alpha_monkey
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wisestguy said:
fist.
fist.
Strategic Trader
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gaining access to pooled funds for high leverage and professional fees will always have implications
TWI
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I thought you directed this remark to me yet I made it clear earlier in this thread that I did not think it appropriate to make funded traders put anything up themselves. I believe that the highest chance of success will come from either somebody who goes fully funded or self funded. When people start in this business they do not know what they are getting into, if you have enough money to go self funded and can afford to live on little for the first 6-9 months then that is one thing, if you can only afford to put up half the funding then I assure you it is better you keep that in the bank in case you need it and take the fully funded option. IMO It is important to keep stress levels reduced in the initial months.
If I ever did have somebody ask to do a split funding I would make all losses pro-rata based on the percentage split but I do not foresee I would ever pursue this option.
I do not want to post on this again so I hope that makes my point clear.
TWI
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It does seem a little like that at times that is why there is an interview process, in order to find the right people so ensuring the highest potential for success. If you get the selection process right then it is worth taking all the risk. Perhaps surprising that the wannabe trader who has already formed what he/she thinks are effective trading strategies but who has never really proved it is a far higher risk because they will find it harder to adapt to a system they are taught. As a result somebody who bigs themselves up about their past trading endeavours is more likely to get a black mark against their name.
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the learner with potential will learn regardless of past endeavours
you either trade your own cash or you hire someone else to to it for you , for whatever reason , though I personally am against this .
anything halfway is suspicious . nobody has answered me as why and what benefits there are to pooling capital on a 1st you lose your capital , then you try mine basis ?
sounds silly to me .
as for records , there may be a lot of frauds out there . but my record is genuine , I have a statement from finspreads that says I am in the top 20% of their clientele on a percentage basis.
if anyone wants to put some money against this let me know 🙂
PS. are some people really suggesting that a proven record of winning actual $ in the market is a bad thing ?
haha. well , you might as well go out and hire Nick leeson if that is what you think.
It confirms my own experience of a lot of so called funds , they want to ram their own trading system down your throat , despite the fact that it is unproven and that you have yourself a real proven track record .
like I said before - ain't about making money , it's about POWER and about the fund controllers doing the W word with their ego.
some things never change.
anything halfway is suspicious . nobody has answered me as why and what benefits there are to pooling capital on a 1st you lose your capital , then you try mine basis ?
sounds silly to me .
as for records , there may be a lot of frauds out there . but my record is genuine , I have a statement from finspreads that says I am in the top 20% of their clientele on a percentage basis.
if anyone wants to put some money against this let me know 🙂
PS. are some people really suggesting that a proven record of winning actual $ in the market is a bad thing ?
haha. well , you might as well go out and hire Nick leeson if that is what you think.
It confirms my own experience of a lot of so called funds , they want to ram their own trading system down your throat , despite the fact that it is unproven and that you have yourself a real proven track record .
like I said before - ain't about making money , it's about POWER and about the fund controllers doing the W word with their ego.
some things never change.
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Strategic Trader
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some methodologies are teachable and have a identifiable and repeatable risk / reward basis
Strategic Trader
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lack of knowledge and lack of skill are the greatest assets of the naieve
the long run is long indeed , plenty of time for companies to go bust and spectacularly too.
Mr. Neiderhoffer was one such big swinging d*ck , was he not , now look at him , he's is a figure of fun used as an example of what NOT to do .
so don't count your chickens yet.
but of , if the set up is " right " , then it may well be a very good business model , though not a trading one , it would just depend on how many sucker traders you can pull in to contribute with various fees and whatever.
Mr. Neiderhoffer was one such big swinging d*ck , was he not , now look at him , he's is a figure of fun used as an example of what NOT to do .
so don't count your chickens yet.
but of , if the set up is " right " , then it may well be a very good business model , though not a trading one , it would just depend on how many sucker traders you can pull in to contribute with various fees and whatever.
