Why i think most traders fail? Change your ways. Now.

ZiadMasri said:
Markus,

Thanks for the welcome note. My journey has been crazy to say the least, but the only colorful and eventful part of it was when I went off on my own. You wouldn't believe how many crap hedge funds and prop firms there are out there. I'm just glad I made the decision to do my own thing early on. Of course, there are great firms and funds out there too- I just wasn't fortunate enough to be acquainted with them.

I don't know if I'll stick around after this thread, but I will be writing some thoughts of mine every once in a while on E-mini player's blog. I don't particularly enjoy writing, but every once in a while i have something to get off my chest for the benefit of myself and others and so I throw out a post.

Anyhow, good luck with ur trading and maybe i'll catch u later...

Ziad
Click to expand...



hey Ziad

fell into your Blog via a fellow traders newsletter (lance beggs)

excellent insights into learning and why most people fail......(trading or otherwise)

good luck in the path you walk my friend (y)

Neil
NVP
 
Mr X . . . I read the first page of this post after a friend directed me to it . . . admittedly had no time to read the rest . . .

I call BS . . . you're either too young or you're trying to sell something . . .

Your post seems like an emotional rant, there really was no need for that long a post . . . you could've easily summed it up as:

1. I'm a star, I turned 5K into 300K
2. The rest of you are morons . . . even though you've been trading successfully for more than x yrs
3. If you want to learn how to be successful like me, please PM me or email me . . .

There are only 3 truths in trading, buddy . . .

1. You are long
2. You are short
3, You are sitting on your hands

And, each and every trader has rules (logic), anything that has logic can be done over and over again (and for the most part, be programmed). . . so while you shun the "simple rules" of traders with tenor . . . you are in fact alluding to the same . . . your mental map? That is a set of rules believe it or not . . . don't try to cheat yourself [and others] that you are not following rules . . .

I've been trading for a little over a year [researched for +7yrs] . . . I make anywhere from $300-$10K a day, and again admittedly with a little more risk than your 1% (LOL) . . . I turned $15K into 400K in that time . . . so obviously not as good as your results . . . but I have the utmost respect for traders who have survived different market conditions over a prolonged time frame . . . Even with the [mediocre] success I've had I still worry about how my results would change when market slows (reduced volatility) for a prolonged time frame . . . The past 2yrs have offered enough chances even for a monkey to make money . . . but can you sustain it . . . that is what keeps me awake at night . . .

So, be careful as a novice trader with little tenor in giving advice to seasoned traders about why they are "failing" . . . or on how they need a "mental shift" . . . those guys know what they're doing and are probably laughing at your rant . . .

Please don't PM me (anyone), I will not be lookging at my PMs . . .
 
Uneed2C said:
Mr X . . . I read the first page of this post after a friend directed me to it . . . admittedly had no time to read the rest . . .

I call BS . . . you're either too young or you're trying to sell something . . .

Your post seems like an emotional rant, there really was no need for that long a post . . . you could've easily summed it up as:

1. I'm a star, I turned 5K into 300K
2. The rest of you are morons . . . even though you've been trading successfully for more than x yrs
3. If you want to learn how to be successful like me, please PM me or email me . . .

There are only 3 truths in trading, buddy . . .

1. You are long
2. You are short
3, You are sitting on your hands

And, each and every trader has rules (logic), anything that has logic can be done over and over again (and for the most part, be programmed). . . so while you shun the "simple rules" of traders with tenor . . . you are in fact alluding to the same . . . your mental map? That is a set of rules believe it or not . . . don't try to cheat yourself [and others] that you are not following rules . . .

I've been trading for a little over a year [researched for +7yrs] . . . I make anywhere from $300-$10K a day, and again admittedly with a little more risk than your 1% (LOL) . . . I turned $15K into 400K in that time . . . so obviously not as good as your results . . . but I have the utmost respect for traders who have survived different market conditions over a prolonged time frame . . . Even with the [mediocre] success I've had I still worry about how my results would change when market slows (reduced volatility) for a prolonged time frame . . . The past 2yrs have offered enough chances even for a monkey to make money . . . but can you sustain it . . . that is what keeps me awake at night . . .

So, be careful as a novice trader with little tenor in giving advice to seasoned traders about why they are "failing" . . . or on how they need a "mental shift" . . . those guys know what they're doing and are probably laughing at your rant . . .

Please don't PM me (anyone), I will not be lookging at my PMs . . .
Click to expand...


?
 
Ladies & Gentlemen,

I really don't want to be engaged in a flame fest, it's just a huge waste of time . . .

perhaps my original post was misunderstood . . .

I had 2 issues with the OPs post, which I opined on either directly on indirectly:

1. The OP thought his/her method was superior and everybody should just drop what they were doing, throw out their [silly] rulebooks, and follow him her.

2. The OP seemed to be supporting that superiority with his/her result of 15K to 300K

As regards the first point above, I found the OP a little misguided/naive. All decisions traders make are based on some logic and some rules, albeit different ones, but they are still rules! To basically tell a seasoned traded that "you are a moron, regardless of how successful a trading career you've had", is imho, stupid, and deserving of rebuke . .

