The Problem with Technical Analysis

wisefoolx

Well-known member
258 9
You is well funny:cheesy:

Me tinks you is a wind up merchant.

Copy and paste my as*e.

You need to tink about the markets more, not waste time with forecasting.

You will be better trying to predict:cheesy:

07651226785. He is great at helping those with anger issues.

G/L with whatever you are trying to achieve.
Oh dear, the trollers are really triggered aren't they ? They don't know their decimals and the difference between $1.00 and $100.0, they trade minnie mouse pennies and think they are Soros ! LOL. Obviously one of the 90 %. If they could " THINK " about what they were doing then they might get somewhere.

HAHAHA !
 

Kaeso

Established member
836 91
The problem with TA is simple, it's in its calculation, which is hardly ever objective and almost always subjective.

Let's take the old example of drawing trend lines...Solution: Use linear regression...

Now let's come to another bugbear of mine RSI. This is supposed to measure changes in the momentum...

So why is it calculated by this concoction:
RSI = 100 - (100 / 1+ RS)
hi WF, interesting thread..

im not sure where you are coming from here.. are you saying you are more of a systems trader using robots and don't like discretionary trading? (genuine question)

why does TA need to be objective? good teachers of the subject would not give you the impression that its objective, that wouldn't be accurate no

the calculation of RSI is maths, its objective, it measures what it measures. Who says its an objective measure of market momentum? not a good teacher of TA
 
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tomorton

Legendary member
7,563 1,035
hi WF, interesting thread..

im not sure where you are coming from here.. are you saying you are more of a systems trader using robots and don't like discretionary trading? (genuine question)

why does TA need to be objective? good teachers of the subject would not give you the impression that its objective, that wouldn't be accurate no

the calculation of RSI is maths, its objective, it measures what it measures. Who says its an objective measure of market momentum? no good teacher of TA

Its a good try Kaeso to get to the heart of the argument but its not going to go anywhere.

Vehement critics of TA set it up as something which it is not, they set it up to do something which it cannot do. Then they can easily knock it down and say "Ha-ha, TA doesn't work and I've proved it!" Even highly reputable authors and organisations are guilty of this sort of trick. What they can then criticise is a TA method that no winning trader uses, so of course they can say it doesn't work.

TA's like any sort of tool - used wrongly it won't work, used correctly it will.
 

Kaeso

Established member
836 91
Its a good try Kaeso to get to the heart of the argument but its not going to go anywhere..
cheers :cheesy:

Vehement critics of TA set it up as something which it is not, they set it up to do something which it cannot do. Then they can easily knock it down and say "Ha-ha, TA doesn't work and I've proved it!" Even highly reputable authors and organisations are guilty of this sort of trick. What they can then criticise is a TA method that no winning trader uses, so of course they can say it doesn't work.
TA's like any sort of tool - used wrongly it won't work, used correctly it will.
youve seen this in some detail then, nicely put thanks
 

wisefoolx

Well-known member
258 9
hi WF, interesting thread..
No, not really , if it were you would not have misquoted me.

im not sure where you are coming from here.. are you saying you are more of a systems trader using robots and don't like discretionary trading? (genuine question)
You need to re-read original post, never saind anything about " robots ".

why does TA need to be objective? good teachers of the subject would not give you the impression that its objective, that wouldn't be accurate no
Once again, this has been dealt with but I will c&p if you insist:

A future price is a number in the future which is itself based on numbers. Therefore why should we not use the calculation of number to analyse prices (maths which is objective) ?

the calculation of RSI is maths, its objective, it measures what it measures. Who says its an objective measure of market momentum? not a good teacher of TA
Momentum is a concept well establish in physics and is calculated by p = m * v, where is p = momentum , m = mass and v = velocity.

What not use that instead of something concocted by Welles Wilder ?
 

wisefoolx

Well-known member
258 9
hi WF, interesting thread..

im not sure where you are coming from here.. are you saying you are more of a systems trader using robots and don't like discretionary trading? (genuine question)

why does TA need to be objective? good teachers of the subject would not give you the impression that its objective, that wouldn't be accurate no

the calculation of RSI is maths, its objective, it measures what it measures. Who says its an objective measure of market momentum? not a good teacher of TA
Its a good try Kaeso to get to the heart of the argument but its not going to go anywhere.

Vehement critics of TA set it up as something which it is not, they set it up to do something which it cannot do. Then they can easily knock it down and say "Ha-ha, TA doesn't work and I've proved it!" Even highly reputable authors and organisations are guilty of this sort of trick. What they can then criticise is a TA method that no winning trader uses, so of course they can say it doesn't work.

