Trump Presidency and the Consequences

[counter_violent]

Life is too short and I'm v.busy.

If you have real evidence send it to baby face Giuliani.

If you are lucky you might get a contract from Trumpy.

Nothing more important than democracy and freedom.

Good job I have time to defend your freedoms then eh.

 

[counter_violent]

You're quite wrong - it's precisely because I HAVE indeed been trawling through everything. As I said, thresholds. As for democracy: I do care a hoot but two would be a stretch. I'm not enamoured of any system, especially ones which lends themselves to unpunished abuse. If corruption and deceit in government were rewarded by a public firing squad I might be more enthusiastic. As it is, all I see are mostly self-serving individuals of exceptional venality putting themselves forward as principled representatives of the electorate when their real agenda is lining their own pockets and enjoying the world's biggest pissing race.

That's a fair enough point of view and I think the majority of posters on this thread would have them all shot.

We did however state that this was not about left/ right or sleepy Joe and Trumpton, but about truth and justice.
So without truth and justice I fear that the US will head towards civil war and possibly the only way to stop that is if Trump declares marshal law until such time as the issue is sorted out.

Thoughts?

 

[Pat494]

Trump has imported the procedure of " bad losing " straight from Africa. Everyone knows their elections are usually rigged and it's usually by the winner. Standard practice to call foul if one loses.
Democracy - don't make me laugh ! Money buys votes in the US. Which is a sort of rigging by both sides. Their battle funds are in the billons and it doesn't all get spent on popcorn and ice lollies.
An honest candidate wouldn't stand a chance.

 

[Atilla]

That's a fair enough point of view and I think the majority of posters on this thread would have them all shot.

We did however state that this was not about left/ right or sleepy Joe and Trumpton, but about truth and justice.
So without truth and justice I fear that the US will head towards civil war and possibly the only way to stop that is if Trump declares marshal law until such time as the issue is sorted out.

Thoughts?

I'm all for truth and justice but Trump truth and justice all in one sentence is pushing the boundaries of fiction.

 

[cantagril]

That's a fair enough point of view and I think the majority of posters on this thread would have them all shot.

We did however state that this was not about left/ right or sleepy Joe and Trumpton, but about truth and justice.
So without truth and justice I fear that the US will head towards civil war and possibly the only way to stop that is if Trump declares marshal law until such time as the issue is sorted out.

Thoughts?

Thoughts? For free???? Where's my penny you swindler?!!!

Rather like the Titanic and the Olympic, the twin ships of Truth and Justice sailed (and sank) many moons ago.

...it could also be argued that the US was heading for Civil War (again) far faster in the last 4 years than at any point since the late 1850s.

... but yes, shootings too good for 'em and I also feel that a Great Cull of politicos is long overdue on both sides of the Atlantic. It would certainly be draw for tourists to see heads on pikes again at Traitor's Gate.

 

[Pat494]

Maybe some would agree with the proposition that Trump would have won ( fairly ) had he championed The Paris Accords and climate change policies.
Phew a bit of luck there then or was it divine intervention ?

 

[barjon]

Pat,
I will so enjoy quoting this post and your previous one back to you when it is proved that the U.S. election was rigged. I'll do that when you and everyone else complains: "why oh why weren't we told about the evidence (that already exists) at the time?" I may have to wait years for your ensuing apology which I expect to be lengthy and profound, but I'm 100% confident that one will be warranted; regardless of whether or not you or I are around and/or you're gracious enough to provide it.

Ask yourself this Pat: why did the supreme court make the ruling it did? I'll give youy two clues:
1. It wasn't because of the lack of evidence of foul play - there's plenty (as you would know if you'd looked at tenth of the info' posted to this thread).
2. Put yourself in the shoes of those judges. Then think what your life would be like and what will very likely happen to you and your family if you rule in Trump's favour. Not pretty is it? So, I don't blame those judges, likely as not I'd have done the same in their shoes.

C'mon Pat, just look at the evidence presented, that's all you and millions of others have to do. After all, if there is no evidence and it's all just 'Trump lies', then your point will be proved. But you can't say that unless and until you've at least taken the time and trouble to consider the allegations for yourself with an open mind. Why won't you do that and help save democracy? To answer my own question, the only reason I can think of is that deep down you know the election was rigged but you don't want to accept it. If you see the evidence, then you'll be forced to acknowledge it and that Biden won by foul play. Much easier to waive it all away and dismiss it as Trump lies rather than face the uncomfortable truth.
Tim

Pat,
I will so enjoy quoting this post and your previous one back to you when it is proved that the U.S. election was rigged. I'll do that when you and everyone else complains: "why oh why weren't we told about the evidence (that already exists) at the time?" I may have to wait years for your ensuing apology which I expect to be lengthy and profound, but I'm 100% confident that one will be warranted; regardless of whether or not you or I are around and/or you're gracious enough to provide it.