No one is a winner or loser until they finish the game...everything inbetween is only taken on the basis "up to this time"....as such I wouldn't presume to take the p..ss out of someone like Niederhoffer especially when I couldn't even take the trouble to learn how to spell his name correctly . For clarity "Niederhoffer" not "Neiderhoffer"......................
Strategic Trader
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someone who has access to hundreds of millions, even after a blow up, maybe a figure of fun to some - but is a pretty serious player to me - i personally dont like his style of trading - but he has had a lot of happy investors over the years who have made millions thanks to him
" No one is a winner or loser until they finish the game...everything inbetween is only taken on the basis "up to this time".... "
this is only applies if you have unlimted time and $ - theorectical BS . for people living in the real world , real time meaningful measurements are necessary.
" as such I wouldn't presume to take the p..ss out of someone like Niederhoffer especially when I couldn't even take the trouble to learn how to spell his name correctly . For clarity "Niederhoffer" not "Neiderhoffer"...................... "
Indeed , I do have the right to criticise him as does any responsible person . He put himself up as an elite trader and fell on his face , that is the consequence he must accept , if he does not then he has no business trading in the 1st place.
perhaps someone is jealous of the points I make and hence defends fo the undefendable.
oh yes , your time would be better spent understanding what is real risk rather than spotting meaningless typos.
cheers 🙂
" someone who has access to hundreds of millions, even after a blow up, maybe a figure of fun to some - but is a pretty serious player to me - i personally dont like his style of trading - but he has had a lot of happy investors over the years who have made millions thanks to him. "
oh yeah right , tell that to the others who lost millions because of him . if you blow millions after having made millions , you have no risk control and are nothing but a gambler and should be exposed as one .
this is only applies if you have unlimted time and $ - theorectical BS . for people living in the real world , real time meaningful measurements are necessary.
" as such I wouldn't presume to take the p..ss out of someone like Niederhoffer especially when I couldn't even take the trouble to learn how to spell his name correctly . For clarity "Niederhoffer" not "Neiderhoffer"...................... "
Indeed , I do have the right to criticise him as does any responsible person . He put himself up as an elite trader and fell on his face , that is the consequence he must accept , if he does not then he has no business trading in the 1st place.
perhaps someone is jealous of the points I make and hence defends fo the undefendable.
oh yes , your time would be better spent understanding what is real risk rather than spotting meaningless typos.
cheers 🙂
" someone who has access to hundreds of millions, even after a blow up, maybe a figure of fun to some - but is a pretty serious player to me - i personally dont like his style of trading - but he has had a lot of happy investors over the years who have made millions thanks to him. "
oh yeah right , tell that to the others who lost millions because of him . if you blow millions after having made millions , you have no risk control and are nothing but a gambler and should be exposed as one .
What to do ?
Hi There,
I was wondering if could give me your opinion on a deal I have been offere by a prop firm. The split is 50/50. They will back me 100%. I dont need to put penny of own money. Cost of a round trip on Liffe is going to be round £ 1.40. On Eurex its going to cost Eur 2.40. Does this seem reasonable ? Desk fees is round £ 1600 a month with access to one exchange. They will provide me with e-signal and TT platform to trade with. How good do you think this deal is ?
tieler said:
Hi There,
I was wondering if could give me your opinion on a deal I have been offere by a prop firm. The split is 50/50. They will back me 100%. I dont need to put penny of own money. Cost of a round trip on Liffe is going to be round £ 1.40. On Eurex its going to cost Eur 2.40. Does this seem reasonable ? Desk fees is round £ 1600 a month with access to one exchange. They will provide me with e-signal and TT platform to trade with. How good do you think this deal is ?
Stockjunkie
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yes , very quaintly put isn't it ?
high round trips and high rentals = no money of one's own ? Hmmm , and you wonder why the term proprietary trader is abused so much now that it has lost it's meaning .
high round trips and high rentals = no money of one's own ? Hmmm , and you wonder why the term proprietary trader is abused so much now that it has lost it's meaning .
