Vote Labour

Jan 14, 2003
8,421
870
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#81
...With MBA's and all Masters coming out in droves from all Universities in whole Planet..and with all decision making....UK, US and Europe still slid into bog hole....and no one was even aware of it three months before it happened.....!
I think you may have missed my point. Most MBAs are worthless because every institution started offering them and most focus on corporate strategy and not decision making. Also I have worked in many places both as an employee and a consultant and have only seen 2 organizations that use any form of structured decision making process. In both of these they were world leaders in their field which they put down to the implementation of continuous improvement philosophies, tools and techniques and the use of quality deployment which is a process used for making high level decisions.

I have absolutely no doubt at all that if this was used in government as well as industry in general the UK would not be in the mess that it is today.


Paul
 

zupcon

Well-known member
Nov 14, 2004
1,162
322
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#82
I think you may have missed my point. Most MBAs are worthless because every institution started offering them and most focus on corporate strategy and not decision making.
But surely in most real life projects of any complexity, a formalised decision making process will be dependant on the weighting of the various factors that need to be taken into account.

Its interesting observing how people behave when these types of formalised approaches are used, and the process reveals an answer they dont like, they tend to change the methodology to suit their gut reaction.

I'd argue that strategy is far more important. I'd rather take a random selection from a group of coherent well thought through strategies than try to identify the optimum from a group of incoherent ill thought through strategies !
 

Atilla

Well-known member
Nov 15, 2006
18,102
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#83
I think you may have missed my point. Most MBAs are worthless because every institution started offering them and most focus on corporate strategy and not decision making. Also I have worked in many places both as an employee and a consultant and have only seen 2 organizations that use any form of structured decision making process. In both of these they were world leaders in their field which they put down to the implementation of continuous improvement philosophies, tools and techniques and the use of quality deployment which is a process used for making high level decisions.

I have absolutely no doubt at all that if this was used in government as well as industry in general the UK would not be in the mess that it is today.


Paul

Tell us more Paul - I'm intrigued.

Are we talking ROI, cost benefit analysis as inputs into the decision process or is it more in terms of beraucratic or dynamic operational structure in the organisation. I've lightly skimmed these subjects but not studied in depth.

I've always felt UK decisions very short term based with quick gains as opposed to the German model with banks involvement taking a longer time view for return on investment.
 

zambuck

Well-known member
Jan 30, 2003
1,609
101
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#84
I think you may have missed my point. Most MBAs are worthless because every institution started offering them and most focus on corporate strategy and not decision making. Also I have worked in many places both as an employee and a consultant and have only seen 2 organizations that use any form of structured decision making process. In both of these they were world leaders in their field which they put down to the implementation of continuous improvement philosophies, tools and techniques and the use of quality deployment which is a process used for making high level decisions.

I have absolutely no doubt at all that if this was used in government as well as industry in general the UK would not be in the mess that it is today.


Paul
...All right, perhaps I missed the point...

...We have Politicians and their Departments....Now who run these Departments...?...Civil Servants....Are these Economists, Business Advisers, Accountants...?...What is their job..What are their Qualifications..?..When COE is formulating his Budget, whose advice he relies on..?

The whole purpose of Civil Service Department, which is massive, is to do exactly what you are proposing...But is there any success rate there..?...No...the reason is that Politicians rarely take their advise...!
 
Jan 14, 2003
8,421
870
173
UK
#85
But surely in most real life projects of any complexity, a formalised decision making process will be dependant on the weighting of the various factors that need to be taken into account.
Yes and there are ways to do this.

Its interesting observing how people behave when these types of formalised approaches are used, and the process reveals an answer they dont like, they tend to change the methodology to suit their gut reaction.
This is not my experience of how this has worked but I am curious if you can give an example ?

I'd argue that strategy is far more important. I'd rather take a random selection from a group of coherent well thought through strategies than try to identify the optimum from a group of incoherent ill thought through strategies !
I am unsure what you mean by this ?


Paul
 

Atilla

Well-known member
Nov 15, 2006
18,102
2,476
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#87
I will when I have a bit more time.


Paul

How about you make it one of your contribution or write up for T2W site as part of your new assignement - by popullar public demand... :cheesy:

Shall I start a petition to get Sharky to give the nod... ;)
 
Jan 14, 2003
8,421
870
173
UK
#88
How about you make it one of your contribution or write up for T2W site as part of your new assignement - by popullar public demand... :cheesy:

Shall I start a petition to get Sharky to give the nod... ;)
I take your point, however it is not trading related.


Paul
 

zambuck

Well-known member
Jan 30, 2003
1,609
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#90
.....Everything on this planet from a growing seedling...to grazing cows....to Politics...to people having pint....to a hot curry....to going to sleep....IS...Trading related....