As for the second point, I meant to allude to the fact that even I as a novice trader (+1yr) made money in a market that offered plenty of opportunities. But that I recognize that fact and am not convinced that that is sustainable result. Had I had the tenor of traders who have traded successfully for 10,15, 30yrs, with a backdrop of different market cycles and different volatility conditions, then maybe I would be more convinced about about my performance.

That was all!

I guess sometimes just admitting to being new to trading is almost a criminal offense, and more often than not becoming the target of finger pointing, name calling and flaming . . . Still, I believe I have a lot to learn, by myself and through those rare gems of threads one may have the luck to run into on trade forums . . .

Good Trading!
 
It's been a while since I visited this thread. I'm very impressed that the OP turned £5k into £300k (is that right?) in 12 months, betting only 1 pct a time (hmmmm extremely unlikely but whatever, I'll believe it).

So then what, the point of this thread is that everyone else is sucking wind? Should we all just give up now?
 
meanreversion said:
It's been a while since I visited this thread. I'm very impressed that the OP turned £5k into £300k (is that right?) in 12 months, betting only 1 pct a time (hmmmm extremely unlikely but whatever, I'll believe it).

So then what, the point of this thread is that everyone else is sucking wind? Should we all just give up now?
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Get a simulator and make your mistakes on them , I forgot most of you think demo accounts are an insult :LOL:Only humbled traders accepting the tea boy status can rise as top prop dog.

Learn to read the markets from the charts , I was lucky enough to have my own business which allowed me to sit infront of a screen for thousands of hours and learn to read the markets from the charts.

Or sit there and deny what the first post stated is not true.I agree entirely with the first post , and thats why I have joined the orignal poster.My path and beliefs are no different.

I have made countless systems ,looked at hundreds of set ups and made and tested hundreds of systems.These systems and set ups are not enough.You need skills to trade, and skills come only with knowledge(reading books, articles,forums) and practise on live and demo accounts.Practise trading skills on demo accounts(not live accounts when you are making most mistakes), it helps perfect your skills.:LOL:Oh! you too big to go on demo.

Me .I learnt how to swim in the shark tank :D Not like a scared trader living in fear and greed , afraid of the sharks and fishing for pips from the shore with a one mile string.

Ha Ha Ha
 
oildaytrader said:
Learn to read the markets from the charts , I was lucky enough to have my own business which allowed me to sit infront of a screen for thousands of hours and learn to read the markets from the charts.

Or sit there and deny what the first post stated is not true.I agree entirely with the first post , and thats why I have joined the orignal poster.My path and beliefs are no different.

I have made countless systems ,looked at hundreds of set ups and made and tested hundreds of systems.These systems and set ups are not enough.You need skills to trade, and skills come only with knowledge(reading books, articles,forums) and practise on live and demo accounts.Practise trading skills on demo accounts(not live accounts when you are making most mistakes), it helps perfect your skills.:LOL:Oh! you too big to go on demo.
Click to expand...

Your usual level of piffle, ODT.

1. You had a business that allowed you to spend "thousands" of hours watching a screen.. what were you, a freelance librarian?

2. So it's official.. you spent 1,000 posts advocating purely mechanical systems but have now completely abandoned that. How can you be sure that you won't abandon your current "system" in a few posts from now?

3. The OP makes some good points, but the issue I would have is this assertion that he has found THE method to make money (I guess you feel you have too). So you both deny that mechanical systems can work.. try telling that to Man (second largest HF in the world), JWHenry (owner of Boston Red Sox), Larry Hite, Richard Dennis and others.

4. You constantly descend into using analogies (swimming with sharks, running with bulls etc) which is proof you haven't got a clue what you're talking about.

5. How is your mercenary trading going? Are you on live yet or still on demo (after thousands of hours looking at screens and years of testing every system under the sun)?
 
oildaytrader said:
Get a simulator and make your mistakes on them , I forgot most of you think demo accounts are an insult :LOL:Only humbled traders accepting the tea boy status can rise as top prop dog.

Learn to read the markets from the charts , I was lucky enough to have my own business which allowed me to sit infront of a screen for thousands of hours and learn to read the markets from the charts.

Or sit there and deny what the first post stated is not true.I agree entirely with the first post , and thats why I have joined the orignal poster.My path and beliefs are no different.

I have made countless systems ,looked at hundreds of set ups and made and tested hundreds of systems.These systems and set ups are not enough.You need skills to trade, and skills come only with knowledge(reading books, articles,forums) and practise on live and demo accounts.Practise trading skills on demo accounts(not live accounts when you are making most mistakes), it helps perfect your skills.:LOL:Oh! you too big to go on demo.

Me .I learnt how to swim in the shark tank :D Not like a scared trader living in fear and greed , afraid of the sharks and fishing for pips from the shore with a one mile string.

Ha Ha Ha
Click to expand...

Oildaytrader,

Your kind of post does not ring true to me, I'm sorry. I've read all this Ha Ha Ha stuff so many times before.
 
meanreversion said:
Your usual level of piffle, ODT.

1. You had a business that allowed you to spend "thousands" of hours watching a screen.. what were you, a freelance librarian?

