Trading Naked - Part 2

[Bloodhound]

House move grinding to a halt so am back to trading again. Nice start and finish to the week courtesy of cable.

 

[Splitlink]

re: having wider stops to allow "myself" to breathe, not the trade.

That is so insightful.
The real tension is when the stop-loss is about to be hit, and you're wondering "will it hit the SL and reverse? shall I push the SL a bit further out?" etc

having a wider stop, allows you to see the action with less tension as its further away from the stop. and gives you time to assess.

With tight stops, you put yourself into tense mode immediately because the slightest nudge could threaten the trade.

I can relate to that post of yours. Thats why most of my trades have about 30 pips SL. I find it gives me about 30 minutes to monitor whats happening. If a trade is poorly executed, you have more information/bars to assess its worth.

thanks for continuing this and have a great week.

With tight stops you have to be right about direction so that the trade moves into profit very quickly. There are one or two traders who profess to be able to do that, but not very many. Therefore, close stops are an expensive dream for most of us.

Distant stops can be a bit expensive, too, though.

 

[Bloodhound]

Stops are a tough one but, despite trying a variety of options I am back to where I started, with 20 pip hard stops, trailing after entry on M1 up to break even and then taking it from there.

The interesting thing Trendie is that, when I wrote that post, I thought widening my stops would allow me to breathe more and stay more relaxed. In fact it wasn't stop distances that were the problem but the fact that I did not actually have a set in stone plan for how I would trail in the early phase of a trade. Thanks to some excellent advice from Jon, I have now dropped down to M1 and all is working much better.

 

[peace]

Stops are a tough one but, despite trying a variety of options I am back to where I started, with 20 pip hard stops, trailing after entry on M1 up to break even and then taking it from there.

The interesting thing Trendie is that, when I wrote that post, I thought widening my stops would allow me to breathe more and stay more relaxed. In fact it wasn't stop distances that were the problem but the fact that I did not actually have a set in stone plan for how I would trail in the early phase of a trade. Thanks to some excellent advice from Jon, I have now dropped down to M1 and all is working much better.

So how do you manage your trades when they go off side, for instance do you have a soft stop at Xpips that sits between your hard stop and entry, if so what might that be.

I use a 10 point hard stop (futures) but will close (no ifs, buts or maybes) if price reaches my soft stop price level. My soft stops vary according to the contract but never exceed 3 points.

For me, placing a hard stop helps to keep it out of the action around my entry and it also acts as a disaster prevention measure.

I find large stops to be an anathema, if I'm wrong, I like to know about it ASAP and be long gone, not to mention large stops require a greater positive price move so as to maintain a decent RR ratio; each to their own I guess.

Peace

 

[tenbobtrader]

So how do you manage your trades when they go off side, for instance do you have a soft stop at Xpips that sits between your hard stop and entry, if so what might that be.

I use a 10 point hard stop (futures) but will close (no ifs, buts or maybes) if price reaches my soft stop price level. My soft stops vary according to the contract but never exceed 3 points.

For me, placing a hard stop helps to keep it out of the action around my entry and it also acts a disaster prevention measure.

I find large stops to be an anathema, if I'm wrong, I like to know about it ASAP and be long gone, not to mention large stops require a greater positive price move so as to maintain a decent RR ratio; each to their own I guess.

Peace

Hi Peace

thats your stops

whats your attitude to reward Peace - how do you deal with the great unknown ?

you a manual trail stops trader or fixed target or something else ?


Andy

 

[Bloodhound]

For me, placing a hard stop helps to keep it out of the action around my entry and it also acts a disaster prevention measure.

I find large stops to be an anathema, if I'm wrong, I like to know about it ASAP and be long gone, not to mention large stops require a greater positive price move so as to maintain a decent RR ratio; each to their own I guess.

Peace

Hi Peace,

Totally agree with what you say, especially regarding R:R.

As to what I do when price goes offside, good question!! It really does depend on the individual move, speed of price etc. I'm comfortable with price moving 10 or 12 pips against me but after that I get nervous and will cut trades instantly if I think things aren't looking right. On the whole price gives some clues (such as a LrH on M1 printing in an upmove). As a gauge I would say that I expect a breakout to retest the breakout level and maybe overhsoot by a couple of pips. Any more and things are quite probably going wrong.

All the best

Rob

 

[tenbobtrader]

Hi Peace,

Totally agree with what you say, especially regarding R:R.

As to what I do when price goes offside, good question!! It really does depend on the individual move, speed of price etc. I'm comfortable with price moving 10 or 12 pips against me but after that I get nervous and will cut trades instantly if I think things aren't looking right. On the whole price gives some clues (such as a LrH on M1 printing in an upmove). As a gauge I would say that I expect a breakout to retest the breakout level and maybe overhsoot by a couple of pips. Any more and things are quite probably going wrong.

All the best

Rob

Hi Rob

How many go's at the level ?

ie: just after you trade out it turns on a sixpence and triggers your level again without giving a opposite signal

you in again or you stand to one side and let it go or not as case maybe ?

