Best Thread US day traders thread.

[Nastrader]

MOLX was in a Strong Downtrend

Since you guys are back, I'm going to join in the fun! Been having a good time today with MOLX. I'm sure a few of you other guys have been too.

It was floating above the whole number of 32, so I decided just as a test to post a bid for 5 lots on EDGX at the whole number.

I pulled it, and within under a second the price had fallen down without any volume! Computer algorithms taking over?

See the screenshot, and observe the time stamps:

1) Placed bid
2) Pulled bid
3) Down goes price

Mmmm, fun

Note: I wouldn't advise anyone to do this unless they are experienced! Had someone decided to hit all the bids I could have been long 500 in a falling stock if I didn't have a larger short position on.

Hi BP,

MOLX was in a “Very Strong Down Trend.” The Market was also in a downtrend from the morning but was in consolidation from about 11:00 ET thru 13:15.. Also, bottom fishing is one thing during an Oscillating market, but when a stock is in a “Strong Trend” as shown in the attached chart, you are trading against the trend!!! Also, the LVII actually has no meaning in today’s markets. It did back about 15 or 10 years ago, but not today. Its value is only good for checking the spread, T&S speed, and mainly for entry.

Look at the 5-min chart & notice that all 3 ( 5, 10 & 20) EMA’s are in a strong downtrend. It would take a lot to change a price trend that this stock was in. Notice the volume at 13:55 on a 1-min (not attached) & 5 min Chart which caused this stock to change directions.

Note, I am only trying to give you constructive criticism.

See attached 5 min Chart on MOLX.

Sorry for the direct approach, but just trying to help another trader.

Nas

 

[Gadgetman]

Also, the LVII actually has no meaning in today’s markets. It did back about 15 or 10 years ago, but not today. Its value is only good for checking the spread, T&S speed, and mainly for entry.


Nas

Really?
Let the games commence

 

[Nastrader]

Really?
Let the games commence

Sorry, not interested in entering a contest, this is thru many years of experience and seeing the many changes occurring over the last few years.

To clarify LVII today has limited value to see the items which I listed. The MOLX trade shows their limited use, while a chart has much more to reveal than LVII. End of story.

A good example would to use LVII for Listed Stocks (NYSE or DOW), which usually have large gaps in "price levels." LVII's are where the MM's & Specialist play their tricks, fade, and hide their true quantity of shares to sell or buy for all stocks (including NASDAQ).

If you don't agree, that's fine with me, then just let this be IMHO.

Nas

 

[BlackPanther]

Gadgetman: Haha! Don't worry, I will only give my opinion back in a polite way.

Nastrader: No offence taken. However you've extracted a lot of meaning from my post that wasn't intended. I will clarify.

I wasn't trading against the trend. I was short a pretty substantial size at the time and posted this bid as a test having not routed to EDGX before. By "fun" I meant the fact it had been soooo easy to make money from. They don't get much easier than it was.

Indeed, this downtrend continued - I must disagree about L2 being "useless". I feel picked out the bottom *relatively* well I felt by exiting about 12c off the low.. a little slow to react but it was absolutely obvious the main seller had just pulled as the way the order book had been moving changed completely. I am pretty confident in saying had Mr. Charts or dvdh been trading the same stock they'd have got out around the same time or sooner and switched to a long position

But hey, there are many ways to make money and that's the beauty of trading the markets. I'm sure that's one thing you won't disagree with :cheesy:

 

[Gadgetman]

If you don't agree, that's fine with me, then just let this be IMHO.
Nas

Hey NasTrader
I don't agree, and am not personally interested in entering into a competition. It's just that I know there are various other contributors to this board who use Level2, in some cases exclusively, to make a lot of money.

I thought this board was all about stimulating debate. I don't believe you can make such a definitive statement as the one above, then not expect to have contrary arguments from people who actually use the method!

You never know, you might learn something from the people who are succesful with Level 2!
(Second thoughts, they'd probably ask you to pay for the training )

 

[PitBull]

Nastrader

L2 useless today. Don't think so. It depends if you can read/know the tricks they play.

 

[LevII]

Black Panther returns

Gadgetman: Haha! Don't worry, I will only give my opinion back in a polite way.

Nastrader: No offence taken. However you've extracted a lot of meaning from my post that wasn't intended. I will clarify.

I wasn't trading against the trend. I was short a pretty substantial size at the time and posted this bid as a test having not routed to EDGX before. By "fun" I meant the fact it had been soooo easy to make money from. They don't get much easier than it was.

Indeed, this downtrend continued - I must disagree about L2 being "useless". I feel picked out the bottom *relatively* well I felt by exiting about 12c off the low.. a little slow to react but it was absolutely obvious the main seller had just pulled as the way the order book had been moving changed completely. I am pretty confident in saying had Mr. Charts or dvdh been trading the same stock they'd have got out around the same time or sooner and switched to a long position

But hey, there are many ways to make money and that's the beauty of trading the markets. I'm sure that's one thing you won't disagree with :cheesy:

BP,

What a delight to see you return. I wonder whether you would like to respond the http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showpost.php?p=260478&postcount=25

Regards

LII

 

[Nastrader]

It was floating above the whole number of 32, so I decided just as a test to post a bid for 5 lots on EDGX at the whole number.