...All aspect of mankind's daily ritual affects Trading of stocks and Commodities...!
 

zupcon

Well-known member
Nov 14, 2004
1,162
322
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#91
I take your point, however it is not trading related.
Paul
Non trading related articles have been published previously (probably by accident). Any sort of analytical technique can potentially be applied to some aspect of your trading, and I would have thought decision making was a reasonable candidate for discussion.
 

millsy500

Active member
Dec 5, 2004
355
21
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#92
love Littlejohn or hate him this made me laugh....

Some years ago I wrote that while Peter Mandelson might fancy himself as a modern-day Machiavelli, he's always struck me as Iago played by Kenneth Williams.
Mandy is the ultimate courtier, a sort of political Paul Burrell. He would have made someone a lovely butler.
So it is perhaps fitting that he has finally been given a job in keeping with his talents - organising the Queen's 60th Jubilee celebrations. success he made of the Millennium Dome, with its futuristic New Labour vision of a multicultural, multi-faith Britain
Mandelson is already hard at work on his plans. It is designed to be inspiring, inclusive and carbon-neutral.
In the weeks before the anniversary of her coronation, Her Maj will embark on a nationwide cycling tour to meet her loyal subjects.
First stop will be Luton, where she will attend a ritual beheading carried out by the local chapter of Islam4UK, a tradition which dates back to Henry VIII.
Moving on to Northampton, she will visit one of Britain's last remaining shoe-bombing factories, which will be presented with a Queen's Award for Export.
Later that day, in Birmingham, she will inspect a ceremonial march-past by the 3rd West Midlands regiment of Islamic Jihad, who have just returned from a tour of duty in Yemen.
In the Peak District, Her Maj will cut the ribbon at a special ceremony to unveil Britain's one-millionth wind turbine before pedalling to Manchester, where she will be treated to an enthralling demonstration of drive-by shooting, performed by the Moss Side Massive.
The royal entourage will proceed to Morecambe, so Prince Philip can insult some Chinese cockle pickers.
In nearby Blackpool, she will switch off the illuminations to demonstrate Britain's commitment to tackling global warming and open a polar bear sanctuary.
After that, it's on to Edinburgh, where the Queen will formally sign the declaration of Scottish independence. She will join President Alex Salmond and Sir Sean Connery for the ceremonial burning of the Union Flag on Castle Hill and the unscrewing of road signs along the Royal Mile, which is being renamed 'Braveheart Boulevard'. Only the breakaway province of Ibrox will remain part of the United Kingdom.
In Newcastle, she will be taken on a conducted tour of the lively Bigg Market, where she will be greeted by locals wearing their traditional black-and-white replica football shirts and can experience first-hand some of the North-East's quaint folk customs, including binge-drinking and projectile vomiting.
Over in Bradford, she will lay the foundation stone for the new Sharia Court and be guest-of-honour at a forced marriage.
As the big day approaches, the Queen will accompany the Prince of Wales to Cardiff, where she will be treated to a performance of the ancient Welsh 'knickers-round-the-ankles' dance at chucking-out time in the city centre.
At Her Majesty's service: Peter Mandelson will become the ultimate courtier by organising the Queen's 60th Jubilee
On her way back to Windsor, she will open the new Heathrow Terminal Six and inspect the airport's latest state-of-the-art security equipment, which will involve her stripping naked and submitting to a full CAT scan.
At Portsmouth, she will review the Fleet, which by 2012 will consist of a rusty World War II frigate, the Mary Rose and a couple of pedaloes. There will also be a fly-past by the Red Arrow.
In South London, she will open another showpiece branch of IKEA, which will be marked by a display of synchronised stabbing, arising from a dispute over a cut-price sofa.
On the anniversary itself, the Queen's day will begin with a visit to the new Museum of Quantitative Easing at the Bank of England, where the last coins featuring her head are being smelted down for scrap in a desperate attempt to pay off some of Britain's mounting £3trillion debt.
After a modest vegetarian banquet at the Oxford Street Spud'U'Like, Her Maj will unveil a specially commissioned statue of The Unknown Asylum-Seeker outside the Binyam Mohammed Central Mosque ( formerly Westminster Abbey) to mark Britain's population officially passing 75 million.
That evening, the Queen will attend her final Royal Command Performance from the Stephen Gately Theatre, introduced by Stephen Fry and featuring a diverse range of performers, including Graham Norton, Alan Carr and Julian Clary. Broadcast exclusively on Twitter, the top-of-the-bill attraction will be Jonathan Ross and Russell Brand telling the Duke of Edinburgh that they've had sex with his granddaughters.
The following day, the Queen will preside over the State Closing of Parliament, after all remaining powers are transferred to Brussels.
She will then abdicate and hand over the keys to Buckingham Palace to Peter Mandelson, who is appointed the EU's first Lord High Governor-General of the European Administrative Area (Western District and Islands).
Her Maj will be given a 21-handgun salute by the Brixton Krayzee Eyes Killas Possee and piped out on kazoo by the one-man band of the Coldstream Guards, playing his version of the Sex Pistols' God Save The Queen.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...OHN-Mandelson-run-Jubilee-God-save-Queen.html
 

montmorencyt2w

Well-known member
May 17, 2008
2,620
294
93
#93
love Littlejohn or hate him this made me laugh....

