Ukraine invasion

[timsk]

This is why Russia is making little to no progress.
So no, Russia is not winning anything and ultimately will fail.

c_v,
Russia has captured 20% of Ukraine - roughly the size of England in little over 100 days. Yet, according to you, that's "making little to no progress". The problem you have is that you're so entrenched in your views and so unwilling to accept anything other than what you want to believe and want to happen - that you'll still claim Russia is losing / has lost the war when the entire map of Ukraine turns red. We, on this side of the debate, aren't wedded to any position besides bringing the war to a close asap to prevent further destruction and loss of life on all sides. That benefits everyone involved, apart from politicians and the EU (who you normally loathe), the progressive liberal elites (who you normally loathe), MSM (who you normally loathe) and the military industrial complex. So, even after 70 pages of this thread, quite why you take the position you do is still a mystery to me. But, perhaps that's because I never realised it mattered which sock goes on which foot! ;-)
Tim.

 

[counter_violent]

c_v,
Russia has captured 20% of Ukraine - roughly the size of England in little over 100 days. Yet, according to you, that's "making little to no progress". The problem you have is that you're so entrenched in your views and so unwilling to accept anything other than what you want to believe and want to happen - that you'll still claim Russia is losing / has lost the war when the entire map of Ukraine turns red. We, on this side of the debate, aren't wedded to any position besides bringing the war to a close asap to prevent further destruction and loss of life on all sides. That benefits everyone involved, apart from politicians and the EU (who you normally loathe), the progressive liberal elites (who you normally loathe), MSM (who you normally loathe) and the military industrial complex. So, even after 70 pages of this thread, quite why you take the position you do is still a mystery to me. But, perhaps that's because I never realised it mattered which sock goes on which foot! ;-)
Tim.

Ukraine is mostly countryside.
So the Russians have captured mostly countryside.

Some military achievement that is

On the other hand, the cost to Russia is open ended and ongoing.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

entrenched in your views and so unwilling to accept anything other than what you want to believe and want to happen

I could say the same for you.
Russia was controlling 10% before the war, the other 10% was acheived in the frst month, mainly in the south.
Their progress in the last month is lower than 2%.
We are lucky that we found Ukranians willing to fight, it is a opportunity to stop a dictator.
Appeasing him hasn't worked.
A ceasefire tomorrow would be better for everyone in the short term, defeating Putin will be better for everyone looking for the next 5-10 years.
Defeating Putin is a necessary step to restore democracy in Russia.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

We are lucky that we found Ukranians willing to fight, it is a opportunity to stop a dictator.
Appeasing him hasn't worked.
A ceasefire tomorrow would be better for everyone in the short term, defeating Putin will be better for everyone looking for the next 5-10 years.
Defeating Putin is a necessary step to restore democracy in Russia.

Can't agree with that.

Defeating Putin means the Nazis have won with all consequences, also in other countries.

Restore democrcy in Ukraine means to denazify the country first.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

As you know I think Kharkiv and Odessa will never be captured.

How many dead Ukranians does that take?

 

[CavaliereVerde]

Yes the world is threatened by ukranian nazis, luckly Putin will save us from them.

 

[timsk]

I could say the same for you.

No CV, you can't.
Let me repeat (and I'm sorely tempted to shout in capitals - but I won't) . . .
I accept the facts on the ground - whatever they may be - and I don't want to believe anything and I don't want anything to happen other than for the war to stop which is in everyone's best interests and non-partisan. You absolutely have to take this point on board and accept it completely so you can view my/our posts with an open mind and free yourself of the grossly mistaken and completely false view that I/we are on Putin's side and want him to win. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Tim.

 

[counter_violent]

Can't agree with that.

Defeating Putin means the Nazis have won with all consequences, also in other countries.

Restore democrcy in Ukraine means to denazify the country first.

As was said previously.

Every country has a few Nazi's.

Russia has a lot more than most, and the biggest one happens to be their dictator leader.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

What is the main problem of Ukraine (besides war)? Corruption
What is the main problem of Russia? Corruption

 

[counter_violent]

What is the main problem of Ukraine (besides war)? Corruption
What is the main problem of Russia? Corruption

Why was Zelensky elected by a landslide. Because he vowed to fight corruption.
Why was Putin elected installed. Because he was pissed off that the Soviet Union collapsed and he didn't want the peasants making money.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

Again:
How many dead Ukranians do you take into account until you start thinking that the war is senseless for Ukraine?