I pulled it, and within under a second the price had fallen down without any volume! Computer algorithms taking over?
However you've extracted a lot of meaning from my post that wasn't intended. I will clarify.

I wasn't trading against the trend. I was short a pretty substantial size at the time and posted this bid as a test having not routed to EDGX before. By "fun" I meant the fact it had been soooo easy to make money from. They don't get much easier than it was.

Indeed, this downtrend continued - I must disagree about L2 being "useless". I feel picked out the bottom *relatively* well I felt by exiting about 12c off the low.. a little slow to react but it was absolutely obvious the main seller had just pulled as the way the order book had been moving changed completely. I am pretty confident in saying had Mr. Charts or dvdh been trading the same stock they'd have got out around the same time or sooner and switched to a long position.

Hi BlackPanther,

Again, what caught my eye in your post was the entry (test bid), after i checked MOLX's chart. Then the “Chart of the Market & Stocks direction at 13:03 ET” were in a continuous downtrend. Since you stated that you placed a "test Bid.” Sorry if I misunderstood your statement. For one thing, any long entry at 13:03 was way too early in the direction of the Market, and then MOLX. Just trying to help. See the attached 1-min Chart.

I did a Google search, and did find EDGX listed as an ECN, at directedge.com. I mainly did this search to see who/what EDGX, since I never heard of it or seen it previously. So now I know. But for quick entries on the bid side, I’ve found that it’s always best to use either ACRA or INET who have large & deep order books. A smaller ECN like EDGX wouldn’t have larger order flow for matching bids/offers, & would be especially difficult to exit a trade without larger slippage - imo.

As for MOLX:
· For one thing volume was light during lunchtime.
· I personally use a trading rule to trade only stocks which have an ATR(14) of 1.5 Mil. Shs/day, which MOLX did. But my 2nd rule requires a stock to have a minimum volume on a 1-min. chart of 10K/Min or 20K is even better, which MOLX didn’t have.
· Algorithms probably were a matter in prices falling during your attempted trade, where I’ve experienced after I placed a bid w/ECN (during low volume periods such as during AH’s earnings), another ECN would pop & out bid me by 1 cent. Thus one of many MM’s & Specialist’s tricks played w/LVII. I’m also sure that this would work in the opposite direction. When an ECN cancels a bid & they have their algorithm locked on a higher bid with no intention of going long except for a possible sacrificial 100 shs, they cancel as well. I’m sure this is probably what occurred. Especially, if they were on the other side waiting to sell MOLX to you, which in this case it seems as they were (all bids above your's where either INET or ARCA
· For another, since MOLX was in a strong downtrend, many MM’s were just placing fading bids, since the easiest thing is to cancel a bid, and then prices will fall like a rock. If you notice in your LVII screenshot, all of the bids above yours were either INET or ARCA.

To clarify when I first replied to your post, I did happen to use the wrong words when I said, “LVII’s are useless” since I was more concerned about an entry @ LOD (at 13:03 ET), but I should have used “LVII has limited usefulness in today’s market.” Mainly due to the tricks that MM’s use and since they also use ECN’s now where they didn’t years ago) in LVII. Therefore due to MM’s & Hedge-funds (they can hide all of their trades as well), I find more useful information in charts rather than in LVII’s, but again it may be due to a trader’s trading style, which I’d say each to their own.

Nas

 

[Nastrader]

Really?
Let the games commence

Hi Gadgetman & PitBull,

Dave I just didn’t appreciate your post; “let the games commence.” I spend a lot of time in trying to help others, and I do understand that there may be disagreements between traders’ viewpoints. My reply to BP was the more important tool in trading to me which are the Market & Stock Charts, LVII is just on a lower echelon of importance to my style of trading. You took my post out of context. Any trader who would try to make a point, as I did, to help another with more than a few sentences could easily be taken out of context.

I would normally have no problems in a constructive discussion. Also I’m new to this thread, and may not understand your style of trading. There are over 1,900 posts on this thread, and no way would I even attempt to read them all.

I’ve revised my statement about “LVII being useless” to “LVII has limited usefulness in today’s market.” See my recent reply to BlackPanther in post # 1988.

Hope this clarifies my first post’s intent.

Regards,

Nas

 

[Bez]

Even I kept half an eye on the L2 window with aapl's $80 break out trap play.....

Should also mention NVDA going into its 61.8 and they all lined up on the ask @ 33.60

 

[curt sawyer]

Goog

Thats great Salty, thanks for your take on things.

Rather than daytrading GOOG,I'd hold it with new predictions 2 days ago by "Mad Money "trader Jim Cramer that it will go to $750. He was one of the first to pick it to go to $500.
Greetings from $unny California.

 

[Bez]

More for the Swinger's this 60min chart of AAPL..

One more pop into Christmas, to complete the 5 waves..?

