VDM Markets - upto £500 cash back offer

[webinvester]

Does anyone who has a VDM account have a copy of the email they sent regarding an offer of up to £500 cash back (matching funds deposited).

I inadvertently deleted it and can't find any reference to it on the VDM website.

Webinvester

 

[KillPhil08]

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/general-trading-chat/59154-vdmgm-offer-back-existing-customers.html

 

[webinvester]

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/general-trading-chat/59154-vdmgm-offer-back-existing-customers.html

Again, you've been very helpful. Sorry, can't rep you again yet, but would if I could.

 

[MikeYass]

It's a very good offer- makes you wonder what they are thinking offering that amount of risk free trading.

 

[Phil Mibbutz]

The catch seems to be that you can never withdraw the money. They've changed the T&Cs from the earlier 'Credit Match' offer.

 

[KillPhil08]

You can withdraw the money that you put into the account, just not the stuff they credited. Hence extra margin. Who would give away £500...

 

[Phil Mibbutz]

You can withdraw the money that you put into the account, just not the stuff they credited.

That's what I thought, but apparently you have to use your own money before you use their money, so you effectively can't withdraw what was put in... No, I don't understand it, either.

 

[KillPhil08]

Yes, if your in loss you cannot withdraw the bonus. Repeat this again for the newbies:

You CANNOT withdraw the bonus money if your account is showing a loss.

Hence, do the 3 trades on the ftse. Cut each one at +/- 5 ticks. Hopefully you'll be positive (fairly easy) then withdraw IMMEDIATELY.

Don't like people going on a winning streak then think it's still going when it was actually luck and when they chew into their own money; then left with £500 left, they can't withdraw it. Please withdraw a portion of your own money asap!

Phil.

ps. phil, I learned this with the £200 bonus the hard way haha!

 

[tar]

Check these T & C for the new offer ( 20 % match 22/4 ) :

3. The Offer applies to the first deposit you make between 21st April 2009 and 31st May 2009 only. The Offer does not apply to any subsequent deposits. The Free Cash Credit can only be used to offset losses and cannot be withdrawn from your account at anytime. Once the accumulated losses on your account equal or exceed the Free Cash Credit amount, we will deduct the Free Cash Credit from your account. From the date the Free Cash Credit is credited into your account, if at anytime, your account is inactive (meaning no open trades or new trades placed on your account) for a period longer than 2 weeks, we will deduct from your account the surplus Free Cash Credit.
4. If at any time you withdraw, or partially withdraw your initial deposit, we will reduce your Free Cash Credit in proportion to your withdrawal. For example, if you initially deposit £5000 and we credit 20% or £1000 Free Cash Credit, and you subsequently make a withdrawal of £1000, we will reduce the Free Cash Credit on your account by 20% or £200 ))

Is this a joke ?

 

[webinvester]

What you can and cannot do?

Yes, if your in loss you cannot withdraw the bonus. Repeat this again for the newbies:

You CANNOT withdraw the bonus money if your account is showing a loss.

Hence, do the 3 trades on the ftse. Cut each one at +/- 5 ticks. Hopefully you'll be positive (fairly easy) then withdraw IMMEDIATELY.

Don't like people going on a winning streak then think it's still going when it was actually luck and when they chew into their own money; then left with £500 left, they can't withdraw it. Please withdraw a portion of your own money asap!

Phil.

ps. phil, I learned this with the £200 bonus the hard way haha!

My understanding from reading the Ts and Cs is the following:
- You must be an existing customer with an account opened before 21-04-09
- Make a deposit up to £500 (max they will match) before 31-05-09.
- Make at least 3 opening trades of at least £2 each in non equities. Not sure if they count FTSE index as non equity as it is an equity index. I presume that a trade reversal wouldn't count as an opening trade.
- Once you have opened 3 trades (probably closed but not necessarily) you email to request the cash match. This should then be added to your account fund.
- You cannot ever withdraw the matched funds, but should be able to withdraw any of your original deposit plus or minus any profit or loss. You should also be able to withdraw any further profit made from the matched cash.
- You then have to keep the account live otherwise they will withdraw the matched funds. They don't define a period of time for this so theoretically its for as long as you hold an account with them. By live, they define the account as inactive if you don't have an open trade or haven't opened at least 1 trade for a period greater than 2 weeks.
- Interestingly, they state that they will only consider the first deposit made. So if you deposit £100 then £400, they will only match £100, not £400 or £500. However, they don't state that the original deposit has to remain in the account for any length of time.So accordingly, they 'should' match your deposit even if you withdraw the balance (deposit plus or minus PandL) immediately after making the 3 trades.

