What are the Key Differences Between Successes and Failures?

[TheBramble]

This thread has been spawned from the very interesting topic started by Millano. His question asked 'why' so few traders were successful. My question avoids any debate of that being a valid (or relatively valid) question in itself and hopefully, even any debate on success/failure within a trading context.

(I know I opened this thread in Gen Trading Chat. Mods - please move if appropriate to Foyer if preferred).

We all know people who are successful and those who are complete failures. Given the relatively solitary nature of independent trading, we're unlikely to know too many of either cadre within a trading context. So, hopefully completely devoid of any trading spin for the moment:-

What do you see, feel, think, sense, consider are the key fundamental characteristics of those people you know, or know of, that are Successful and those that are Failures?​

I've got a few to list on each side myself, but I'd like to encourage others to have a go first, just to get the ball rolling.

And before anyone expects me to reveal "The Answer" - I don't yet have one. I hope the process on this thread will help me, and others, unravel that piece of information.

The thing is, I know we all 'know' instinctively and inherently what these characteristics and actions are which separate the 'Haves' form the 'Have Nots'. What I'm struggling with is an assumption. An assumption that the majority (of any group) want more than they currently have. They want to achieve more than they have currently achieved. Most have expectations that have not been met and what they thought they wanted has not materialised.

While the spectrum of achievement is as wide, and let's assume a normal distribution within in - (why not?), the rewards don't always go to those with the best start in life, most money, good looks, good contacts, greatest effort, strongest desire or the most worthy. The rewards often, in our opinion, end up with those who, by some measurement of human nature, didn't really deserve it!

So, what are the key differences separating those who Succeed from those who Fail?

 

[indexgold]

The successful people simply refused to give up

 

[jezza888]

The successful people simply refused to give up

What about the ones who refuse to and end up in cardboard boxes?!

Persistance holds no guarantees...

 

[trendie]

The successful people simply refused to give up ... their hard-won edge to others

 

[jezza888]

Are we discussing a purely 'business/finacial' success here or success in general?

 

[TheBramble]

So the current amalgam is:-

Persistence - (might that also imply a longish period of time and therefore also a requirement for funding - in any endeavour?)
Validity - (in what they're doing - objectively measurable validity - not just their own opinion. So a good product, service, system, method, idea...) Persistence alone wont do it.
Competitive Advantage - Marketplace or Peer Superiority.

This seems like a positively good start.

 

[frugi]

All the below predictable but may lead to more interesting dissection by others.

Integrity, graft, persistence, self-belief, interest and satisfaction found in the process not the money.
Balance in life offering support in the background.
Disregard of convention.
A paradoxical mix of what could be described as arrogance and humility.

 

[TheBramble]

Are we discussing a purely 'business/finacial' success here or success in general?

Very much in general jezza. The 'business/financial' side has been done a lot on these boards and in relation to these types of enquiries, for fairly obvious reasons. While that's fine too, I'd certainly welcome characteristics of "Success" from other fields and areas.

I believe what we'll maybe be able to do once we have the rough 'ingredients' is an attempt on a higher logical level to see to what all those ingredients might relate as a general class.

 

[jezza888]

Great thread idea TheBramble, looking forward to seeing how it progresses...

 

[TheBramble]

Integrity, graft, persistence, self-belief, interest and satisfaction found in the process not the money.

Integrity in all cases or just most? Do you know any successful rogues?

Balance in life offering support in the background.

What do you mean by that?

Disregard of convention.

Such as Branson? But isn't he the exception? By that I mean aren't there more conventional successful people than mavericks?

A paradoxical mix of what could be described as arrogance and humilit

Not going to let you get away with paradoxes. What does that 'paradoxical mix' come out in the wash as? What would I or anyone else have do do or say to 'have' that paradoxical mix? How could we recognise it in others?

I really am after the nitty-gritty. We're setting about modelling "Success" here after all.

 

[sulong]

Success and failure are not a destinations, but an attitude of traveling.
For those that believe success and failure are destinations, I suspect they will never find “it”.

 

[TheBramble]

Success and failure are not a destinations, but an attitude of traveling.
For those that believe success and failure are destinations, I suspect they will never find “it”.

This ties in with Frugi's comment "interest and satisfaction found in the process not the money".

This feels warm. What is it about an on-going process which IS Success that is not in an on-going process which IS Failure?

Or, without any attempt to befuddle, what is it that IS NOT in the on-going process of Success (and in that of Failure) which makes them what they are?

That doesn't make a lot of sense, but I'm leaving it in as it might come to me later.

I guess what I'm asking Sulong is if Success is an 'attitude of travelling' - what is that attitude precisely? Because being hopeful, great expectations, desirous of a good result - these are all things with which people travel on the road. Some end in Success, some in Failure. There has to be a nuance which is significant as you can't call anything a Success or a Failure until it has become so - i.e. - final result, the end of that road. (edit: expansion of point) I can travel with a very confident and successful aspect about me, but it could all end in tears. Failure. Not Success. The destination is equally important, or there is the danger of deluding yourself into thinking 'everything is OK so far - so I must be doing the right thing'. Personally, when everything's going fine for me I'm wondering what I'm missing. Diligence? (end of edit).

So if the method or mode of travelling is important (which I am also convinced it is) - what IS that mode or method?

