Tell the truth.Who does/doesnt make consistent trading profits.R U even a net winner?

[Priceman]

Mind your own f'in business!

JT, as it's you i'll reply.

I am now mostly consistently profitable. I still need to tidy things up. I can tell you my percent win rate on average is around 75-80%. Until I earn back all that I've put into trading though I would not say I am a net winner. That includes the value of the time that I'm putting in and the cash 'invested' in courses, books, DVDs, etc. For me it's the time more than the others that I value most.

- Highest was 95% in one month.
- Lowest when I had a lapse in concentration was 48%.
- Longest losing run 4 days in a month.
- Longest winning run 12 days in a month.

Biggest hurdles for me (same as most probably)
- Let the winners run and cut the losers quickly.
- Working a full-time job and trying to trade (just don't tell my boss :whistling.
- Staying out of a trade that doesn't look worth the R:R

Now that's all ya gettin so no point asking for more information coz you ain't getting it! I have no interest whether people here believe me or not and I certainly am not going to prove anything to anyone!

All the best

 

[JTrader]

JT, as it's you i'll reply.

I am now mostly consistently profitable. I still need to tidy things up. I can tell you my percent win rate on average is around 75-80%. Until I earn back all that I've put into trading though I would not say I am a net winner. That includes the value of the time that I'm putting in and the cash 'invested' in courses, books, DVDs, etc. For me it's the time more than the others that I value most.

- Highest was 95% in one month.
- Lowest when I had a lapse in concentration was 48%.
- Longest losing run 4 days in a month.
- Longest winning run 12 days in a month.

Biggest hurdles for me (same as most probably)
- Let the winners run and cut the losers quickly.- Working a full-time job and trying to trade (just don't tell my boss :whistling.
- Staying out of a trade that doesn't look worth the R:R

Now that's all ya gettin so no point asking for more information coz you ain't getting it! I have no interest whether people here believe me or not and I certainly am not going to prove anything to anyone!

All the best

Exactly.

for me to do this - you need a firm grasp of S/R.

With all the dazzling mutli-coloured indicator overlays etc. that i see posted here, usually accompnaied by a lack of consideration and understanding of S/R, and i find it hard to see how these guys can profit.

I understand S/R S&D inside out, and see it on each one of my charts, yet still struggle..........


Mind your own f'in business!

twas meant to be like an AA meeting!

 

[barryb]

Consistent? No

Net winner? Yes

Do i care if there's only 12 consistent t2w traders here? No, because this is a zero sum game and i need to make a living ;-).

 

[JTrader]

Consistent? No

Net winner? Yes

Do i care if there's only 12 consistent t2w traders here? No, because this is a zero sum game and i need to make a living ;-).

Like i said, 12 was just a guess, and maybe it was being a bit generous at that.

He who asks is a fool for 5 minutes he who never asjs is a fool for life.

I ask these questions so you don't have to!

I want to find out the TRUTH!

Maybe this thread would reveal that we are all f'ing struggling, and that there are LESS THAN 12 profitable T2W traders!!!
In which case, we might all decide fukc that! we're wasting our time, pisz off, and leave someone else to turn out ther lights!

 

[bbmac]

So Only two traders so far admitting to having gained profitable consistency from their trading. I will be the third, with the following additional information.

When I started trading I did so using a system that was pretty consistent although I didn't trade it for very long. The lack of intraday action gave rise to my development of a system/methodology that more accurately matched my style/preferences and tolerances. The system/methodology was the basis of the more refined system/methodology I trade today, and looking back, whilst I was consistently profitable, It was a dangerous way to trade and it was probably more by luck than judgement that I didn't have any detstabilising losses that threatened that consistency.

As one who hammers home the message about the potential benefits to probability of confluence, ironically...a confluence of two fairly simultaneous 'events,' one being my niaive attempts to refine the system/methodology led to a period of small gains, small losses that overall resulted in a small loss (less than 10% on a/c) Having taken time to reflect and and refine the system/methodology further I began to regain my consistency and have achieved this for upwards of 2 years. Earlier this year I attempted again part of the other event [that formed part of the confluence of 2 events referred to above,] and this led me to lose my consistency again, nothing serious just small gains small losses with a loss on account of less than 5%. Having reflected again and altered the way I was working, I have again regained that consistency in the last month or two. I should stress that on both these occassions it was me more than the system/methodology that lost consistency in that I was coming out of profitable trades too early, or not enetering them at all.