Andy

 

[peace]

The attached chart illustrates how I like to place em, all very basic stuff but someone somewhere may find it useful.

hard stop 10080
soft stop 10073
Short 10070
TP 10000

Stopped out at 10074, although price did go on to trade as high as 10084 but has since dropped to a swing lo of 10059

Got filled on this when I should have pulled the order given an imminent news release at 11am and higher than average momentum on M5, vary rare for me not to follow my rules, hey ho wide awake now.

Peace

PS apologies to Hawktrader if you see the chart, didn't do anything clever by combining an image of the chart from one broker and the price ladder from the other broker.

 

[Bloodhound]

Hi Rob

How many go's at the level ?

ie: just after you trade out it turns on a sixpence and triggers your level again without giving a buy signal

you in again or you stand to one side and let it go or not as case maybe ?

Andy

Hi Andy,

I'll only have one crack at each entry. In general terms, if an entry fails on me, there is a chance it may either:

a) Offer me a better entry a little later on
b) Be setting itself up to reverse direction
c) Going into chop monster mode

If it's a) then a I'll just and wait - on a choppy day I can have at least 15 entries during the London / NY sessions
If it's b) then I'll just sit and wait for a reversal to develop before jumping on board
If it's c) I don't want to have anything to do with cable when she's gone choppy!!

All the best

Rob

P.S. I would always rather miss a decent move through using super tight stops than risk drawdown

 

[peace]

The attached chart illustrates how I like to place em, all very basic stuff but someone somewhere may find it useful.

hard stop 10080
soft stop 10073
Short 10070
TP 10000

Stopped out at 10074, although price did go on to trade as high as 10084 but has since dropped to a swing lo of 10059

Got filled on this when I should have pulled the order given an imminent news release at 11am and higher than average momentum on M5, vary rare for me not to follow my rules, hey ho wide awake now.

Peace

Hi Peace

thats your stops

whats your attitude to reward Peace - how do you deal with the great unknown ?

you a manual trail stops trader or fixed target or something else ?


Andy

Hi Andy

I'm a bit of a mix and matcher.

At the beginning of the week, I tend to mainly trade the mini dow, as it is a low value contract but it tends to have a wide daily range. The aim of the game is to risk as less as possible while trying to build a fund for later on in the week.

Most (not all) of my early to mid week trades will be based on an initial fixed of 3 to 1. Later on, providing I have had a good start to the week and have built-up a decent sized fund, then I like to push the boat out by trailing stops and running trades.

Peace

 

[neil]

Youngsters these days...tsk

As an interlude during the present discussion take a look at this whippersnapper over on J16's site. Albeit the thread is usually devoted to longer term trading (Daily)it now features people posting hourly and, horror of horrors, even 5 minute charts.
The point is that this whippersnapper - BENJI533- seems to be quick on the uptake when learning to trade. He shows some set ups that might interest Kite et al.
I hate Benji533 already:cheesy:

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=3218020#post3218020

 

[Bloodhound]

Great link Neil. Thank you - really interesting stuff.

Damn M5 traders - we pop up all over the shop!!

 

[Bloodhound]

FAO Tenbob

Hi Andy,

Re. your earlier question about what happens if I get taken out and re-entry. I've got one setting up as I write. T7 triggered but then I was taken out on the bounce off 6710 so I'm looking to re-enter on the next break of a level (T8).



All the best

Rob

 

[Vaco]

Therefore, close stops are an expensive dream for most of us.

Distant stops can be a bit expensive, too, though.

trouble is its all a bit subjective and therefore depends on the time frame your trading,

on the 5m most logical stops above/below the last swing high/low are about 20-30 pips. On higher time frames it can be much more which is why i think most on higher timeframes either trade off of support/resistance bounces or on pullbacks from the trend.

 

[HawkTrader]

Hi all,

Hope you've all had a good start to the week. I've started with a -20 pip loss, typical me. I'm testing out this method and I only really expect a few great setups a week max, but as soon as I awoke at 8am I seemed to have already entered and I don't know if it was impulse or actually a good setup. I always feel eager to start testing, but I realise I can't test properly (or trade) if I don't excersize patience!

 

[blancspa]

g`luck with trying to catch top/bottom

 

[Bloodhound]

Nice level??

Some will be selling this I guess and some will be waiting on the other side to buy it.......



N.B. No requirement for anything other than a few lines.......

 

[neil]

Some will be selling this I guess and some will be waiting on the other side to buy it.......

View attachment 67980

N.B. No requirement for anything other than a few lines.......

I imagine Dante might say put a buy stop above and below those lines and let the price come to you

 

[HawkTrader]

g`luck with trying to catch top/bottom

I do belieive it is possible, but you need extreme patience. It's worth it for the R:R though.

 

[gamma]

I do belieive it is possible, but you need extreme patience. It's worth it for the R:R though.

The problem with trying to catch tops and bottoms is many a time while you are waiting for it it hit a price it turns some distance before it hits the tops/bottoms. Its best to be aware to take action around the region rather than a top/bottom price.

(This talk of tops/bottoms almost sounds sexual)