The Great Global Warming Swindle

Atilla said:
Has everyone heard they are talking about £400 road tax on 4 wheelies... :cheesy:

Delighted with that news.

Hopefuly it will get all the mummies off the bloody pavements in front of school gates.

If I had it my way I would whack on £1K. :devilish:

I hope they do this, and its only fair after all. The road hogging Range Rover show off brigade take up more road space than most other car users. Make them pay more for it, this is absolutely fair.

Cheap for them at double the price!
 
JTrader said:
I hope they do this, and its only fair after all. The road hogging Range Rover show off brigade take up more road space than most other car users. Make them pay more for it, this is absolutely fair.

Cheap for them at double the price!

not defending them, but:

they have to pay more for their vehicles than "normal" cars, due to their size, and they also buy more fuel, (eg, more duty) each time they use them.

dont forget the price of petrol is about 25-30p a litre. the rest is just fuel duty, straight into Golden Browns coffers.

governments are just the mafia with good PR.

EDIT: also, lets not fall into the "divide and conquer" trap, and start fighting amongst each other, and forget its the big business/govts/taxes that are the bad-guys.
 
Bigbusiness said:
I don't believe that our politicians care about GW. If they did, why are we still using diesel when we could be using vegetable oil? I was shocked when I first found out about this.

David Cameron mentioned it but wouldn't it be a better policy to reduce the fuel tax for vegetable oil rather than increase it for aviation fuel? People will still fly but they might change to vegetable oil, if there was an incentive.

http://www.ravenfamily.org/andyg/vegoil.htm

hmm, I like the idea of the exhaust fumes smelling like a doughnut machine output :) .

Has anyone tried this idea or, know a Friend who has ?
 
Crap Buddist said:
hmm, I like the idea of the exhaust fumes smelling like a doughnut machine output :) .

Has anyone tried this idea or, know a Friend who has ?

read about this a while ago.
there are websites that sell converters for diesel engines, so they run off veg-oil.
( veg-oil is more viscous, so the timing and carb needs tweaking).

you are (legally?) required to keep a log book of miles travelled, and pay the extra duty.

didnt the original diesel engines, ages ago, burn peanut oil?

EDIT: sorry for taking this off-topic!
 
trendie said:
not defending them, but:

they have to pay more for their vehicles than "normal" cars, due to their size, and they also buy more fuel, (eg, more duty) each time they use them.

dont forget the price of petrol is about 25-30p a litre. the rest is just fuel duty, straight into Golden Browns coffers.

governments are just the mafia with good PR.

EDIT: also, lets not fall into the "divide and conquer" trap, and start fighting amongst each other, and forget its the big business/govts/taxes that are the bad-guys.

Range Rover, Porsche, etc. SUV drivers are mainly footballers, celebrities. gangsters & the nuvo rich - they can afford it!

The only real reason I dislike these vehicles is that they do pollute more than your average family car, and i am sick of being forced into the ditch, when i come head to head with one of these things, down country lanes etc. The drivers of them become arrogant bullies.

If money was no object, I'd probably by something along those lines myself though.......
 
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trendie said:
not defending them, but:

they have to pay more for their vehicles than "normal" cars, due to their size, and they also buy more fuel, (eg, more duty) each time they use them.

dont forget the price of petrol is about 25-30p a litre. the rest is just fuel duty, straight into Golden Browns coffers.

governments are just the mafia with good PR.

EDIT: also, lets not fall into the "divide and conquer" trap, and start fighting amongst each other, and forget its the big business/govts/taxes that are the bad-guys.

Sorry Trendie, but it sounds like you are defending them. :confused:

I do agree with your point but my view is somebody has to pay and why not 4 wheelies as they have the dosh. Just like people who fly. Most people don't drive more than 3-15m during their day.

Do we really need a juggernaut to take the kids to school and do a little bit of shopping at Tescos?

