Trading for the Track Record

[lurkerlurker]

When I eventually get my act together and go back to live trading, this will be my objective.

This isn't intended to be a variation on the ever so boring "how much can you make" question, but please forgive the similarities.

I would appreciate if traders could post the following info:

1. Duration of trading career
2. Maximum annual drawdown for the last year (or less if you have been trading < 12 months) as a percentage
3. Instruments traded and a brief strategy overview (ie arbritage, long/short equity, currencies)
4. Trading style (swing, position, day, scalp, long term)
5. Annualised return for each complete year, as a percentage
6. Commission as a percentage of profit / loss
7. Average daily pips
8. Plaform (futures, SB, CFDs)
9. Any relevant employment background (not to be nosey, but a simple Yes/No to being employed in a similar capacity would help)
10. Amount of time trading before becoming consistently profitable

I am trying to determine the experience levels, profitability, and strategies of members here. I do not wish to pry, and I am not interested in dollar amounts. I am merely interested in the progression of established members, and would like to see the variations in trading techniques, experience, drawdowns, and returns.

Furthermore, if any of you could comment on trading for the track record in general, perhaps with a view to private client fund management in a decade or so. If I can support myself from trading for 10 years with a good understanding of the market, I am considering starting a small hedge fund. The track record would be important for this. Also, has a good track record assisted in anyone getting a job in finance?

Just throwing darts here, but I believe it will be an interesting thread.

Cheers

 

[lurkerlurker]

I'll start

I've been spreadbetting for 6 months. Never been consistently profitable. Currently papertrading after an 87% drawdown over 6 months. I day trade indices, never hold overnights. I've position traded equities three times though SB, holding one overnight position only. I was in and out of the market around 15 times a day, and have paid around £3,000 in spread. No financial employment history.

 

[charliechan]

good post and good questions.

ive been trading for 10 years or there abouts. futures, stocks, options. mostly futures. id say passion for the lifestyle and markets must come before the love of money.

before seeking the answers to these good questions though you need to take a stp back and focus on point 6 of your post.

sbread betting is a mugs game imo. sorry. you are paying too wide a spread i bet for day trading putting you further behind the curve - as if it wasnt difficult enough already. also, your frequency of trading is especially high given this point. in other words, any profits you do make are going into the pocket of mr sb in a very high proportion.

spread and costs of trading are the reason most dont make profit over time. how much profitable would you be if you could buy at the bid and sell the offer - making the spread not eating it? it soon adds up! look to trade a real market with limit orders. youll miss some trades sure, but you cant have it all!

 

[lurkerlurker]

good post and good questions.

ive been trading for 10 years or there abouts. futures, stocks, options. mostly futures. id say passion for the lifestyle and markets must come before the love of money.

before seeking the answers to these good questions though you need to take a stp back and focus on point 6 of your post.

sbread betting is a mugs game imo. sorry. you are paying too wide a spread i bet for day trading putting you further behind the curve - as if it wasnt difficult enough already. also, your frequency of trading is especially high given this point. in other words, any profits you do make are going into the pocket of mr sb in a very high proportion.

spread and costs of trading are the reason most dont make profit over time. how much profitable would you be if you could buy at the bid and sell the offer - making the spread not eating it? it soon adds up! look to trade a real market with limit orders. youll miss some trades sure, but you cant have it all!

You have a very good point. Trying to get over a 4 pip spread in the Dow is preventing me being successful. I have problems in other areas, but increasing losses and reducing gains by paying a fat spread to an SB firm is one of them.

It is an artificial market and I'd really like to be able to see depth of market stuff. My intention is to get an account with TwoWayFutures (1 point spread on the ES, YM, and Z) with level 2 information. The tax advantage of spreadbetting still exists. The firm hedge all bets. However, the minimum balance is £5000 and the minimum trade is 1 lot in the underlying. For the YM, that is around £2·50 per point, with added currency risk. I don't want to blow £5k while I am still learning, or trade contract sizes that large just yet.

Do you agree that I should stay with SB until profitable enough to move on to the futures?

 

[charliechan]

. I don't want to blow £5k while I am still learning, or trade contract sizes that large just yet.

Do you agree that I should stay with SB until profitable enough to move on to the futures?

but youre more likely to blow 5k by losing 4 ticks on every trade. if im making a market against you, i know i can make an easy 4 ticks each time. thats your money lost. trading ability is more than timing volatility.

 

[lurkerlurker]

but youre more likely to blow 5k by losing 4 ticks on every trade. if im making a market against you, i know i can make an easy 4 ticks each time. thats your money lost. trading ability is more than timing volatility.

Your previous post prompted me to do my books. I've lost around £2,500 on spread payments. Compared with the likes of TwoWayFutures (an offshore hedging SB firm which charges 1 point spread on the YM, 0.5 on the Z) I've overpaid more than my losses in spread.

Quote from my journal post:

Just done my books of all trades ever taken since December 2006.

The following is rather illuminating.

My total loss: (£1,509.76) //Ouch

I've calculated the difference between the spread charged on the contract with the SB firms I have traded with, and the price charged by offshore hedging SB bookies (for example TwoWayFutures). TWF has a spread of 0.5 on the FTSE/Dax, 1 on the Dow, etc.

Difference between TWF spread and spread paid: £1,868.00

Taking into account the difference between the stake size (£pp) between the full future, and the sizes I have been using while spreadbetting, my account would be floating around breakeven had I just traded 1 lot of the full future from the beginning. (for this calculation, I had YM at £2.50pp)

At the very least, if I had been able to trade paying only the market spread, I would have a net positive pip total. I guess that makes my trades "right".

Straw Poll - setup costs in parenthesis. Should LurkerLurker:

1) Stick with CMC at £1pp until a decent profit can be made slowly over time (£Free, high commissions)
2) Open an IB account and pay the tax, make the spread instead of paying it (£2,500)
3) Open a TWF account and pay a spread of 1, not pay tax. (£5,000)