This is how I read it anyhow.

Webinvester

edit: Hadn't seen the above post. My understanding is clearly wrong in a couple of areas. Didn't have the full Ts and Cs to hand.

 

[webinvester]

Further confusion

- Interestingly, they state that they will only consider the first deposit made. So if you deposit £100 then £400, they will only match £100, not £400 or £500. However, they don't state that the original deposit has to remain in the account for any length of time.So accordingly, they 'should' match your deposit even if you withdraw the balance (deposit plus or minus PandL) immediately after making the 3 trades.

This is how I read it anyhow.

Webinvester

edit: Hadn't seen the above post. My understanding is clearly wrong in a couple of areas. Didn't have the full Ts and Cs to hand.

Now I'm confused. It would appear that they have more than one offer, or they've amended it.

This might explain some of it and would appear to give them a fair degree of latitude to do what they want:
"* VDM Global Markets Ltd is the sole arbiter of the Offer and reserves the right to alter, amend or foreclose the Offer at any time without prior notice. VDM Global Markets Ltd reserves the right to withhold payment of any profits made by a client using this Offer if we believe that the spirit of this Offer is being abused or irregular betting patterns are observed, and in the event of any dispute its decision will be final."

How on earth do they define 'irregular betting patterns' or that the spirit of the offer is being abused. It would seem more that they are not making the offer in the right spirit.

Webinvester

 

[tar]

Now I'm confused. It would appear that they have more than one offer, or they've amended it.

This might explain some of it and would appear to give them a fair degree of latitude to do what they want:
"* VDM Global Markets Ltd is the sole arbiter of the Offer and reserves the right to alter, amend or foreclose the Offer at any time without prior notice. VDM Global Markets Ltd reserves the right to withhold payment of any profits made by a client using this Offer if we believe that the spirit of this Offer is being abused or irregular betting patterns are observed, and in the event of any dispute its decision will be final."

How on earth do they define 'irregular betting patterns' or that the spirit of the offer is being abused. It would seem more that they are not making the offer in the right spirit.

Webinvester

My post was about the 20% match offer ,i guess they have another offers for existing coustomers

 

[KillPhil08]

They have/had;
£200 100% bonus
£500 100% bonus existing customers
£5000 20% bonus new customers
£100 each refer a friend.

 

[Phil Mibbutz]

ps. phil, I learned this with the £200 bonus the hard way haha!

Me too...

Basically, although all the offers have slightly different conditions (presumably because they're gradually realising that giving away money isn't a good idea), I think you have to treat the bonus just as extra margin. Going straight in with a doubled stake could be the way to beat them at their own game. If you get it right.

 

[MikeYass]

I took up the exisiting customer's £500 offer (and the £200 one before!)

As soon as they added the £500 to my account I took out my own £500- they probably didn't appreciate this but they didn't try any funny business. As soon as I had made some profits I withdrew them, so now I am in a risk free position- I have £700 of their money to play with!

Another way to try and get the money out would be, for example Sell GBP/USD on VDM and buy GBP/USD on another account. Wait until you have a loss of £500 on VDM and then close the position. The only downfall with this is that you could end up making a profit on VDM. However, you can always take the profit out and try again.

For anyone that trys this, if you have less than £500, say £300, remember you won't be able to take profits out until you have made >£200, so you could end up losing some of your own cash.

 

[webinvester]

Using the 'free' cash

As soon as they added the £500 to my account I took out my own £500- they probably didn't appreciate this but they didn't try any funny business.

Yet? I assumed that you could do this as their Ts and Cs surprsingly, didn't state you couldn't. However, it might just take them some time to get round to it. Hopefully not.

Another way to try and get the money out would be, for example Sell GBP/USD on VDM and buy GBP/USD on another account. Wait until you have a loss of £500 on VDM and then close the position. The only downfall with this is that you could end up making a profit on VDM. However, you can always take the profit out and try again.