"Our clients, for example, are victims of physical and psychological shock. These are civilians with little experience and almost no training whom the military command has sent to be slaughtered"

Ukrainian army deserters complain to France’s Le Figaro about poor service conditions

As the paper specified, 23 out of 30 team members who survived refused to return to the frontlines

tass.com

 

[CavaliereVerde]

How many dead Ukranians do you take into account until you start thinking that the war is senseless for Ukraine?

Defending your country makes pretty much sense.
Putin started the sensless war, he will decide when to end it.
Let's wait and see if he will end it as winner or loser.
How many russians have to die before Putin withdraws from Ukraine?

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

Defending your country makes pretty much sense.
How many russians have to die before Putin withdraws from Ukraine?

Russia has other goals to end the war:

Special operation to end when its goals are achieved​

And it looks like that corrupt Ukrainians are selling the U.S. stuff before it is destroyed:
Konstantin Gavrilov also pointed out that the darknet is now abuzz with offers of selling those Javelins that Ukraine had received from the US

Photos: Ukrainians Are Selling US Heavy Duty Arms On The Black Market - Can Take Out A Tank/Helicopter, Discount Sale Price 30K - USA SUPREME

Russia is being hit hard by Ukraine‘s Javelin anti-tank missiles. What makes this weapon so powerful? The U.S.-made FGM-148 Javelin

www.usasupreme.com

 

[timsk]

The article linked below is written by Brian Berletic of 'The New Atlas' YouTube channel. (See Histo's post #1,404, above.)
America’s “Game-Changing” HIMARS: The Rest of the Story
". . . In the days, weeks, and months ahead this decision [to send HIMARS to Ukraine] will undoubtedly reap profits for American arms manufacturers, while only further fuelling conflict in Ukraine, and doing so at the cost of not only the Ukrainian people but also the American taxpayers."
That's the bottom line: that's the sad and depressing truth of the situation.
Tim.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

U.S. bars Cuba, Venezuela from Americas summit; Mexican leader sits out

The White House excluded Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua from the U.S.-hosted Summit of the Americas this week, prompting Mexico's president to make good on a threat to skip the event.

www.reuters.com

A final note for the Russians, on that Russia response question. “Don’t worry Vladimir. Just keep denazifying Ukraine, America is self destructing on her own.”

 

[timsk]

How many russians have to die before Putin withdraws from Ukraine?

CV,
As I pushed you for an answer to this question vis a vis Zelensky and Ukraine - I'll answer it vis a vis Putin and Russia.

My best guess is that for Putin it's not so much a matter of the number of lives lost per se - but the consequences of lives lost. That is to say, if the number that the Russians admit to becomes too high with little or no corresponding net gain - then this will undermine his presidency and pressure on him will start to mount. However, if he's achieving his goals, then the 'price' paid in terms of lives lost can be sold as a price worth paying to his domestic audience. So, it's a question of balance. At the moment, (in spite of your and c_v's protestations to the contrary), the number of lives lost is within acceptable bounds and Russians believe their objectives are being reached.

What are 'acceptable bounds'? Time for a trading analogy: think of price trending up in, say, a Keltner Channel. When it gets to either the upper or lower band, this may trigger action either to take profit or to exit the trade. However, while price remains in the channel and continues to trend upwards, the trade can continue indefinitely. This, I suspect, is how Putin will look at it and not care particularly about total death count. Doubtless, he'll be mindful of Stalin's famous quote: “A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths are a statistic”.
Tim.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

About 600 conscripts involved in operation in Ukraine were recalled to Russia​

That's the way Russia handles it - you'll never read anything like that about Ukrainian soldiers being "trained" between 4 hours and 1 1/2 days with a maximum of 30 rounds.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

... and the clown made my day:

Zelensky imposed personal sanctions against Putin and top Russian officials - Ukraine Today .org

The restrictions will remain in effect indefinitely. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has imposed personal sanctions on Russian President Vladimir Putin. Under the restrictions, in addition to the Russian leader, 34 more people fell, including Dmitry Peskov, Mikhail Mishustin and Sergei...

ukrainetoday.org

Who is affected by this in reality? 🤣

 

[CavaliereVerde]

That's the way Russia handles it - you'll never read anything like that about Ukrainian soldiers being "trained" between 4 hours and 1 1/2 days with a maximum of 30 rounds.

I am not so surprised, this is consistent with the concept of militia for territorial defence, appropriate for the first weeks of the invasion.
I dont' think they are sending militia on the frontline today.

BTW you will never have a realistic picture from TASS.
I admit we are full of pro Ukraine propaganda where every ukranian is a honest hero but how can you trust russian information NOW?
They declared they were not going to invade for months, and than they invaded, after this huge lie they lost every bit of credibility.