VantagePoint Neural Networks


Junior member
Hi Everyone,
I'm new to the TW2 Forum, and have been reading your posts with great interest - informative and fun, a good combination.

I have been trading for just over a year now, using charts and MA's for trading signals on the FTSE and DOW, doing okay, but not great. I then saw an ad for VantagePoint (hell of a price!!) and wondered if any of you have tried it, or know someone who has?


P.S. VantagePoint says it is 80% accurate at predicting the market direction for the next 2 - 4 days. Covers 25 indecies/currencies/commodities at $2900 for 3 markets of your choice.
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80% accurate over the next 2-4 days kind of screams to me that it is overly curve fitted (or else that they are giving a fairly useless prediction such as "it will be higher" without an assessment of how much and whether it is worth the risk of making a trade on that).

I am all pro-the power of TA, but does anyone really think the market is 80% predictable 2-4 days in advance?

Actually looking at the claim (that it just picks direction) doesn't this come down to exits? i.e. random entry in either direction will generally offer up some points if you exit at the right time. If all they are doing is telling you when to enter it wouldn't necessarily be that great a system. The direction after two days could be very different to the direction after 4 days, letting them claim they were right whichever way they had picked.

I asked VP to demonstrate in a realtime demo how accurate their system is as they were supposed to offer this but they never did. All I got was spammed with email to buy their system which I always replied to saying that I was waiting for them to demonstrate their system accuracy before buying. When I looked into this further I was informed that all they were interested in is selling the system and those selling it are on commission based earnings. Now why is that if they can predict market direction so accurately that they need so badly to sell the system ?

It should also be noted that even with an 80% success rate with predicting market direction you can still quite easily lose a lot of money.

Personally at that price I would steer well clear of this.
All the above is only my opinion on this subject and others may have differing views.

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Hi Steve

Welcome to T2W :)

If I was in your position and had £2000 to spend, I would see if Mr.Charts was running a course, or maybe look at doing Naz's course. Sounds like you just need that extra edge, and I agree with all that trader333 and wysinawyg have said- VP won't give you that.

Thanks All,
I am greatful for your insights and opinions on VantagePoint....
I also read a thread on another board (elite trader) which gave it a general thumbs down due to no pre-purchase trial, or money back guarantee (also the sales people apply alot of pressure, it seems).
Will certainly be thinking again, and look at Mr Charts advice.

Looking for a good (preferably free) chart of the CRB Index, can anyone help? :confused:

Again, thanks.
disa- vantagepoint

i write them a e-mail saying you operate like the market
....greed...... yes your dont even get a free trial...that alone show's they are hiding something... :eek:
Learning to trade successfully is something that can easily be taught in my experience and easily put into effect.
I'm sorry, but those that say it is terribly hard, simply haven't cracked it - unsurprisingly.
As I've said elsewhere don't pay anyone to train you without seeing actual proof that their methods succeed in terms of the broker records of someone they have coached - and never ever pay for a black box system. The vendors would not sell a system that worked but would trade it themselves, wouldn't they?
In all my years of trading and coaching 1-2-1 it never ceases to surprise me that most people waste half their lives searching for the Holy Grail of trading. It doesn't exist. What exist are methods and techniques that will earn you a damn good living and build up your capital week after week, month after month.
Like everything else in life, work, knowledge, application, determination, motivation are what lead to success.
Mr Charts,

I am extremely interested to learn the methods and techniques that will earn me a damn good living and build up my capital week after week, month after month.

How do I obtain particulars?

You can contact me at
[email protected]
and I can send you details and copies of the broker records of someone I've trained.
I will however be away coaching in Seville, Spain from Wednesday.
Several people have emailed me as a result of my last post and one suggested I post an example trade today.
You know who you are and I think you believe I might be talking nonsense ;-))
So, I'm attaching .gifs of a trade I've just done a few minutes ago on UNM. I shorted 5000 at $6.55 at 3.46 pm our time and covered the short at at $6.05 at 4.01 pm for a profit of a nice round $2500 in 15 minutes
I've also attached another .gif showing what happened next - looks as if my exit point was about right ;-)
Obviously I teach people how to find and do trades like that UNM one - there are usually those situations around most days.


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The first was the short entry.
This is when I covered


  • unmcovered short.gif
    unmcovered short.gif
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So, having exited a 15 min trade for +$2500, what happened next?
Looks like a good exit - and not the sort of exit strategy you will ever read about anywhere ;-)))
I've put these trades up because I think people should see real trades, not merely theory.


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I can't see any declaration of algorithms supporting the "forcast MA"
Looks like a black box to me - see software guide - buyers beware.
Having written and used Neural Net software for trading I can say they do work and can produce targets direction and timeframe data for trading however you must realise that the quality of what you get out is based on what you put in during the learning process you realy need a neural net with 250+ neurons to get a decent prediction on indices.

If anyone would like to have a play with a Neural net drop me a line I have some basic NNs that you could have a play with and interface with excel
Hmmmmmmmmm Na!!!

Intermarket Analysis works for the long term... but changes now and then ranging from a year to 10or 20 odd years eg a method called decoupling where once coupled markets tend to "decouple" some time in the future; and i'm taking years. If you read the book "Intermarket Analysis" by Murphy he mentions all this. He also has given positive reference to Vantage Point. But what if once correlated markets starts to "decouple" what then.... all software calculation for the neural network modules in Vantage point would have to change right?! Now THAT'S NOT mentioned..... are they aware of that???!!!!

I have tried VP for a year now... Yes the sales person was pushy and being in the UK wanted me to find other sales for him in the UK..... !!

I, like others, find that there PMA was good, but their predicted H & L was in accurate and useless at times. You are better off using candlestick charting which is effective using metastock with a plugin.... which still doesn't come anywhere near VP price.

I Really want get my money back on this, but it's been a year and i haven't really made any greater amounts of money from it than to just use my own trading ways/rules.... i have just made more money from experience and getting better.... but not from the software!

Anybody know how i can get my money back from these people?
Or does anyone want it from me to test for themselves... maybe i missed something!
Seeing as the last post was more than a decade ago, I'm not sure if this thing is still alive and kicking. I'd like to welcome any previous non-believers to join me in a one-on-one demonstration to see the new UI for VantagePoint and to see exactly how our software forecasts various markets (stocks, futures, forex and etfs) with up to 86% accuracy. We're more than happy to show you any market as long as we forecast for it. Our accuracy is measured each year and we post the results on our website. More than 20,000 traders utilize these forecasts for better timing and direction and we'd love to welcome you on board as well.

Please feel free to reach out with any comments or questions