Nothing personal on 4 wheely drivers, just good tax based on the ability to pay on someone who is has more money then sense... :cheesy:
 
JTrader said:
Range Rover, Porsche, etc. SUV drivers are mainly footballers, celebrities and gangsters - they can afford it!

The only real reason I dislike these vehicles is that they do pollute more than your average family car, and i am sick of being forced into the ditch in my Vectra, when i come head to head with one of these things, down country lanes etc. The drivers of them become arrogant bullies.

If money was no object, I'd probably by something along those lines myself though.......

I have that perception too for some reason. They are making a statement. Cheaper to have their bank balances tattooed on their forehead... :LOL:

However, even if I had the money I wouldn't buy one of those cars based on principal.
 
trendie said:
read about this a while ago.
there are websites that sell converters for diesel engines, so they run off veg-oil.
( veg-oil is more viscous, so the timing and carb needs tweaking).

you are (legally?) required to keep a log book of miles travelled, and pay the extra duty.

didnt the original diesel engines, ages ago, burn peanut oil?

EDIT: sorry for taking this off-topic!

well, it suggested it helps with output emissions reduction, so its on topic i'd say . However on the link Big business posted, they suggest you can mix directly by diluting your current diesel fuel, 30/50 % mix veg oil to diesel, just shove the oil in the fuel tank and it will thin out and mix with the diesel, and it says you just need to register with Gov. as a small user and pay the tax on using veg oil monthly, so a saving it suugests of upto 50 %, may be possible.
 
Posted by Atilla..

So who is dishing out the money and who is making the money?

These are the questions ........ and finally ...."how do we/I get a piece of the action ?" :cheesy:
 
Hook Shot said:
Posted by Atilla..



These are the questions ........ and finally ...."how do we/I get a piece of the action ?" :cheesy:

I was referring to the program makers taking and making the money with that quote.

US oil industry dished out the money hiding behind right wing conservative... They also dished out the incorrect stats and measurements.

The contreversial program maker takes and makes the money. Irrespective of whether it's a quality production or not. The fact that it's making headlines is what they are after and people like us talking about their programs.

As the saying goes all publicity is good publicity.

However, whether it's the solar panel producers, organic farmers, wind turbine manufacturers doesn't matter it's all good business.

On the taxation front, most of the tax or extreme tax can be avoided by positioning one self appropriately. Not sure why so many people are up in arms about it. Don't drive - cycle, don't drink alcohol - but tea, don't fly - take the scenic route by train or boat, don't smoke. Exist and be healthy and enjoy lots of nookie and be happy. :cheesy:
 
"i am sick of being forced into the ditch in my Vectra"....LOL so that was you was it, sorry but the side draft kicked out by this monster is ferocious....
I drive a brute ...like sh..it off a stick ..flies ..guzzles ....nobody likes me in it...and I couldn't care less if the fumes are choking everybody else ..I love the feeling driving it fast brings ....sick of hearing all the whingeing and bellyaching from peeps who basically would love one if they could afford it....on the bright side I also cycle ;) (when I've run out of points)
should I mention i take lots of short flights also ,or have I already won this years award for for enviromental enemy No.1

GBW ,carbon tax and the greenwelly lobby are going to be this decades story of let's frighten the little people into giving us more tax to waste on god knows what. Let them get on with it..
I ignore it all .
 
chump said:
"i am sick of being forced into the ditch in my Vectra"....LOL so that was you was it, sorry but the side draft kicked out by this monster is ferocious....
I drive a brute ...like sh..it off a stick ..flies ..guzzles ....nobody likes me in it...and I couldn't care less if the fumes are choking everybody else ..I love the feeling driving it fast brings ....sick of hearing all the whingeing and bellyaching from peeps who basically would love one if they could afford it....on the bright side I also cycle ;) (when I've run out of points)
should I mention i take lots of short flights also ,or have I already won this years award for for enviromental enemy No.1

GBW ,carbon tax and the greenwelly lobby are going to be this decades story of let's frighten the little people into giving us more tax to waste on god knows what. Let them get on with it..
I ignore it all .