Ask yourself this Pat: why did the supreme court make the ruling it did? I'll give youy two clues:
1. It wasn't because of the lack of evidence of foul play - there's plenty (as you would know if you'd looked at tenth of the info' posted to this thread).
2. Put yourself in the shoes of those judges. Then think what your life would be like and what will very likely happen to you and your family if you rule in Trump's favour. Not pretty is it? So, I don't blame those judges, likely as not I'd have done the same in their shoes.

C'mon Pat, just look at the evidence presented, that's all you and millions of others have to do. After all, if there is no evidence and it's all just 'Trump lies', then your point will be proved. But you can't say that unless and until you've at least taken the time and trouble to consider the allegations for yourself with an open mind. Why won't you do that and help save democracy? To answer my own question, the only reason I can think of is that deep down you know the election was rigged but you don't want to accept it. If you see the evidence, then you'll be forced to acknowledge it and that Biden won by foul play. Much easier to waive it all away and dismiss it as Trump lies rather than face the uncomfortable truth.
Tim.

Oh, Timothy, Timothy,

So now you can”t get you way the Supreme Court judges are corrupt. God save us from insanity.

 

[counter_violent]

Oh, Timothy, Timothy,

So now you can”t get you way the Supreme Court judges are corrupt. God save us from insanity.

How could they not be corrupt. They are appointed according to their political affiliation. Anyone who thinks they were appointed on merit needs their head examined.

 

[timsk]

Oh, Timothy, Timothy,

So now you can”t get you way the Supreme Court judges are corrupt. God save us from insanity.

Hi Jon,
No, I never said they were corrupt. In fact, that didn't even occour to me and I didn't mean to imply it - though you've clearly got that impression - so I apologise for not making myself clear. Sorry!
Tim.

 

[barjon]

Hi Jon,
No, I never said they were corrupt. In fact, that didn't even occour to me and I didn't mean to imply it - though you've clearly got that impression - so I apologise for not making myself clear. Sorry!
Tim.

No, my bad. I inferred “corruption” since you suggested they voted against Trump out of fear of what their lives would be like if they didn’t and not because of the lack of evidence. If you’ve been reading their judgements, they’ve been unanimous in their hard hitting condemnation of the Trump claims.

 

[counter_violent]

Thoughts? For free???? Where's my penny you swindler?!!!

Rather like the Titanic and the Olympic, the twin ships of Truth and Justice sailed (and sank) many moons ago.

...it could also be argued that the US was heading for Civil War (again) far faster in the last 4 years than at any point since the late 1850s.

... but yes, shootings too good for 'em and I also feel that a Great Cull of politicos is long overdue on both sides of the Atlantic. It would certainly be draw for tourists to see heads on pikes again at Traitor's Gate.

You know....there's something in this total contempt for politicians across the board, which is the reason Trump got elected in the first place. He may be many things, but a politician he is not. So we come full circle....4 more years....4 more years.

Wonder if we can persuade Farage to do a Trump in the UK.

 

[timsk]

You're quite wrong - it's precisely because I HAVE indeed been trawling through everything. As I said, thresholds. As for democracy: I do care a hoot but two would be a stretch. I'm not enamoured of any system, especially ones which lends themselves to unpunished abuse. If corruption and deceit in government were rewarded by a public firing squad I might be more enthusiastic. As it is, all I see are mostly self-serving individuals of exceptional venality putting themselves forward as principled representatives of the electorate when their real agenda is lining their own pockets and enjoying the world's biggest pissing race.

Hi cant',
Very droll!

In broad terms I go along with what you say. The issue comes when one considers the alternatives to democracy. Imperfect as it is, I'll settle for our flawed system rather than go down the route of Russia, China, North Korea etc. As for thresholds, yours must be extreme by any measure. When 1,000s more postal ballots are returned than were sent out, that's a fairly good indication that something's gone wrong. Not cast iron proof of fraud perhaps, but highly suspicious at the very least and surely warrants investigation. Ditto for the poll watchers evicted unlawfully from the count, windows masked off while the count continues behind closed doors. Then there's the dozens of afidavits from highly qualified people with everything to lose if they're found to be lying. The list goes on - but you know all this anyway, so I won't bother continuing. Besides which, the only threshold that really matters in my view is the one that almost 50% of Americans believe the election was rigged. It matters not whether they're right or wrong, whether Trump's the devil incarnate and Biden's an angel sent to save the planet (as Pat seems to believe). What matters is their perception that democracy has failed, such that they no longer have faith in the system or believe they're living in a fair and just society. That's seriously, seriously dangerous, and it's what c_v, I and others are trying to get y'all to understand. Sadly, most here are too obsessed with Trump and getting shot of him to appreciate or care that something far more serious is taking place. And the most striking thing about the numbers of people believing the election was rigged is that 30% of them are democrats. Now that stat' really ought - in my view anyway - to smash right through any and all your thresholds.
Tim.