Incidentally I am about to attempt this 'event' for a third time because I deem it necessary to what I wish to achieve from my trading career. I am more confident that I can achieve a positive outcome than ever before, and have changed the way i have approached it based on my experiences,..but there are no guarantees. Based on the past 2 experiences, I won't do much harm if it doesn't happen (ie the downside risks are small) and the upside potential is far greater, so it is worth the effort.

From my experience. it seems to be, that;

a. Sometimes the more you know the more it harms you. ie we all start trading knowing nothing, and the more we learn the worst we seem to become, probably because knowledge can result in fear (so called analysis paralysis etc,) the more you know the more reasons exist to not take a trade or come out too early etc. There is however a corner that can be turned in this respect when knowledge begins to impact positively again.

b. The definition of insanity of doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is so true. If something ain't working for you - change it and see what happens...very often trial and error.

c. Any progress that is made in trading is done so as a result of live market interaction not back testing/curve fitting. All the refinements I have made to my own trading system/methodology have been done after a live test sample of examples in the live realtime market, only implementing the refinement/change should the sample result prove to be advantageous overall. This of course takes time.

d. Consistency is where it is at, not massive gains one day and destabilising losses the next...small unspectacular intraday/intraweek gains add up to attractive p.a gains.

G/L.

 

[TWI]

Forth
I agree, consistency and discipline. I think most people can find a profitable method after some messing about but to be able to trade it and indeed recognising the characteristics of a system that will allow you to trade it is another game entirely.

 

[TomTom]

Making consistant gains through trading ?
Here is my 2 cents worth.
Trading worked well and was profitable when in the 1990s I trades part time while still working.
First Day of fulltime trading I made a years salary all in one go, by the end of week one I was £1K down on my account.
As the years passed I became more skilled, but still had my bad days.
The problems I have had is doing well one day and trying to do the same the next day. Ocassionally it worked but the other 90% of the time I gave back nearly all of the profits.
Today I dont trade every day, I generate most of the income through postion trading for one to two/three days. Between 6 and 12 times per year. This year has been more frequant due to volitile markets.
When I trade for a small amount of time I rent to cut losses fast and trade one index of another.
Example long footsie, short dax, this is bread and butter trade as it wil not make you loads however in the short pieriods of volitility it will give anyone enough $$££ to make a nice living.

From personell expireance trading every day is not the way to do this business if your working form home.

For the past 6 years I have managed to keep al the bills paid and purchased another car have a diecent lifestyle and have 2-3 good holidays per year. All paid for from trading.

8 years ago I must add I was broke and nearly bankrupt as a result of trading
if I had not decided to continue with this business I have no question that I woulld be working in a medium to moderate paid job working 50-60 hrs a week.

We all have to decide do we continue this business or go back to 9-5 jobs or more like 6am till 7pm these days.

 

[advfntrader]

tom tom, interesting. when you hedge with FTSE / DAX do you close both trades at same time and try to get the difference ?

 

[Skill Leverage]

Making consistant gains through trading ?
Here is my 2 cents worth.
Trading worked well and was profitable when in the 1990s I trades part time while still working.
First Day of fulltime trading I made a years salary all in one go, by the end of week one I was £1K down on my account.
As the years passed I became more skilled, but still had my bad days.
The problems I have had is doing well one day and trying to do the same the next day. Ocassionally it worked but the other 90% of the time I gave back nearly all of the profits.
Today I dont trade every day, I generate most of the income through postion trading for one to two/three days. Between 6 and 12 times per year. This year has been more frequant due to volitile markets.
When I trade for a small amount of time I rent to cut losses fast and trade one index of another.
Example long footsie, short dax, this is bread and butter trade as it wil not make you loads however in the short pieriods of volitility it will give anyone enough $$££ to make a nice living.

From personell expireance trading every day is not the way to do this business if your working form home.

For the past 6 years I have managed to keep al the bills paid and purchased another car have a diecent lifestyle and have 2-3 good holidays per year. All paid for from trading.