A wholesale commodities merchant watching the commodities markets as part of my business.

2. So it's official.. you spent 1,000 posts advocating purely mechanical systems but have now completely abandoned that. How can you be sure that you won't abandon your current "system" in a few posts from now?

I have not abadoned them, they are still working O K .They need a few improvements to make them truly robust.

I do not have current system , this is me as a discretionary trader.

3. The OP makes some good points, but the issue I would have is this assertion that he has found THE method to make money (I guess you feel you have too). So you both deny that mechanical systems can work.. try telling that to Man (second largest HF in the world), JWHenry (owner of Boston Red Sox), Larry Hite, Richard Dennis and others.

I don't deny mechanical systems work, they need to be very robust to work and deal with changing market conditions.

4. You constantly descend into using analogies (swimming with sharks, running with bulls etc) which is proof you haven't got a clue what you're talking about.

What proof?

5. How is your mercenary trading going? Are you on live yet or still on demo (after thousands of hours looking at screens and years of testing every system under the sun)?

I an already on live and I make money everyday .I have been on live for years.
Click to expand...

This darn posting costs the mercenary some concentration pips.Must stop.
 
Keep it easy! Traders fail because they r thinking about bottoms and tops!

think about stops and u wont fail anylonger
Trader!
You'vent had enough.
But u want more.
No u won't stop.
Because u just know.
So u'll fail.
 
Trading FX for living is hard unless you have some income from somewhere,also there is no systems can beat markets, if the is one system to beat markets ,then there will be no markets exist.

good lucky
 
gbp-usd said:
Trading FX for living is hard unless you have some income from somewhere,also there is no systems can beat markets, if the is one system to beat markets ,then there will be no markets exist.

good lucky
Click to expand...

I wouldn't deny for a second that trading is hard, anyone who claims otherwise is foolish.

However, I do take issue with specious remarks along the lines of "no system can work, because if it did, everyone would use it and the market would cease to function".

This is dangerous oversimplification. Define what you mean by "beat the market". Does this mean simply to return more than the S&P? Between 2008-2009, simply being flat would have beaten the S&P quite handsomely.. my Barclays current account therefore beat the market.

Suggesting that no "system" can beat the market implies that adhering to a set of rules to rigorously is dangerous, as that is a system and therefore can not make money (using this logic). Taken further, the implication is that one needs trading "smarts" or some kind of gut feel to make money from the market. This again is dangerous, as it could lead to loss of discipline.

There are several very successful mechanical, systematic hedge funds out there. They use a system and OVER TIME have done quite well. Over the last day or two, maybe they sucked, but over a ten year horizon they have performed.

And I think that is the key .... trading should be regarded as a long term endeavour. It's unlikely any system extracts money from the market day after day after day, but then again, the very best discretionary trader in the world is unlikely to do that either.

You do need a system of some sort when trading. You won't beat the market all the time (whatever that means) but neither would you expect to. All you can hope is that your system has positive expectancy over a time frame which enable you to achieve your financial objectives.
 
meanreversion said:
I wouldn't deny for a second that trading is hard, anyone who claims otherwise is foolish.

However, I do take issue with specious remarks along the lines of "no system can work, because if it did, everyone would use it and the market would cease to function".

This is dangerous oversimplification. Define what you mean by "beat the market". Does this mean simply to return more than the S&P? Between 2008-2009, simply being flat would have beaten the S&P quite handsomely.. my Barclays current account therefore beat the market.

Suggesting that no "system" can beat the market implies that adhering to a set of rules to rigorously is dangerous, as that is a system and therefore can not make money (using this logic). Taken further, the implication is that one needs trading "smarts" or some kind of gut feel to make money from the market. This again is dangerous, as it could lead to loss of discipline.

There are several very successful mechanical, systematic hedge funds out there. They use a system and OVER TIME have done quite well. Over the last day or two, maybe they sucked, but over a ten year horizon they have performed.

And I think that is the key .... trading should be regarded as a long term endeavour. It's unlikely any system extracts money from the market day after day after day, but then again, the very best discretionary trader in the world is unlikely to do that either.

You do need a system of some sort when trading. You won't beat the market all the time (whatever that means) but neither would you expect to. All you can hope is that your system has positive expectancy over a time frame which enable you to achieve your financial objectives.
Click to expand...

(y) thaaaat's more like it! i know a lot of traders out there risk 10-20% on every trade, so that every trade is important, but personally i think risking less and being slightly mechanical in your approach helps to think long term positive expectancy, and helps to reduce the 'hit' when you lose,because if you work with a system which has a long term edge then the inevitable losses along the way have nothing to do with your trading ability :)

edit: when i say slighty mechcanical i mean, say for example i think GBPUSD off hourlies right now looks like a nice buy, i could wait for a good bar set up which i have backtested, say engulfish,inside bar or whatnot,then manage accordingly.
 
Chartsy,.... I'd go along with Mark Douglas, and his explanation of mechanical systems.
They're good for training the mind to pull the trigger,..but as ones ability to "see" the market improves,..discretionary trading takes over,..and is far more expedient in facilitating the profit motive.
 
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