 

[timsk]

No, my bad. I inferred “corruption” since you suggested they voted against Trump out of fear of what their lives would be like if they didn’t and not because of the lack of evidence. If you’ve been reading their judgements, they’ve been unanimous in their hard hitting condemnation of the Trump claims.

Hi Jon,
Okay, I understand.

What I was trying to infer was not that the judges are corrupt, but that their lives wouldn't be worth living if they voted in favour of Trump. The death threats, 24/7 media scrutiny and the social media hate campaign against them and their families that would inevitably ensue would be too much for anyone to bear. Hence me saying I would probably have done the same in their shoes.
Tim.

 

[counter_violent]

Hi Jon,
Okay, I understand.

What I was trying to infer was not that the judges are corrupt, but that their lives wouldn't be worth living if they voted in favour of Trump. The death threats, 24/7 media scrutiny and the social media hate campaign against them and their families that would inevitably ensue would be too much for anyone to bear. Hence me saying I would probably have done the same in their shoes.
Tim.

In many ways this is exactly what has played out. The cowardice shown by those who ought to know better is staggering. At some point, someone needs to stand up and own this problem. Which makes Trump (the non politician) the bravest American thus far. Better hope someone in authority gets a grip of it. The last thing they need is "the people" sorting it out.

 

[counter_violent]

Dominion CEO invited twice to attend the hearing for questioning. If he ignores this request again, he will be subpoenaed.

 

[barjon]

Hi Jon,
Okay, I understand.

What I was trying to infer was not that the judges are corrupt, but that their lives wouldn't be worth living if they voted in favour of Trump. The death threats, 24/7 media scrutiny and the social media hate campaign against them and their families that would inevitably ensue would be too much for anyone to bear. Hence me saying I would probably have done the same in their shoes.
Tim.

Ok, but you are still suggesting that they are making their judgements on something other than the evidence (or lack of it) put before them. Surely you must be joking.

It is telling to me that they have been coming up with these judgements unanimously - despite the “political affiliation” decried by cv - and I shoudn’t think they are all scaredycats. I suppose none of that will deter you from believing all the Trump crap despite the fact that the highest courts in the land are, so far, unconvinced and judge that the significant fraud allegations are wholly without foundation. You keep saying that the evidence is plain to see, but I think they are a tad better placed to determine that than you. Is it at all feasible that you can have the greater insight? I think not.

 

[timsk]

Ok, but you are still suggesting that they are making their judgements on something other than the evidence (or lack of it) put before them. Surely you must be joking.

Mornin' Jon,
I'm afraid that one of the lessons from Brexit was to question all pillars of society, particularly those that I wouldn't have dreamt of questioning prior to it. Sadly, pretty well all the ones that I once thought as being beyond reproach have all fallen by the wayside, including our own Supreme Court under Lady Hale's leadership. Besides which, if you're one of the U.S. judges, are you seriously suggesting that the threat of having your house burnt down with you and all your family in it isn't going to weigh heavily on your mind and, possibly, influence your decision?

Be that as it may, the above is all a red herring and doesn't address the elephant in the room that c_v, I and others keep coming back to you but which you, Pat et al refuse to acknowledge; namely the destruction of democracy. (Correction, credit where it's due: Alan is the only one - as far as I'm aware - who's tackled this issue head on.) I'm as bored writing about this as you must be reading about it, so I'll try a different tack . . .