How predictable. :LOL:

And true to form... :devilish:
 
I HAVE A 2005 VOLKSWAGEN TOUAREG 2.5 TDI SE Sport :eek:

And yes the wife does use it for school trips....But G/W is a myth
 
laptop1 said:
I HAVE A 2005 VOLKSWAGEN TOUAREG 2.5 TDI SE Sport :eek:

And yes the wife does use it for school trips....But G/W is a myth

Just out of curiousity Laptop1, how far is the school to your house?

Nothing personal to you or Chump, just a national survey kinda thing...
 
Atilla said:
Just out of curiousity Laptop1, how far is the school to your house?

Nothing personal to you or Chump, just a national survey kinda thing...
7 Miles away...I drive a Golf..The wife is the one who drives the TOUAREG
 
Oh goody, it looks like chump can afford to increase my gardening wages. :)

It is often more rewarding to be presented with an argument one fundamentally disagrees with than have ones views comfortably reinforced. So while I gladly welcome rational argument against what is now a distastefully religious green movement (with non-believers seemingly vilified and suppressed), this trio of links about the aforementioned swindling & specious slice of anti-GW rhetoric in my view throws it out of contention:

(links quite similar, perhaps choose one or two)

http://inthegreen.typepad.com/blog/2007/03/deconstructing_.html
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/03/swindled/
http://www.climatedenial.org/

A misleading polemic, then, not a thorough scientific refutation at all. So in this case gentle vilification is imho entirely justified, as long as it is directed at the content not the idea of dissent itself.

But it piqued my interest in the subject. I found this frighteningly comprehensive blog "How to talk to a global warming sceptic". Fortunately it is split into easily digestible parts and littered with source references.

http://gristmill.grist.org/skeptics

After that and some other light digging I must say I am, as I was before, convinced, worried and mildly guilty about GW and my contribution to it, though not as panic-stricken as some might like. Like many, I'll do my bit to live cleanly (at least as far as I can understand the implications of my actions - the web of consequences runs deep) up to the point where practical inconvenience outweighs the salve to my conscience. I doubt that is enough, though, which is a problem (time to acquire speculative plots of cheap Icelandic real estate? :))

I dug up some graphs, although sadly they stop at 2000.

CO2 by category; CO2 per country; Types of energy
CO2 per capita; Greenhouse gases by type

Ideally of course we reduce emissions in all categories, but it struck me that switching wholesale to nuclear power would be easier, less objectionable (to us - though I may underestimate the irrational fears it is apt to induce) and far more effective than, say, chipping ineffectually away at the fringes of transport. There seems to me to be a disproportionate effort concentrated on the evils of transport when a greater % of CO2 belches out of power stations. In fact there seems to be a general concentration on topical details (wince at a bit of superfluous packaging here, pop in a low energy lightbulb there, tax the gas guzzler everywhere) at the expense of more expansive systemic remedies such as nuclear (& other non fossil) power. Nuclear power stations can make hydrogen for transport by the way and act as desalination plants. I'm not denying that every little counts, for a second, I just think there are bigger fish to fry too.

There's the pesky issue of the nuclear waste of course. Half the dengenerate atoms are still partying after 500 years. But afaik a minuscule amount of it is produced compared to the land we have in which to bury it, deep down in a safely sealed glass case. Is that so bad? I dare say the cost of conversion would soon be recouped in the reduced running costs too (no more expensive oil to pay for) but I admit that is only a guess. So why are we not more reliant on nuclear energy? I know I'm woefully ignorant, but it does seem a blindingly obvious thing to go for. Typing with thirteen fingers is just an added bonus.