 

[Hittfeld]

Well the short answer is I' ve traded Forex full time for four months and have made a loss. I've had to bite the bullet and take a job.

Several years ago I did take the Mr Charts course and on the day paper traded over £1000 profits. At the time I had a secure job etc and with family committments decided to continue working. Having been made redundant I gave trading a go, but with Forex. My interest with Forex had always been mechanical and some systems worked great for 18 months then stopped working. One system doubled my money in 4 weeks, then stopped dead despite a years backtesting showing how good it could be!

I now think Forex is saturated, everyones there and the market dynamics have changed. I now agree with Mr Charts that stock trading is the easiest and the one most likely to make you suceed.

JonnyT

Wise words by JonnyT, whom I very much admired, from 2 years ago. But whats the opinion about forex vs. stocks vs. indices now?

Thanks for yur opinion

Hittfeld

 

[options]

Much the same.

Forex has become saturated with new people. (Any wonder with all these new guru's and courses, e books and whatever else is out there).
Would that be enough to change the market dynamics.

I don't think so.
some fx pairs have been a lot more choppy of late but that is because they are moving sideways at the moment.

UK shares still move slowly (Most of the time), so are not a lot of good for the day trader. (In my opinion). If you can find the right US stocks they can provide a living, on a daily basis and the indices still do.
Even if it means scalping the ftse 100 for 5 points here and there.

A few years ago I only traded the fx; when that started to behave less favourable to how I was comfortable with, I switched back to indices, and very recently good ole usa shares

You used to only need one market to make a living, but I think it is important now, not to compartmentalize (?) and just be a forex trader. You have to go where the money is and trade there.

Finding where the money is though is harder said than done.
And adapting to different charts/markets. I treat them all the same. They either move or they don't.

I honestly think there are only 2 types.
Those that move (trending) and those that move sideways (Rangebound).
No difference between an fx chart or an index chart. They all put bars or candles or lines on that chart in front of you. They all work around support and resistance and fib numbers. In fact any line on a chart will look like that market is working around it.
As for the little foibles of a particular share that people used to talk about or getting to know the instrument's movements. Well, that doesn't apply any more. (If it ever did in the first place).

I think one of the lines in my signature below says it all.

 

[Mr. Charts]

I still day trade US shares and for me it's a consistent way of making a living.
One of the great advantages is that my set ups and triggers have continued to work very well over the years. You do need to adapt and evolve with the market to a minor extent, but basic market behaviour remains the same.
Whereas with indices and FX you can be caught in a range, with US stocks you can usually find trending stocks and certain other reliable patterns every day.
As I said, it works for me extremely well, but horses for courses. It doesn't matter what you trade as long as it's reliable and profitable.
I've traded UK and US shares options and futures as well as FX, but personally US stocks are right for me.
Richard

 

[Naz]

US stocks and indices are the place for day trading. We lead and the world follows.

Take today I've got great entry on the S&P at almost exactly the low of the day. Just a simple gap play on the Spyders. At the same time I hit all the swing trading stocks on the UK that I had been tracking and waiting for an entry. I've put that gap trade in the blog on my web site.

If i'm busy I just jump on the index but when I'm watching carefully it's the stocks. You can time your day and swing trading by following the futures to get your timing right.

 

[Ciao]

Hello
Please to have found this thread (I haven’t read all yet… English not been my first language it take me long time to digest what I read)
Although I have been registered for a year this is my first post and hope it will not be the last…
Good luck all

 

[Naz]

Hi Ciao good to have you here.

I have taken a gentle day trade today and run it all day. Different styles of day trading exist and this one today was nice and gentle. Chart posted in the blog on my web site.

All my swing trades that I bought by following the US market should be up tommorow in the UK. As long as Asia doesn't collpase over night!

Nice when a plan hopefully comes to frution.

 

[Ciao]

Hi Ciao good to have you here.

I have taken a gentle day trade today and run it all day. Different styles of day trading exist and this one today was nice and gentle. Chart posted in the blog on my web site.

All my swing trades that I bought by following the US market should be up tommorow in the UK. As long as Asia doesn't collpase over night!

Nice when a plan hopefully comes to frution.

thanks Naz
same here today I took it easy..... just scalped TDLP + MPG then just watched (I don't trade because I have to but only if I see a good opportunity and have a clear mind (psychology right)

read some of your very interesting posts... you are a professional trader... I am well far away from that
I do trade in UK as well but more as a long hold there at the mo I got IFL + PXS today sold GKP
for my method I prefer the USA one (so I am free all day as well) I found more volatile and plenty there that goes up .....

take care

 

[Naz]

Hi Ciao

Yes I trade for a living. Of course I trade different markets and styles but the thing I really enjoy is day trading the US market. I was trained on it for my sins by some top direct access day traders in the companies I traded with. One in Las Vegas and two from New York thanks guys! and I've never looked back. I've been day trading full time for ten years.

I got into the swing trading heavily years ago after two brilliant full time swing traders wanted to learn some day trading skills from me to get their timing right for their swing trades. So after being with them I thought great I'll do the same.

Alan