Let's suppose that you, Pat, Alan et al are 100% correct in everything you say about Trump: he's rotten to the core and all the 'evidence' is nothing of the sort. The cctv and mobile phone footage are all fake, all the afidavits are by people who signed them in return for huge bribes and there are perfectly innocent explanations for things like the tens of thousands of mail-out ballots being fed into the counting machine in exactly the same numerical order that they came off the printing press. (Unlike the Supreme Court judges, I'd love to hear the explanation for that one, lol!) If Biden and the democrats really believe that they won fair and square and Trump is just a sore loser who's stiring up poop loads of trouble with lie upon lie upon lie, then there's a very simple solution that's a massive win-win for them. A true no-brainer. If they've nothing to fear, let Trump have his day in court, investigate all the alleged offences and allow him to be hoisted with his own petard. The consequences would be quite staggering, truly monumental. Trump would be utterly humiliated, signatories to the afidavits would lose their careers, reputations and face criminal charges, the republican party would be so decimated that it might never recover, Biden and the democrats would be completely vindicated and their mandate (which is pretty weak at the moment) would be strengthened significantly. But the biggest and by far the most important prize of all is that due diligence would be seen by the American people to have been followed in order to protect that most precious and sacred of institutions: the democratic process itself. The consequences of all this would be that tens of millions of Americans would have their faith in democracy restored along with their belief that they're living in a free and just society. The foundations would then be in place to repair the deep divisions that currently exist. With so much to gain and absolutely nothing that I can see to lose (assuming Trump is lying) why oh why doesn't Biden, the democrats, MSM and their supporters go down this route? Answer me that if you can please Jon. From where I'm standing, there's only one possible answer that I can think of and I'm afraid to say that it's the same one that Donald J. Trump would give.
Tim.

 

[counter_violent]

The fact that Dominion refuse to appear in order that they explain themselves tells you everything you need to know about what went on here.

 

[barjon]

Mornin' Jon,
I'm afraid that one of the lessons from Brexit was to question all pillars of society, particularly those that I wouldn't have dreamt of questioning prior to it. Sadly, pretty well all the ones that I once thought as being beyond reproach have all fallen by the wayside, including our own Supreme Court under Lady Hale's leadership. Besides which, if you're one of the U.S. judges, are you seriously suggesting that the threat of having your house burnt down with you and all your family in it isn't going to weigh heavily on your mind and, possibly, influence your decision?

Be that as it may, the above is all a red herring and doesn't address the elephant in the room that c_v, I and others keep coming back to you but which you, Pat et al refuse to acknowledge; namely the destruction of democracy. (Correction, credit where it's due: Alan is the only one - as far as I'm aware - who's tackled this issue head on.) I'm as bored writing about this as you must be reading about it, so I'll try a different tack . . .

Let's suppose that you, Pat, Alan et al are 100% correct in everything you say about Trump: he's rotten to the core and all the 'evidence' is nothing of the sort. The cctv and mobile phone footage are all fake, all the afidavits are by people who signed them in return for huge bribes and there are perfectly innocent explanations for things like the tens of thousands of mail-out ballots being fed into the counting machine in exactly the same numerical order that they came off the printing press. (Unlike the Supreme Court judges, I'd love to hear the explanation for that one, lol!) If Biden and the democrats really believe that they won fair and square and Trump is just a sore loser who's stiring up poop loads of trouble with lie upon lie upon lie, then there's a very simple solution that's a massive win-win for them. A true no-brainer. If they've nothing to fear, let Trump have his day in court, investigate all the alleged offences and allow him to be hoisted with his own petard. The consequences would be quite staggering, truly monumental. Trump would be utterly humiliated, signatories to the afidavits would lose their careers, reputations and face criminal charges, the republican party would be so decimated that it might never recover, Biden and the democrats would be completely vindicated and their mandate (which is pretty weak at the moment) would be strengthened significantly. But the biggest and by far the most important prize of all is that due diligence would be seen by the American people to have been followed in order to protect that most precious and sacred of institutions: the democratic process itself. The consequences of all this would be that tens of millions of Americans would have their faith in democracy restored along with their belief that they're living in a free and just society. The foundations would then be in place to repair the deep divisions that currently exist. With so much to gain and absolutely nothing that I can see to lose (assuming Trump is lying) why oh why doesn't Biden, the democrats, MSM and their supporters go down this route? Answer me that if you can please Jon. From where I'm standing, there's only one possible answer that I can think of and I'm afraid to say that it's the same one that Donald J. Trump would give.
Tim.

I absolutely wish to address the elephant in the room! By his actions in refusing to accept a legitimate result (legitimate being what judge after judge has confirmed) it is Trump who is doing his best to destroy democracy.

Of course, if you are going to persist in the ludicrous claim that the judges are not the pillars of the law and amongst the most respected people in the country, together with the equally ludicrous claim about their houses being burnt down (which, incidentally, says more about what you would expect from the thuggish approach of Trump’s followers than anything ) then there’s no hope for you, so I’d best leave you to dream your fantasy. Ta, ta.

 

[counter_violent]

Criminal Investigation of Hunter Biden begins.