Thank you

mr_cassandra

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I honestly don't remember who, but some here at the T2W community once suggested I place my work at collective2.com.

This worked out very well for me and I just wanted to say thanks.
 
I honestly don't remember who, but some here at the T2W community once suggested I place my work at collective2.com.

This worked out very well for me and I just wanted to say thanks.

O.k, found it. Thanks.

Any one wants to see take a look it's called mvp-3 at collective2.com

mr_cassandra sent a PM with the details and didn't wish to put it here for reasons of a possible shill, but theres no harm in me doing it. Once its been viewed I dont believe anyone could argue with the results.

Very interesting stuff. Welldone.
 
Fascinating website! The punters' comments all seem to give the impression that they think a decent system will be perfectly consistent.

But then maybe the punters are deliberately trying to scare the other punters away from systems they are using.

Shame there was no way of searching for the oldest running system. That would be interesting.
 
There IS a way. Over at the left of the main page click on THE GRID, when the grid screen comes up click on AGE and they will sort by oldest.

You hit on a crucial point that there are many angry, disappointed reviews wherein the user subscribed and a signal lost money. They should almost have a mandatory front screen explaining that ALL systems will have losers and drawdowns, the key issue is where does it lead you over time THRU and INCLUDING those losers and drawdowns.

Fascinating website! The punters' comments all seem to give the impression that they think a decent system will be perfectly consistent.

But then maybe the punters are deliberately trying to scare the other punters away from systems they are using.

Shame there was no way of searching for the oldest running system. That would be interesting.
 
I honestly don't remember who, but some here at the T2W community once suggested I place my work at collective2.com.

This worked out very well for me and I just wanted to say thanks.

was it me?:LOL:

I've generally sent system developers in that direction.

Well done, BTW steve.

Any chance of a free sub?:whistling

Cheers,
UTB
 
Fascinating website! The punters' comments all seem to give the impression that they think a decent system will be perfectly consistent.

But then maybe the punters are deliberately trying to scare the other punters away from systems they are using.

Shame there was no way of searching for the oldest running system. That would be interesting.

Adam,

I'd save the trouble - suffice to say that most systems blow up within a short period.

MVP has done really well considering it als had 6 months pre birth on a Yahoo group.

IMO, it stands the best chance of success as it is sentiment based - so though the rules may be mechanical the data that feeds them isn't necessarily.

UTB
 
if I had time I would have looked, so thanks for the warning. Actually I can imagine Paul Tudor Jones might be using the site to test out his theory that he can publish a profitable system and people would still lose money.

It's comic-tragic that even if the whole website only had profitable systems, people would probably jump from system to system losing money on each one!
 
Why NO system or method will ever be universally used.

Adam, this is an old post of mine but I have seen every single instance listed occur in real life.

I read somewhere recently that any particular strategy will be skewed if it becomes popular enough and enough people start using it.
That is indeed a widespread belief or concept. It is one of many that are often repeated by the financial media, another one is 'you can't time the market'.

I think it does not take into account the huge effect human nature plays in its application. I've been developing a computer program that governs my trading since late 2000 and in discussions with other developers and users since then I have experienced many scenarios of human nature that would prevent any system or method from becoming so widespread that it would invalidate itself. Below is a list of factors of human nature that would be involved.