TA's like any sort of tool - used wrongly it won't work, used correctly it will.

Give me one quote where I have said " TA doesn't work " , don't put words in my mouth, thank you.

Tea leaves , crystal balls and even TA may work .... so what ?
 

wisefoolx

Well-known member
258 9
cheers :cheesy:



youve seen this in some detail then, nicely put thanks
All the mutual glad handing and other kinds of handing won't hide the fact that you made up your mind on this topic even before I replied you, so what is the point of even asking me a question ?

The troller inside you is beginning to show.
 

barjon

Legendary member
10,361 1,594
.........A future price is a number in the future which is itself based on numbers. Therefore why should we not use the calculation of number to analyse prices (maths which is objective) ?



Momentum is a concept well establish in physics and is calculated by p = m * v, where is p = momentum , m = mass and v = velocity...........
I'm assuming that you do want to discuss rather than just have us accept your assertion without question.

It seems to me that we are all looking for momentum but, so far as I know, there is no decent indicator like a speedo or rev counter to help us. Watching how price is moving is probably the best we've got.

I don't think any mathematical formula is going to help, particular since you'd be hard pressed to define the variables - what's "mass" for example. Furthermore, if price movement can be reduced to formulaic mathematics then the mathematicians would have had the market cracked long ago. There's no evidence that they have.
 

wisefoolx

Well-known member
258 9
I'm assuming that you do want to discuss rather than just have us accept your assertion without question.

It seems to me that we are all looking for momentum but, so far as I know, there is no decent indicator like a speedo or rev counter to help us. Watching how price is moving is probably the best we've got.

I don't think any mathematical formula is going to help, particular since you'd be hard pressed to define the variables - what's "mass" for example. Furthermore, if price movement can be reduced to formulaic mathematics then the mathematicians would have had the market cracked long ago. There's no evidence that they have.
It'd be a start. I wasn't going to say this publically but how about volume for mass... ? Mathematicians know maths but they don't know the markets , you need both. Also they tend to use statistics and not maths.
 

wallstreetwarrior87

Experienced member
1,884 354
Mass = volume
Volume = decision
Decision = Reason

There for, without an understanding of reason, volume (mass) = nothing of value.

Whether it be mathematical, objective, subjective.
 

EnlightenedJoe

Experienced member
1,950 95
Forget all this sh*t and just bet £30/point should get things moving in a jiffy. I guarantee it, and you won't have time for math after that.
 

tomorton

Legendary member
7,563 1,035
Give me one quote where I have said " TA doesn't work " , don't put words in my mouth, thank you.

Tea leaves , crystal balls and even TA may work .... so what ?

I refer back to the title of the thread and the first line of your opening post. You spent the bulk of that post criticising trend lines and RSI. I already said I agreed with reservations on the use of these two tools but you haven't gone on to explain in any depth how your approach works better.

As you so curtly said to me, "please re-read".

Obviously, your anti-TA bias is further revealed as you rank TA alongside tea leaves and crystal balls.
 

barjon

Legendary member
10,361 1,594
It'd be a start. I wasn't going to say this publically but how about volume for mass... ? Mathematicians know maths but they don't know the markets , you need both. Also they tend to use statistics and not maths.
Ok, so rate of change (?) of price (or some other definition) x volume = momentum. Mmmm, maybe.

For me, directional momentum is one way traffic - minimal pullbacks before charging off again. Therefore, I don't see volatile price as having any directional momentum even when it has changed hugely from 10am to 11am (or whatever period) during which time it may have hit the highs and lows several times. As DBP has it, price is continuous and that change would just be an accident of timing.
 

Kaeso

Established member
836 91
No, not really , if it were you would not have misquoted me. You need to re-read original post, never saind anything about " robots ". Once again, this has been dealt with but I will c&p if you insist: Momentum is a concept well establish in physics and is calculated by p = m * v, where is p = momentum , m = mass and v = velocity.What not use that instead of something concocted by Welles Wilder ? Give me one quote where I have said " TA doesn't work " , don't put words in my mouth, thank you.Tea leaves , crystal balls and even TA may work .... so what ?.All the mutual glad handing and other kinds of handing won't hide the fact that you made up your mind on this topic even before I replied you, so what is the point of even asking me a question ? The troller inside you is beginning to show
ok no actual answers to the questions just more confused babbling.. ill leave you to it
 

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