U.S. Shutdown, no agreement

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Well, if it's not obvious to you then I suggest you spend the next year or so going through all the economic related legislation, policy, initiatives etc taken by their Government over the last couple of hundred years to find out.

Alternatively, you might prove to me how they have been anti-capitalist.

I never said they were anti-capitalist. You are the one who thinks it is Government legislation and initiatives that creates entrepreneurs. I say the free-market doesn't need rules and regulations to make it work, just like nature and evolution doesn't need human interference to work. Governments can only choose to tax an industry or subsidise another depending on what they think will win them votes. Just like this current Governments moronic plan to subsidise housing with their 'help to buy' scheme, or, more aptly named, 'help to buy votes' scheme. The Government knows buying people houses is a good vote winner...yet it must be paid for with money taxed from someone else.

Whatever money the Government uses must be taken from someone else, either directly through taxes or indirectly through inflation. Either way it is the Government getting involved in the allocation of societies scarce and valuable resources for POLITICAL motives.


I didn't say that our economy was better now than in the 60's. What I did say was that peoples' material well-being is better today than it was then. Or are you going to ask for a long list of things to prove that too :)

Like so many others, you confuse human ingenuity and natural entrepreneurial drive with Government. I suppose you would argue that it was benevolent Government legislation that led to the invention of the wheel!
 
.............. I say the free-market doesn't need rules and regulations to make it work.............

Agreed. I've never suggested otherwise have I? Likewise I have never suggested that it is Government that creates entrepeneurs.

All I have said is that Government have played their part in maintaining an environment in which those entrepeneurs may thrive and in oiling the wheels a bit to help them do so.

Government has a wider interest, of course, and must provide the checks and balances - the "unacceptable face of capitalism" and all that - in that wider interest.
 
So, Obama goes on telly to address the nation. 1hr of absolutely nothing, stock markets paused a while, then continued the sell off. He talked about a minority trying to hold the country to ransom. From where I stand, they are trying to hold the govt to acct.
He must try harder me thinks!:LOL:

It's all still finger pointing.

Effectively both sides have painted each other into a corner making any concessions looking like a "loss" or "backing down".

The fault sits squarely with the man in charge. I think both sides are idiots but ultimately it is up to the president to get people together and forge a solution.

Going on TV and saying "it's their fault and I'm not backing down" is just going to see the other side dig their heels in?

What comes after one side 'wins'? They do a skip around singing "na na ne na naaa".

W anchors the lot of them.
 
No. For a start, "goods & services inflation" doesn't even make sense.
I was quoting from one of the many ‘sound money’ websites. It does make sense if you consider a demand-supply situation where prices increase due to shortage of required materials and products (& services). This can occur without any new money being introduced into the system.

Inflation is an increase in the money supply
It can be one cause of inflation, yes, but it’s obviously not the only one.

You will only get rising prices if the supply in money increases at a rate faster than the rate certain goods and services can be produced. This is why food and energy prices rise long before consumer electronics, for example.
I have read this several times and am still at a loss to understand the logic. I’m sure it’s me that’s missing the point rather than you failing to make it, but which ‘certain’ goods are pivotal in determining whether increasing the money supply causes inflation? Most technologically based industries (consumer electronics in your example) employ JIT to the Nth degree and are just, if not more susceptible to fluctuating demand and costs than agricultural of fuels industries.



Yes, like most left wing economists you want to show a pretty Government created chart. The US was founded long before 1971 and in fact, the greatest period of economic growth in USA's history was while it was on a classic gold standard, not the gold exchange standard.
I’m neither left wing nor an economist and don’t understand why you’ve chosen to use this term in a way that I consider to be pejorative. Can you provide data prior to 1912 – which is what I was looking at when I made that statement – that support your view?

As for Gold Standard and Gold Exchange Standard – they both set the price in dollar per weight of Gold. The only difference between them as far as I can tell being who is permitted to hold stocks of the physical metal. You presumably believe the difference is far more significant. In what way(s)?
 
I was quoting from one of the many ‘sound money’ websites. It does make sense if you consider a demand-supply situation where prices increase due to shortage of required materials and products (& services). This can occur without any new money being introduced into the system.

Yes, but the term 'Inflation' has been altered over time. The original meaning for inflation is the expansion of money and credit. Today people use it to mean changes in the CPI, RPI or General prices.

It can be one cause of inflation, yes, but it’s obviously not the only one.

Let me reiterate, increasing the supply of money doesn't cause inflation, it is inflation. The consequence is rising prices. Modern economists have altered the meaning over time to mean Government calculated CPI numbers.

I have read this several times and am still at a loss to understand the logic. I’m sure it’s me that’s missing the point rather than you failing to make it, but which ‘certain’ goods are pivotal in determining whether increasing the money supply causes inflation?

It depends generally on who gets the new money first, but usually it is the Government. So, if the Government embarks on a new public works programme, like building a dam or a railway or super highway...or help to buy, the Government gets the new money which it then uses to bid up scarce resources, like cement, steel, labour etc. It takes longer to mine and refine a ton of steel than it does for a Central Bank to create £1 billion out of thin air. This is a very abbreviated example but I'm sure you get the gist.

Most technologically based industries (consumer electronics in your example) employ JIT to the Nth degree and are just, if not more susceptible to fluctuating demand and costs than agricultural of fuels industries.

Advances in computer technology and manufacturing techniques have evolved faster than new oil discoveries have been made. Again, an abbreviated example but I'm sure you get the gist. None of these advances and discoveries have been able to outpace the rate at which new money has been created by Government Central Banks.


I’m neither left wing nor an economist and don’t understand why you’ve chosen to use this term in a way that I consider to be pejorative. Can you provide data prior to 1912 – which is what I was looking at when I made that statement – that support your view?

