participants in fx spot) consolidated pnl (internally - for management; externally - for regulatory/markets) you would not have made the above statement. And how they consolidate represents how they structure their business, this includes the use of fx spot and every other financial instrument on their books.

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

please provide evidence supporting this statement

Edit: basically if you knew how investment banks (major participants in fx spot) consolidated pnl (internally - for management; externally - for regulatory/markets) you would not have made the above statement. And how they consolidate represents how they structure their business, this includes the use of fx spot and every other financial instrument on their books.

oh god please help me. you want me to provide evidence that top tier FX participants over time make money on their spot FX transactions. Are you retarded? If we are talking about IB's they have a desk for customer orders and a separate prop desk for trading the bank money/credit.

So they have all the information gathered from the flow of customer orders to trade with at their prop desk and you want me to show you evidence that on average over time they make money from their spot FX trading.

What exactly are you arguing that spot FX isnt a zero sum game? That more retail traders win than lose?

all this on a thread about why retail traders lose at FX.

I give up.

 

[rsh01]

oh god please help me. you want me to provide evidence that top tier FX participants over time make money on their spot FX transactions. Are you retarded? If we are talking about IB's they have a desk for customer orders and a separate prop desk for trading the bank money/credit.

So they have all the information gathered from the flow of customer orders to trade with at their prop desk and you want me to show you evidence that on average over time they make money from their spot FX trading.

What exactly are you arguing that spot FX isnt a zero sum game? That more retail traders win than lose?

all this on a thread about why retail traders lose at FX.

I give up.

Why exactly are you being so rude?

You keep talking just about prop, that's where you fail miserably. A banks Fx spot trades is not just prop (speculation), its about a million other parts of the banks business also. So they are not entering to speculate, they are trading spot to deliver on their contractual obligation to provide myriad of cashflows to clients.

I asked you a rhetorical question btw. You would not be able to provide me with the pnl for the 'whole' bank trading spot fx. You know why? Cos the bank would not have that information either. That's not how pnl is recorded. To one area of the bank its a one off transaction - say paying libor on an equity swap to be transferred into the clients ccy of choice, this doesn't represent a buy and a sell in the spot market...it would be one sided. They do the one transaction, get it? And they will repeat that transaction say every 3mths (whatever the terms of the contract is).

The prop desk will be able to provide you with that information, but to reiterate for the nth time, that's only a part of the picture. You seem to not be able to comprehend even this basic concept, yet you start threads on the subject. Good one.

 

[Martinghoul]

rsh is right, obviously. CD, regardless of the validity of your original point, you're barking up completely the wrong tree. Generally speaking, you should avoid talking about things you clearly have very little direct experience with, such as how spot FX dealers at banks operate, their relationship to prop desks, etc.

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

Why exactly are you being so rude?

You keep talking just about prop, that's where you fail miserably. A banks Fx spot trades is not just prop (speculation), its about a million other parts of the banks business also. So they are not entering to speculate, they are trading spot to deliver on their contractual obligation to provide myriad of cashflows to clients.

no I don't just keep talking about prop that is in your head. All i have stated is that spot FX is a zero sum game. I know banks trade customer flows and also have prop desks I don't know why you are telling me what I already know. Yes they are trading spot to deliver whatever the flow dictates so what.

Remember this whole ding dong started as you jumped on me because I said on average over time top tier players make money on their spot FX.

Are you saying you disagree with this?

The prop desk will be able to provide you with that information, but to reiterate for the nth time, that's only a part of the picture. You seem to not be able to comprehend even this basic concept, yet you start threads on the subject. Good one.

I really think you have lost a handle on your logic here. I understand perfectly well that there is flow desk plus prop desk and you cannot just offset the positions. As for starting a thread on the subject I really dont know wtf you are talking about, the title of the thread is 'why retail FX traders loose' not 'an essay on how banks flow and prop desks are accounted'. Again lack of clear thinking sir.

look it doesn't matter. I used a zero sum argument up and you chose to shoot it down by saying hold on banks make money in other ways so the zero sum argument might not hold up, but where are you going with that precisely nowhere. all that matters is that the larger better informed players win more than the smaller retail traders, that's all I meant. nice derail of thread.

essentially you threw in a can of worms that doesn't matter anyway just to prove a point score, overly complicated the thread.

Why dont you start you own thread 'an essay on the inner relationship between a banks flow and prop desks and why this negates an argument that retail traders lose more often than not as it's a zero sum game'.

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

rsh is right, obviously. CD, regardless of the validity of your original point, you're barking up completely the wrong tree. Generally speaking, you should avoid talking about things you clearly have very little direct experience with, such as how spot FX dealers at banks operate, their relationship to prop desks, etc.

RSH is right about what exactly, that spot FX is not a zero sum game? that on average over time top tier players dont make money on their spot FX transactions? that you cant use a zero sum game argument as in some cases banks may take a loss on some spot FX transactions and generate revenue elsewhere?