 

[trendie]

Success: what kind ? objective or peer-defined ?

objective success:
quantifiably running faster than seven other athletes in the 100m.
quantifiably scoring a higher total at the olympic shooting or archery events.
quantifiably scoring more goals than the other team.

peer-defined success:
CD sales in music. ( rubbish one-hit wonders selling more records through clever PR and media events, than true musicians/artists such as Beth Orton and Thea Gilmore, for example. )

movies: trashy, special-effects filled movies grossing more than better, but thought-provoking films.
success here will still be defined by ticket sales.

success: who defines who receives it / deserves it ?
Alan Shepard was the first american in space. But John Glenn is regarded as the american space hero.
Who decides Shepard is not remembered for his "success"?

Nobel:
Hewish and Ryle were awarded a Nobel prize for their work on radio-astronomy and pulsars.
However, a key member of the team, Jocelyn Bell, ( a woman ), was not given her due.
Objectively, her work and contribution was considerable, and deserved a share.
Subjectively, her work, and thus, "success" was denied.

How do we decide what quantifies success, and who deserves it, and importantly, who bestows it ?

this opens up a whole lot of socio-political issues.
( wasnt Jesse Owens denied his olympic gold medal(s) because he didnt fit the political view that Hitler wanted to push?
how many "leftish" americans were denied success because they lived in the McCarthy era ? )
EDIT: equally, how many entrepeunurial (sp) russians were denied success because they lived in communist russia ?

good thread, TheBramble. hope the answers you get are worthy of your aims of modelling success.

 

[indexgold]

We must always guard ourselves against getting mired in the pit of yesterday's failures. When we take a objective look at our failures, we often find they can become major steps on our road to success.

 

[TheBramble]

objective success:
quantifiably running faster than seven other athletes in the 100m.
quantifiably scoring a higher total at the olympic shooting or archery events.
quantifiably scoring more goals than the other team.

Superior Performance.

CD sales in music. ( rubbish one-hit wonders selling more records through clever PR and media events, than true musicians/artists such as Beth Orton and Thea Gilmore, for example. )

Market/Client Knowledge

movies: trashy, special-effects filled movies grossing more than better, but thought-provoking films.
success here will still be defined by ticket sales.

Market/Client Knowledge

Alan Shepard was the first american in space. But John Glenn is regarded as the american space hero.
Who decides Shepard is not remembered for his "success"?

Regarded by who as more successful. You've lost me there Trendie.

Hewish and Ryle were awarded a Nobel prize for their work on radio-astronomy and pulsars.
However, a key member of the team, Jocelyn Bell, ( a woman ), was not given her due.
Objectively, her work and contribution was considerable, and deserved a share.
Subjectively, her work, and thus, "success" was denied.

Was her 'right' to success denied her by a 3rd party or did she fail to Succeed by failing to do what Successful people do?

 

[trendie]

We must always guard ourselves against getting mired in the pit of yesterday's failures. When we take a objective look at our failures, we often find they can become major steps on our road to success.

we NEVER learn - the fact we started to put numbers to our World Wars is a testament to that.
we NEVER change - thats why Shakespeares plays about human frailties, weaknesses and emotions translate so well into all cultures and all eras.

I though of another one:

Success: saying the world is the centre of Gods creation, and winning the accolades of the wealthy and powerful church.
Failure: saying the world is NOT at the centre of the universe, and being burnt alive.
( only history allows them to be recognised as martyrs )
I shall stop now. it has been a quiet day.

 

[TheBramble]

We must always guard ourselves against getting mired in the pit of yesterday's failures. When we take a objective look at our failures, we often find they can become major steps on our road to success.

That's an interesting one and counter-experiential for me.

Seems most successful people make a point of objectively reviewing their mistakes and failures to get the learnings from that event. Why pay twice for the same mistake?

I think the key thing you mentioned was 'objective'. When you maintain objectivity, even or especially with, your mistakes, there's nothing but positive from it.

Can I add objective review of mistakes to our list or am I alone on this one?

 

[Trader333]

In my view the idea that success in trading is about your own perception can only hold true if you have a desired result to be anything other than making a profit. In all other cases you can go around telling people that you are a success but when you cant afford to live, (or carry on trading), then I think you have failed because the goal in trading for me is ongoing sustained profit and all else is ultimately irrelevent.


Paul

 

[Pat494]

An interesting thought SUCCESS
It often means to people to get what they haven't got.
The poor usually desire money. If they become rich they see that as success.
This to my mind brings in the most important aspect of happiness.
The man who achieves his life long goal and therefore success may well also experience the feeling of loss. What loss you may say if he has achieved that which he strived for all those years. The loss of an objective - a goal.
Of the many millions that have come to this country, a lot over the centuries started in the East End of London. The materially successful nearly always moved out of the very enviroment in which they achieved their success to better areas like Golders Green , Hampstead and even a country estate..
Were they so happy in the large house with a garden and high walls. I doubt it.
Was Elvis so happy with his millions that he needed alchohol and drugs - I doubt it.
Perhaps Bramble can explain this conundrum ?

 

[sulong]

So if the method or mode of travelling is important (which I am also convinced it is) - what IS that mode or method?

Due to the fact that people die often unexpectedly, using the end result to determine success or failure is unrealistic
The only true measure one can take of him/herself is performance up till now. The thing that is measured is adherence to their moral code. If a person deems themselves a failure, then the likely reason is that they had/have an undefined set of codes, or acting in contrast to their codes.

For a person who desires to find a yet elusive success, an examination of past and future code of ethics may be needed, and the hierarchy of those codes.

An example of these.

To question
To investigate
To act on reason
To forgive
To exercise all senses
To chose ones own master
To move forward
To act on your own best interest
To accept your choices