Ukraine invasion

[timsk]

Your whataboutism isn't a very strong argument. Do two wrongs make a right?

😆 Too funny R_L,
I understand and accept that one (me included) wants to think we in the west are the good guys and it's that nasty evil Putin and the Russians who are the bad guys. I used to think that once and, when the penny finally drops that 'we' are every bit as bad - if not worse - than the supposed bad guy(s) - it's a bitter pill to swallow. However, swallow it we must, because burying our heads in the sand and ignoring the failings, shortcomings and sheer criminality of one's own government and projecting all the bad shit onto someone else isn't the answer. It really isn't. Sooner or later, we have to accept that our own governments are run - to a greater or lesser extent - by corrupt politicians who care not one jot about the people who elected them and whom they're supposed to serve. They worship money and retaining power at any cost - even if that involves fighting utterly spurious and pointless wars against imaginary foes who pose zero threat to our national security.

You've been on here long enough R_L for the penny to have dropped; in your heart of heats you surely understand what's really going on - you're just not ready to accept it. Yet. So, here's your New Year challenge: it's time to embrace reality and the uncomfortable truth. It's time to swallow the (red) pill!

 

[Atilla]

Your whataboutism isn't a very strong argument. Do two wrongs make a right?
View attachment 345259

Dear Rufus,

Much like you I used to believe all the BS US dished out. I used to argue with my sociology teachers at secondary school as I thought they were commies. I believed in all that Rambo shit about the US protecting us from communism and all that tosh.

You know Ho Chi Minh actually thought the US would side with Vietnam against the French because the US had a similar experience trying to gain independence from England.

He wanted to become a US allie and help Vietnam gain freedom from the French.

The French went to US and played the communism card and totally blind sided the Yanks.

US could have had a much different experience with Vietnam and subsequent influence with the now Asian tigers. What they may have told you and the lies perpertrated are really shocking.

I've only started seeing the US for who they are after the twin tower strikes and attrocities subsequently conducted in Afghanistan and Iraq. Now looking back reading and learning, giving time for how the other parties tell the same story, I've come to realise just how misled and misguided I have been.

I say this to you sincerely. If you open your heart and conscience the stuff that is done in our name is quite shocking and we should call it out for what it is.
It is not about being right or wrong. It is simply humanity and doing what is right thing for the sake of humanity so we all live in harmoney on this beautiful world of ours.

👍 🙂

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

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[Rufus_Leakey]

😆 Too funny R_L,
I understand and accept that one (me included) wants to think we in the west are the good guys and it's that nasty evil Putin and the Russians who are the bad guys. I used to think that once and, when the penny finally drops that 'we' are every bit as bad - if not worse - than the supposed bad guy(s) - it's a bitter pill to swallow. However, swallow it we must, because burying our heads in the sand and ignoring the failings, shortcomings and sheer criminality of one's own government and projecting all the bad shit onto someone else isn't the answer. It really isn't. Sooner or later, we have to accept that our own governments are run - to a greater or lesser extent - by corrupt politicians who care not one jot about the people who elected them and whom they're supposed to serve. They worship money and retaining power at any cost - even if that involves fighting utterly spurious and pointless wars against imaginary foes who pose zero threat to our national security.

You've been on here long enough R_L for the penny to have dropped; in your heart of heats you surely understand what's really going on - you're just not ready to accept it. Yet. So, here's your New Year challenge: it's time to embrace reality and the uncomfortable truth. It's time to swallow the (red) pill!

Dear Rufus,

Much like you I used to believe all the BS US dished out. I used to argue with my sociology teachers at secondary school as I thought they were commies. I believed in all that Rambo shit about the US protecting us from communism and all that tosh.

You know Ho Chi Minh actually thought the US would side with Vietnam against the French because the US had a similar experience trying to gain independence from England.

He wanted to become a US allie and help Vietnam gain freedom from the French.

The French went to US and played the communism card and totally blind sided the Yanks.

US could have had a much different experience with Vietnam and subsequent influence with the now Asian tigers. What they may have told you and the lies perpertrated are really shocking.

I've only started seeing the US for who they are after the twin tower strikes and attrocities subsequently conducted in Afghanistan and Iraq. Now looking back reading and learning, giving time for how the other parties tell the same story, I've come to realise just how misled and misguided I have been.