As for your condescending post about avoiding talking about things I have no direct experience of, well I guess I am no match for you big brain huh? No I dont have any experience of being a spot FX dealer at a bank and their relationship to prop desks.

Actually you advice to me to avoid talking about things I have no direct experience of says more about you than me. You see I know what I need to know. I DO NOT need to know how IB's account between their flow/prop desks to trade profitably. All I need to know is that they are there, how they are likely to operate. Your advice to me is typical of an over analysis approach like you need to cover all bases you must be an expert in absolutely everything to succeed, again another reason why a lot of traders fail. The inability to zero in on what matters and what doesn't matter. It is telling that the issues RSH and you have raised have no bearing on whether a retail trader is profitable.

Analysis, more analysis, more analysis, too much. Unless you zero in on what matters and focus on that you can be a walking investopedia or knowledge but you cant trade for toffee (and I dont mean YOU cant trade, I dont know you)

all I know is that when I am in the market as a small trader there are larger traders out there who can and do move the market and more often than not these larger players make more money than the smaller retail players. that's all i need to know to zero in on what matters before further analysis.

since you gave me a little guidance I will give you some.

Why don't you make a positive contribution to the forum? All you seem to do is chime in now and again to flex your brain muscles and give your own little judgement from all that precious material you have read as if to stamp out all us little retail traders on T2W.

 

[forker]

RSH is right about what exactly, that spot FX is not a zero sum game? that on average over time top tier players dont make money on their spot FX transactions? that you cant use a zero sum game argument as in some cases banks may take a loss on some spot FX transactions and generate revenue elsewhere?

As for your condescending post about avoiding talking about things I have no direct experience of, well I guess I am no match for you big brain huh? No I dont have any experience of being a spot FX dealer at a bank and their relationship to prop desks.

Actually you advice to me to avoid talking about things I have no direct experience of says more about you than me. You see I know what I need to know. I DO NOT need to know how IB's account between their flow/prop desks to trade profitably. All I need to know is that they are there, how they are likely to operate. Your advice to me is typical of an over analysis approach like you need to cover all bases you must be an expert in absolutely everything to succeed, again another reason why a lot of traders fail. The inability to zero in on what matters and what doesn't matter. It is telling that the issues RSH and you have raised have no bearing on whether a retail trader is profitable.

Analysis, more analysis, more analysis, too much. Unless you zero in on what matters and focus on that you can be a walking investopedia or knowledge but you cant trade for toffee (and I dont mean YOU cant trade, I dont know you)

all I know is that when I am in the market as a small trader there are larger traders out there who can and do move the market and more often than not these larger players make more money than the smaller retail players. that's all i need to know to zero in on what matters before further analysis.

since you gave me a little guidance I will give you some.

Why don't you make a positive contribution to the forum? All you seem to do is chime in now and again to flex your brain muscles and give your own little judgement from all that precious material you have read as if to stamp out all us little retail traders on T2W.

Word of advice, review your posts before you submit because they are riddled with bad English.
As far as taking you seriously goes, this last post sums you up quite nicely for me. Please just do us all a favour. While trading your "yards", please give us little people some slack. You accuse others of being condescending but who is more so, the person stating the obvious or the person who claims to be elite that started a thread titled " why retail FX traders loose".

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

Word of advice, review your posts before you submit because they are riddled with bad English.
As far as taking you seriously goes, this last post sums you up quite nicely for me. Please just do us all a favour. While trading your "yards", please give us little people some slack. You accuse others of being condescending but who is more so, the person stating the obvious or the person who claims to be elite that started a thread titled " why retail FX traders loose".

lol forker, I dont trade yards, it was a joke muppet. nowhere did i claim to be elite you muppet it's just a thread about why retail traders lose. still it through up a few gems like your 'bank traders dont go after smaller traders' that was pure T2W gold. that was enough lulz to keep me going for some time.

 

[scose-no-doubt]

Fullofsh1tDigestive Lulz

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

Fullofsh1tDigestive Lulz

hey troller. this thread is for traders only.

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

eurusd london am action. I believe some big players got caught offside as they tried to make a play for 1.2382 which could potentially move them onto an option expiry @ 1.24. german finance minister came out with an ill timed comment (for the big player) and they got swiped, dont know if they unloaded but someone just spent the last hour defending 1.23's hard. they are still doing it as we speak, they will have to make their move soon, lunch is coming up and US is coming online. a ton of people want to see 1.23 print but it looks like the larger player(s) who got caught earlier may still be holding things up.

this is the bigger picture not arguing over adding up how IB's account for their prop/flow desks. I am just sayin.

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

a lot of retail resting orders looking to buy under 1.23, provide liquidity to let big player out. I am short into 1.23 from 1.2321 but have taken heat as I still think the big player that got offside earlier is in the hunt, trouble is they are running out of time.

 

[forker]

One big turd....