Edit: I later found a couple of threads on this subject. Apart from one or two excessively rabid treehuggers the content is solid and very convincing (for me) in favour of nuclear.

http://www.foe.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2496.0.html
http://www.foe.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1507.0.html

Incidentally, it is dangerously easy to employ the pointy finger against a certain obvious group the majority dislikes. SUV drivers are a wildly popular target and I suspect as much of an emotional as a rational one; for some reason they're easy to hate and it feels righteous to do so. The government knows this which is why the 4x4 tag is so emphasised in their tax scheme, despite the fact that of the 290 vehicle models that fall into bend over band G, only 35 are actual 4x4 off roaders. But we cheer cause all we see is the headline inconveniencing of the given hated minority.

How many of us have actually added up all the unpleasant things we do to the earth and its creatures during the course of a daily, realist life? There are many less obvious crimes than ttaking up more room on the road and using amore petrol to do it, even if the pushy fur gilet and accent that could notch wood may grate. The virtuous beard who cycles 10 miles to buy an extra metre of biodegradable loft insulation might sit down to feast upon battery chicken then decide to rear several children. But that's another topic. My point is just that it is easier to accuse than examine in detail our own behaviour, especially when the environmental consequences of some of our actions are so difficult to fathom. If the car journey is >3 miles is it better to recycle 5 wine bottles or bury them in the neighbour's garden? Do I allow the cat to provide 10% of our electricity only to learn that the production of the extra food and amphetamines needed for this required 11%?

However what is worse than finger pointing is the fatalism that seems to be growing in popularity. "There's nothing we can do, it's all too complicated, the science is probably wrong, they're just finding another reason to tax us, even if we change the Chinese won't and who are we to suppress their development etc.... therefore let's not change our comfortable lives one iota and see what happens." Fact is, there is plenty we can do, even though for most of us a practical level of self-flagellation is unlikely to be sufficient for the most ascetic treehugger. Anyway I don't want to lecture, as I'm certainly no saint.

Finally as ever a humorous emission from Boris, who recommends we spifflicate some cows, provided a welcome tonic to this casual, erm, air-freighted bottle of superficial wine led introspection. :)

http://www.boris-johnson.com/archives/2007/01/greenhouse_gases.php

He's got a point about the methane, although it lingers in the atmosphere for only 10% of the time that CO2 does. Expect a new tax on steak any time now. And one on fun soon after.
 

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laptop1 said:
7 Miles away...I drive a Golf..The wife is the one who drives the TOUAREG

Well that is a considerable distance. Can't argue against 7 miles.

Be interesting what happens on Wednesday re: Road Tax.

I think Chump is enjoying him self too much and should be taxed for the pleasurable use of her Majesties highways... Funny how I didn't think much of Gordon Brown and his taxes but I may make an exception to this one... ;)
 
Atilla said:
Well that is a considerable distance. Can't argue against 7 miles.

Be interesting what happens on Wednesday re: Road Tax.

I think Chump is enjoying him self too much and should be taxed for the pleasurable use of her Majesties highways... Funny how I didn't think much of Gordon Brown and his taxes but I may make an exception to this one... ;)
Its Private School. I don't want them to follow me, I couldn't read or write in School I suffered from dyslexic. I aways thought they were taking the p1ss when naming it dyslexic :cheesy: ..However, I am good with figures, and good with patterns recognition, this has help my trading, but the speeeeeeeling has improved over the years, but I still get some days where (There will look like The or they) :eek: , spell check helps though. ;)
 
laptop1 said:
Its Private School. I don't want them to follow me, I couldn't read or write in School I suffered from dyslexic. I aways thought they were taking the p1ss when naming it dyslexic :cheesy: ..However, I am good with figures, and good with patterns recognition, this has help my trading, but the speeeeeeeling has improved over the years, but I still get some days where (There will look like The or they) :eek: , spell check helps though. ;)

I've heard in many cases where the brain has deficiency in one area it compensate by being over developed in another. Fascinating.

That means you're a kind of mutant and have special powers. I reckon it puts you in the X-Men league...
 
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