I say this to you sincerely. If you open your heart and conscience the stuff that is done in our name is quite shocking and we should call it out for what it is.
It is not about being right or wrong. It is simply humanity and doing what is right thing for the sake of humanity so we all live in harmoney on this beautiful world of ours.

👍 🙂

What's really going on is Russia started a war, constantly threatens its neighbors, and violates its neighbors' airspace. But Russia doesn't seem to care how many Russian, Ukrainian, North Korean, etc. lives are lost. If they did, the war would have ended long ago.

European leaders are slowly waking up to the threat.

Why Are So Many Leaders Warning Of War With Russia?

The head of NATO, the German Defense Minister, the Danish intelligence service, and others have warned in 2025 that direct war with Russia may be just a few short years away. Should we be scared – or skeptical? Experts are deeply divided.

www.rferl.org

Surely, you can understand why they don't want their countries to surrender to Russia.

What the other side did in other areas (e.g., Vietnam 50+ years ago or using nuclear weapons 80 years ago to yes, save lives ) might have been bad and unjustified but is irrelevant to what is happening now in Ukraine. Whataboutism is still a poor argument.

 

[timsk]

Hi R_L,

What's really going on is Russia started a war, constantly threatens its neighbors, and violates its neighbors' airspace. But Russia doesn't seem to care how many Russian, Ukrainian, North Korean, etc. lives are lost. If they did, the war would have ended long ago.

When did Russia start the war: 24th February 2022?
Wrong! This is why I gave up trying to have a sensible debate with you and the CVs and stopped posting to the thread. Because, every time those of us on the right side of history presented you with unassailable evidence that proved you wrong, you simply screwed up your eyes, put your fingers in your ears and ignored it. You know full well that Russia did not start the war, just as you know full well when and why it actually started following the CIA backed maidan coup of 2014.

European leaders are slowly waking up to the threat.

Why Are So Many Leaders Warning Of War With Russia?

The head of NATO, the German Defense Minister, the Danish intelligence service, and others have warned in 2025 that direct war with Russia may be just a few short years away. Should we be scared – or skeptical? Experts are deeply divided.

www.rferl.org

Surely, you can understand why they don't want their countries to surrender to Russia.

What threat: please tell me the threat that Putin and Russia pose to At' and me living in the U.K. and to Histo' living in Germany (at least, I think he's in Germany)? Starmer, my Prime Minister, sadly, is a far greater threat to my life, liberty, security and well being than Putin is. I'm deadly serious when I say I'm much more afraid of him and what he might do than I am of Putin. The sooner he, Macron and Merz et al are gone - the safer everyone in Europe will be.

What the other side did in other areas (e.g., Vietnam 50+ years ago or using nuclear weapons 80 years ago to yes, save lives ) might have been bad and unjustified but is irrelevant to what is happening now in Ukraine. Whataboutism is still a poor argument.

If 'whataboutism' was the only argument - then I'd agree with you. However, it's not. And it's entirely relevant here, because you are the one making out that Putin and Russia are a major threat to Europe, while completely ignoring the insane actions of your own President who's killing people all over the place. It's not Putin who's put a naval blockade around Venezuela, blowing up boats and launching missiles into Nigeria - it's Trump. So, explain to us how these two countries pose a threat to your life, liberty, security and well being living wherever you are in the U.S. and why these acts of war are necessary to protect you?

What will it take R_L for you to wake up and accept that it's us in the west - and you especially in the U.S. - who are the bad guys?
Tim.

 

[timsk]

R_L,
Please read, mark, learn and inwardly digest every single syllable of this open letter from Prof. Jeffrey Sachs to Germany's Chancellor Merz. How anyone can disagree with the sentiments expressed and believe that the current path of escalation towards a direct hot war with Russia (that European leaders appear intent on) is a preferable course of action is quite beyond me. Enjoy . . .

Jeffrey Sachs – An Open Letter to Chancellor Friedrich Merz: Security Is Indivisible – and History Matters​

 

[timsk]

To put flesh on the bones of the letter (linked in my post above), here's an interview with Prof. Jeffrey Sachs by Prof. Glen Diesen. Enjoy . . .