Some years ago I wrote that while Peter Mandelson might fancy himself as a modern-day Machiavelli, he's always struck me as Iago played by Kenneth Williams.
Mandy is the ultimate courtier, a sort of political Paul Burrell. He would have made someone a lovely butler.
So it is perhaps fitting that he has finally been given a job in keeping with his talents - organising the Queen's 60th Jubilee celebrations. success he made of the Millennium Dome, with its futuristic New Labour vision of a multicultural, multi-faith Britain
Mandelson is already hard at work on his plans. It is designed to be inspiring, inclusive and carbon-neutral.
In the weeks before the anniversary of her coronation, Her Maj will embark on a nationwide cycling tour to meet her loyal subjects.
First stop will be Luton, where she will attend a ritual beheading carried out by the local chapter of Islam4UK, a tradition which dates back to Henry VIII.
Moving on to Northampton, she will visit one of Britain's last remaining shoe-bombing factories, which will be presented with a Queen's Award for Export.
Later that day, in Birmingham, she will inspect a ceremonial march-past by the 3rd West Midlands regiment of Islamic Jihad, who have just returned from a tour of duty in Yemen.
In the Peak District, Her Maj will cut the ribbon at a special ceremony to unveil Britain's one-millionth wind turbine before pedalling to Manchester, where she will be treated to an enthralling demonstration of drive-by shooting, performed by the Moss Side Massive.
The royal entourage will proceed to Morecambe, so Prince Philip can insult some Chinese cockle pickers.
In nearby Blackpool, she will switch off the illuminations to demonstrate Britain's commitment to tackling global warming and open a polar bear sanctuary.
After that, it's on to Edinburgh, where the Queen will formally sign the declaration of Scottish independence. She will join President Alex Salmond and Sir Sean Connery for the ceremonial burning of the Union Flag on Castle Hill and the unscrewing of road signs along the Royal Mile, which is being renamed 'Braveheart Boulevard'. Only the breakaway province of Ibrox will remain part of the United Kingdom.
In Newcastle, she will be taken on a conducted tour of the lively Bigg Market, where she will be greeted by locals wearing their traditional black-and-white replica football shirts and can experience first-hand some of the North-East's quaint folk customs, including binge-drinking and projectile vomiting.
Over in Bradford, she will lay the foundation stone for the new Sharia Court and be guest-of-honour at a forced marriage.
As the big day approaches, the Queen will accompany the Prince of Wales to Cardiff, where she will be treated to a performance of the ancient Welsh 'knickers-round-the-ankles' dance at chucking-out time in the city centre.
At Her Majesty's service: Peter Mandelson will become the ultimate courtier by organising the Queen's 60th Jubilee
On her way back to Windsor, she will open the new Heathrow Terminal Six and inspect the airport's latest state-of-the-art security equipment, which will involve her stripping naked and submitting to a full CAT scan.
At Portsmouth, she will review the Fleet, which by 2012 will consist of a rusty World War II frigate, the Mary Rose and a couple of pedaloes. There will also be a fly-past by the Red Arrow.
In South London, she will open another showpiece branch of IKEA, which will be marked by a display of synchronised stabbing, arising from a dispute over a cut-price sofa.
On the anniversary itself, the Queen's day will begin with a visit to the new Museum of Quantitative Easing at the Bank of England, where the last coins featuring her head are being smelted down for scrap in a desperate attempt to pay off some of Britain's mounting £3trillion debt.
After a modest vegetarian banquet at the Oxford Street Spud'U'Like, Her Maj will unveil a specially commissioned statue of The Unknown Asylum-Seeker outside the Binyam Mohammed Central Mosque ( formerly Westminster Abbey) to mark Britain's population officially passing 75 million.
That evening, the Queen will attend her final Royal Command Performance from the Stephen Gately Theatre, introduced by Stephen Fry and featuring a diverse range of performers, including Graham Norton, Alan Carr and Julian Clary. Broadcast exclusively on Twitter, the top-of-the-bill attraction will be Jonathan Ross and Russell Brand telling the Duke of Edinburgh that they've had sex with his granddaughters.
The following day, the Queen will preside over the State Closing of Parliament, after all remaining powers are transferred to Brussels.
She will then abdicate and hand over the keys to Buckingham Palace to Peter Mandelson, who is appointed the EU's first Lord High Governor-General of the European Administrative Area (Western District and Islands).
Her Maj will be given a 21-handgun salute by the Brixton Krayzee Eyes Killas Possee and piped out on kazoo by the one-man band of the Coldstream Guards, playing his version of the Sex Pistols' God Save The Queen.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...OHN-Mandelson-run-Jubilee-God-save-Queen.html

"played by Kenneth Williams" :LOL: Oh Littlejohn dearie, you are a bitch!