Thanks for this one. I hadn't thought of that option. Because it was described as cash match, rather than loss back, I kind of only thought of it in terms of cash to be withdrawn. I was thinking of doing something similar with another account to build up the funds in VDM and then withdraw the money to put into another account. Your method would effectively achieve the same result but avoid the need to withdraw and deposit.

Webinvester

 

[MikeYass]

Yet? I assumed that you could do this as their Ts and Cs surprsingly, didn't state you couldn't. However, it might just take them some time to get round to it. Hopefully not.


Thanks for this one. I hadn't thought of that option. Because it was described as cash match, rather than loss back, I kind of only thought of it in terms of cash to be withdrawn. I was thinking of doing something similar with another account to build up the funds in VDM and then withdraw the money to put into another account. Your method would effectively achieve the same result but avoid the need to withdraw and deposit.

Webinvester

Ha ha, lets hope they don't get round to it. Their platform does state that withdrawl requests have to physically be checked by their customer services dept so it seems like someone will have checked it over.

You may be slightly confused- it is a cash match rather than a loss back offer. The best way to think of it is more of "pseudo" cash- because you can't actually withdraw it. Also if you have no trading activity on your account for 2 weeks they will take the £500 back. The method I talked about above, creating a loss on VDM and a profit on a different account is a way to convert the pseudo cash into real cash. You will be left with a £500 profit but the loss won't be "real" because, it is effectivly pretend money but can be used to cover losses, or to be used as margin as someone else mentioned.

 

[webinvester]

You may be slightly confused- it is a cash match rather than a loss back offer. The best way to think of it is more of "pseudo" cash- because you can't actually withdraw it. Also if you have no trading activity on your account for 2 weeks they will take the £500 back. The method I talked about above, creating a loss on VDM and a profit on a different account is a way to convert the pseudo cash into real cash. You will be left with a £500 profit but the loss won't be "real" because, it is effectivly pretend money but can be used to cover losses, or to be used as margin as someone else mentioned.

Its OK, I did realise that it was cash match and not loss match. What I meant was that because of that I hadn't thought to use it as loss match.

Shorts and Longs have a loss back offer, so to convert that to cash you would have to make a loss, and a profit on another account.

Because VDM is cash match, I was thinking in terms of losing elsewhere (SandL) and winning on VDM, then withdrawing my deposit as you have done. I hadn't read the Ts and Cs properly so naively, I was also thinking about possibly withdrawing some of the cash match and funding another account.

However, now I know I can't actually withdraw the match element and following your comment, it may well make more sense to try to use it as a 'loss match' with profit elsewhere. This would enable me to 'move' some of it without withdrawing it.:whistling

Ideally, I should end up with 'free' cash across a few accounts. Might be easier to say than do though.

 

[Phil Mibbutz]

As soon as they added the £500 to my account I took out my own £500- they probably didn't appreciate this but they didn't try any funny business. As soon as I had made some profits I withdrew them, so now I am in a risk free position- I have £700 of their money to play with!

I'm surprised they let you get away with that, but I wish I'd thought of it when I was in profit! If you go negative, even by a few pence, the loss has to come out of your money, not theirs. Maybe VDM really haven't thought this through properly?

 

[MikeYass]

I'm surprised they let you get away with that, but I wish I'd thought of it when I was in profit! If you go negative, even by a few pence, the loss has to come out of your money, not theirs. Maybe VDM really haven't thought this through properly?

Yeah, you have to look at the T's and C's of these type of offers very carefully. The number 1 priority always has to be to preserve your own money! They couldn't stop me as it didn't say anything about not being allowed to withdraw money in the T's and C's. Although, technically they reserve the right to do what they want with youir account! Note that in their new offer they have written this clause into the conditions. They were probably annoyed with clients taking them for a ride, risk free to them.

I don't think these type of offers are the best way for companies like VDM to get new business. They should focus on improving their speads instead. I'v also noticed that when I try and close a position I often end up being closed 1 or 2 pips adverse compared to the price I click. I would prefer to be requoted (as long as it only takes a couple of seconds!) and then have the option of accepting or rejecting the requote.