1. The myth that any system or method can catch every point of every move every time. If any system or method had even one loss or drawdown, this would cause X percent of followers to drop off in search of a better one. If this happened on their first trade X would become a larger percent. If there were two losers in a row, I?ve seen enough posts over the years to know there would be a large exodus.
2. Along the same theme, if the system buys or sells and misses any possible further gain, another X percent would become discouraged.
3. Along the way, you will also get people who 2nd guess the system, and thereby miss trades and get discouraged. This also involves media coverage making them discouraged or too optimistic versus what the program is telling them.
4. The 2nd guessing can also take the form of pure disagreement with the system, for instance if it said to buy at a major market low when things looked especially gloomy or vice versa during euphoria periods.
5. How much work will it take also eliminates anther X percent of possible system users. To illustrate this, here?s an example. Early versions of my program took me 5 minutes per day to update. I had several people ask me if there was any way to automate that so they wouldn?t have to spend 5 minutes per day. Think about it.
6. You would also loss another X percent of investors due to 'the grass is greener on the other side' syndrome, wherein they would drop off to chase a different system that looked better. Your point exactly Adam
7. another X percent of people out there are religiously convinced it can't be done at all; to the extent they will steadfastly refuse to even look at trade receipts. Over the years I've seen about 75% of the people who respond just quote some sound bite they once heard saying 'you can't time the market' or must be curve-fit etc etc. When you press them for details, many times it turns out they have done little or no work on their own, just read an article once by a broker who said so. If I talk to 50 people, I get perhaps 5 that actually will do the diligence.
8. others feel that dollar cost averaging is the only way to go. (never having done the math)
9. Others are all hung up on management fees to the extent that they will ignore a 20% fund with 2% fees in favor of a 14% fund with 1% fees, because a sound bite told them fees are everything.
10. others will get all hung up with macro bear or bull projections and miss all the intermediate moves a system could produce for them, sometimes ending up on the wrong side of an entire run.
11. It takes money to make money, so if it takes $5,000 to trade a given system, how many potential users did you just eliminate?
12. How many people will make some excuse to withdraw their money because they want a new sofa? (or fill in the blank)

I've seen variants of this idea saying that if any one indicator was all that useful, everyone would follow it and it would become useless. In particular I've seen this said about the vix. Yet, it is as useful to my program today as it has been at any other time since the first back-tested trade in 1996.

In part, I think that is because it measures fear levels translated into option premiums and as such is a guage of the crowd. As a mass effect, the crowd is highly consistent, decade over decade.

I've been at this since late 2000 to correct my own gross inability to be a trader by using my career abilities as a programmer and fascination with contrarian indicators into a program which removed 'me' from the picture.

In short, unless it delivers 10% per month to their account in a bank with zero risk, I say no system or indicator will ever become that widespread


if I had time I would have looked, so thanks for the warning. Actually I can imagine Paul Tudor Jones might be using the site to test out his theory that he can publish a profitable system and people would still lose money.

It's comic-tragic that even if the whole website only had profitable systems, people would probably jump from system to system losing money on each one!
 
Blades is right, Adam

Most do blow up after making an initial splash. It is extremely hard to lay in a set of mechanical rules that will last thru bull mkts, bear mkts and trading range mkts.

Harder still is wading thru all the disinformation both published, posted , quoted and broadcast.

You have to be willing to think outside the box and go check all input for yourself and definitely not accept any book or person at face value on this subject.

For instance, I once had a woman on a board tell me with great assurance that you can't use vix in a system because it changes ranges dramatically. What an excellent half-truth.

A more constructive statement might have been : to use vix effectively, you will need to find a way to compensate for its range changes, no ?

Anyway, best bet is to ask them for a constructive suggestion to offset their reason XYZ won't work or to tell you about their own work. The answer will tell you a lot about the depth (or lack thereof) of their knowledge.

Unless you can apply independent critical thinking to the blizzrd of pontifcations out there on this subject, you can get easily derailed by it all,never mind the daunting task of building a rule set.



Adam,

I'd save the trouble - suffice to say that most systems blow up within a short period.

MVP has done really well considering it als had 6 months pre birth on a Yahoo group.

IMO, it stands the best chance of success as it is sentiment based - so though the rules may be mechanical the data that feeds them isn't necessarily.

UTB
 
Was doing some aimless browsing last night and noticed on COLLECTIVE2 that this system has taken some serious bad hits recently, Aug -9.4%, Sept -33.3% and Oct currently -8.2%. Looking at the graph of it's performance is enough to give you a heart condition. Must have wiped some out. Very sad.
 
Hardly surprising considering the turbulence in the markets at the moment.
 
Fascinating website! The punters' comments all seem to give the impression that they think a decent system will be perfectly consistent.

But then maybe the punters are deliberately trying to scare the other punters away from systems they are using.

Shame there was no way of searching for the oldest running system. That would be interesting.

You hit on a key point of human psychology. From my 8 years experiences doing this type of work, I've found that no matter how many real world cautions people are given, somewhere inside, a part of them really thinks there is a way to get every point every time.
 
Ah, human nature! I does give me faith though that I might actually be able to make some money after all, if there are so many people just giving it away like that.
 
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