Here's Stuart Lee on Littlejohn (towards the end of the clip):

 

Pat494

Well-known member
Mar 27, 2004
13,031
1,218
223
#94
I loved the semi-pious heart searching by Jack Straw. "Should we go to war or not, it's all up to me and God"

puke puke puke

And ya made the wrong decision - you p1llock
 

Pat494

Well-known member
Mar 27, 2004
13,031
1,218
223
#95
America went to war to war basically to help the Israelis. The USA and UK were cleverly pushed into it by their Jewish lobbies, with glittering promises of plentiful oil and commercial contracts. They naively believed the grateful Iraquis would play along.

Blair got his cushy job with the bank plus another huge dollop of money via a Swiss bank, I seem to recall. But who that was from never seemed to come to the surface. Will Chilcotte dare ask ? I wonder. I suppose Brown's pay-off was No. 10.

The British and US taxpayers are now lumbered with crippling debts and an unwinnable war in Afghanistan. It just sucks all down the line imho.
 

zambuck

Well-known member
Jan 30, 2003
1,609
101
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#96
Politics in UK has reached levels of intellectual doldrums.....No Party has any tangible long term plan for this country....They are all jostling for and are reacting to Public Opinions, looking for quick fix stitches to get elected.....That seems to be the prime directive...!

The rot started in maggie tatcher's era, and it has been downhill ever since...Although Labour initially were on ball, but it soon went downhill as well...

Politics here in UK is devoid of Ethics, Morality and Substance...
 
Likes: Atilla
Jan 14, 2003
8,421
870
173
UK
#97
The rot started in maggie tatcher's era,
It started long before that with the Callahan Labour government where inflation was at 25% and almost everyone in Public Services, the car industry and many others all on strike during the Winter of discontent for those who can remember it.

I see that Gordon Brown is now pushing for the Tobin Tax as he senses that it has a good chance of getting in based on what Obama did this last week. That on its own is enough for me to vote against this government at the election.


Paul
 

zambuck

Well-known member
Jan 30, 2003
1,609
101
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#98
Labour was just unlucky at the time of probably one of the greatest upheaval in oil price hike....Western Politics had got used to the idea that oil is in safe hands...That price hike took wind off sails of many countries....Even if Tory were in power there would have been nothing they would have been able to do any different....Like it is now...They have no idea nor any Plans...They are just reacting to events and making policies as they go along..!

I must say that Tobin Tax is something I think should have been introduced long time back.....

When banks were regulated, it was seen as too stifling for Businesses and thus were deregulated....The result is that unchecked activity...hedging against he customers by Banks became norm....

Tobin Tax on the Banks activity is a very good idea....OK some bankers will have to do with supercharged Porches rather than Ferraris, but they will live and feed their children...!
 
Jan 14, 2003
8,421
870
173
UK
#99
Labour was just unlucky at the time of probably one of the greatest upheaval in oil price hike
I disagree as that was 6 years earlier and if they were so unlucky then how come inflation was sorted and so were the numerous strikes when the new government came in ? Don't get me wrong I am no fan of Thatcher as I saw the closing of numerous manufacturing industries which we have never recovered from and I was a Union leader in those days. But to say that a government is unlucky just doesn't make sense to me.


Paul
 

zambuck

Well-known member
Jan 30, 2003
1,609
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Oil peaked in 1981....Maggie Thatcher came to power in 1979, so oil kept rising after her election........It is well known fact that any rise in Oil will give rise to Inflation and then unemployment....It happens all the time as it happened recently 2 years back...!

Oil embargo and the whole episode is well known, and it's no point going into any details of it....In short the oil price rose markedly in 1973...and peaked in 1981....The result was a sharp rise in inflation....High unemployment followed.....wage demands increased....and Maggie Thatcher played 'I will get us out of mess' card and just for extra votes, played 'We will not be swamped' card and got elected....

She was doing not good at all with her Monetary Policy of inflation control by increasing interest rates....She actually screwed the country, and her Chancellor religiously lowered the interest rates around election time and then raised it.....Then came Falklands...and weak Labour and rest is history....

If you look at the scenario, Thatcher in power in early 70's would have been equally helpless as was Labour...

Let's say for discussion if Tories were in power - What do you think should have been done..?