I didn't mean to offend you, but it's usually left wing economists that use Government data to try and prove their point about how wonderful Government is.

As for Gold Standard and Gold Exchange Standard – they both set the price in dollar per weight of Gold. The only difference between them as far as I can tell being who is permitted to hold stocks of the physical metal. You presumably believe the difference is far more significant. In what way(s)?

No, a true precious metal standard defined the 'value' of a dollar by a specific weight of gold and silver.

Coinage act of 1792:

Dollars or Units DOLLARS OR UNITS--each to be of the value of

a Spanish milled dollar as the same is now

current, and to contain three hundred and

seventy-one grains and four sixteenth parts

of a grain of pure, or four hundred and

sixteen grains of standard silver.


This meant that the average person could transact using the metal by way of actual gold and silver coins. A gold exchange standard is different in that the average person had to use Government issued legal tender and only Central Banks could redeem them for gold. Holding real gold means you are protected from inflation, the Government would have to confiscate the coins (Like Roosevelt did in 1933 with Executive Order 6102 ) and melt them down to debase them. The Government doesn't need to do that with a gold exchange standard.
 
An intelligent and interesting explanation. I'm not convinced the definition of inflation as you see it is quite so clear cut and simple as there appear to be numerous definitions of it and as many potential causes & effects, each vying for academic, and popular, foothold. If it isn't definitively sorted after all this time it suggests, as you imply, that either there has been some changes to what 'they' want it to mean or that the concept is too difficult to adequately context within the current complexities of global econometrics.

I appreciate you would be keen to 'get back' to a more honest form of money and establish a sounder global financial footing: But, how to get from here to there even if it were desirable? Almost impossible. Global financial Armageddon would actually provide an ideal platform from which to reset, but I have a feeling, even from that starting point, the current status quo would quickly reestablish itself.
 
All of these companies have more cash right now than the US government

Here's an interesting stat. With the debt ceiling looming, there are currently 9 companies in the S&P 500 that have more cash than the US government. Of course, last time I checked, Uncle Sam owned about 186 million shares of Government Motors, so maybe part GM's $27.02 billion should be added to the US total.

broh.png


source: http://qz.com/134093/all-of-these-companies-have-more-cash-right-now-than-the-us-government/
 
The whole world really can't be held to ransom by 2 turkey cocks in Washington.
There should be a " road map " to resolution of the problem before it plunges the world into economic chaos. For instance:-
1. xxxx days to reach a compromise or failing that
2. It is decided by the toss of a coin or failing that
3. pistols at dawn
 
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There should be a " road map " to resolution of the problem before it plunges the world into economic chaos. For instance:-
1. xxxx days to reach a compromise or failing that
2. It is decided by the toss of a coin or failing that
3. pistols at dawn

Penalty shootout (y)
 
If you happen to be going to the USA, does this mean public loos are closed ?
You may well laugh but for the over 60s this can be an embarrassing development.

Perhaps there are no public loos anyway ?

The youngsters don't realize that this is a major route planning factor that must be taken into consideration for the older generation.
 
World Bank head Jim Yong Kim warns US is ‘five days away from a very dangerous moment

Jim Yong Kim has warned the United States they're just 'days away' from causing a global economic disaster unless politicians come up with a plan to raise the nation's debt limit and avoid default. 'We're now five days away from a very dangerous moment. I urge U.S. policymakers to quickly come to a resolution before they reach the debt ceiling deadline. Inaction could result in interest rates rising, confidence falling and growth slowing. If this comes to pass, it could be a disastrous event for the developing world, and that will in turn greatly hurt developed economies as well." Meanwhile the Chinese have lost very little time in making their opinion known, one of the official news outlets, Xinhua, has begun to call for a new global reserve currency to be created given the instability of the dollar; "US fiscal failure warrants a de-Americanized world and the creation of a new reserve currency to be created to replace the dominant U.S. dollar, so that the international community could permanently stay away from the spillover of the intensifying domestic political turmoil in the United States." The U.S. shouldn’t risk defaulting on its debt because doing so would wreak havoc in the world’s economy and financial markets, said the heads of JPMorgan, Deutsche Bank AG and Pacific Investment Management Co. JPMorgan Chief Executive Officer Jamie Dimon said yesterday during a panel discussion at a financial industry conference in Washington; “The United States cannot default and, in my opinion, will not default. It would ripple through the global economy in a way you couldn’t possibly understand.”
 
Penalty shootout (y)

Are you suggesting lining up all the Democraps and the Retardicans and taking it in turns to shoot one at say 50 yards. First to miss decides it ?

Maybe you got something there bud ! It would likely decide the issue, which is more than the present system can do.
 
The whole world really can't be held to ransom by 2 turkey cocks in Washington.
There should be a " road map " to resolution of the problem before it plunges the world into economic chaos. For instance:-
1. xxxx days to reach a compromise or failing that
2. It is decided by the toss of a coin or failing that
3. pistols at dawn


I'd go for pistols at dawn - at least that might get rid of one of the clowns.
 
Given that the market took the ATP data as a proxy I wonder if they'll be as much/any reaction to data effectively already released and now almost 3 weeks late?

Unless the NFP data are drastically different from what's expected, I think reaction will be muted. The value of NFP is as a coincident indicator which has diminished with this delay. That said, with a couple of more weeks worth of data available to the BLS, does it mean there won't have to be a later revision to this number?
 
Well what a fiasco.
The whole mess is going to happen again next Jan/Feb.

Same ole opponents battling it out !! While the country suffers. Next time the Reps may not blink.

21st century and they can't even organise a budget. A Parliamentary system would have it done in 1 afternoon. The US needs a big shake-up imho. A Cromwell to organise their stupid affairs.
 
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