8 years ago I must add I was broke and nearly bankrupt as a result of trading
if I had not decided to continue with this business I have no question that I woulld be working in a medium to moderate paid job working 50-60 hrs a week.

We all have to decide do we continue this business or go back to 9-5 jobs or more like 6am till 7pm these days.

It might just be me but my bull**** detector goes off the meter whenever this guy posts.

 

[barryb]

The point is, gaining consistency is virtually impossible, as price is far from consistent.

Trying to trade, watching the candles is like trying to capture an unnobtainable object. It is impossible as you are always in its shadow, one step behind. Ever tried catching a fly in your hand......its next to impossible as the moment it sees your shadow, its gone......

As for R:R - use S/R as targets - sure.........But how longs a piece of string??? knowone knows until after its been unwound....

I understand why you're asking this, however i just feel the original post is overly negative. When i used to work for a prop firm, there was nothing more annoying than someone moaning about how hard the markets are, or how impossible it is to trade against the "black boxes". We all know the markets are difficult but there's a point where acknowledging this too much becomes counter productive. I always used to think that if these people don't enjoy the challenge, they should just leave it to the ones who do.

 

[JTrader]

back up to £2001. just made +4p. Left a predictable 22p on the table though - a familiar tale - exiting prematurely due to the negative experience of watching a few signals i didnt trade become winners, and/or trading a couple of signals that then lost, anf then getting spooked out of early of the next decent entry, only to see it win big.

I do this far too often. It is almost funny. I can pretty much pinpoint the bar it will happen on as well. Exit for a a tiny profit - seconds later, price explodes in my predicted direction 20-50 pips!!!! i need to buy that fella murphy a piont!!

To be fair, today is actually day 1!

I have my new multi monitor setup, new desk and my new custom indicator completed. Yesterday was a swine, as is today mostly. tight ranges leading to non ideal setups/ poor R:R.

I still expect to succeed though. the key factors are - letting profits run, don't let a couple of losers put you off the next signal, trade only the best setups that offer good R:R,

recognising the currwent market conditions - are they contracted/ing or expanded/ing....... if they are contracted/ing/tight ranges/gridlocked = best to stay well clear IMO as R:R is very poor as price gets tugged back & forth in a non-clear cut fasdhion!!!

 

[JTrader]

I think that a persons trader psychology will often mirror how they are with everything -

over cauitious
slow decision making
hesitant
indiecisive etc. etc.

maybe if u r like this as a person u will bew like this as a trader. perhaps trading can help the person or changing the person will help the traidng,

 

[JTrader]

You definetly have to know when NOT to trade.

You do this by examining what links your losing trades.

If you realise for example that every losing trade you take are ones that are entered after 5pm then you simply don't trade after 5pm!

This is why keeping a journal of your trades or keeping track by some other means is so essential.

The guy that I was talking about that is so consistent admitted to me that he has difficulty in the afternoons. So what does he do? He simply makes money in the morning and then goes home.

One thing I greatly respected in one of Spanishs' posts was where he realised that the market was unlikely to make a decisive mood and rather than trying to get involved went off and did something else (despite his need to make money to pay for his rent - a ludicrous situation but thats another story lol)

I've lately realised that the vast majority of my trades aren't getting as far as their first target before reversing. It seems like for the last couple of months every trade I take gets up anywhere between 15 - 80 ticks/pips and then reverses on me and stops me out. Now getting up that much on a trade may sound good to some people but with my style of trading it affects my overall profitability.

So what I have done is taken action.

I've requested they put me back on the simulator at work to ride out the storm but also so I can keep my mind active and increase my experience without risking real money and judge when market conditions are better for my style of trading.

At the same time I've pulled all the money out of my personal accounts which means I have nothing in there to trade with. If I see something that looks unmissable (I am eyeing oil and waiting for a test of $41) then I have to go to the bother of transferring funds in to take it.

This stops overtrading where you keep taking all setups (even the average ones) in the hope that things will suddenly come good.

If you are in a hole, stop digging and assess the surroundings.

im starting to think the same tbh.

afternoons are so different to trade compared to mornings, due to the US influence, most of the time. Theres nothing worse than trading through the whole day and giving back some (or more) of all your morning winnings in the afternoon.....if i'd gone "home" 4 hours ago ..........trick is to only trade the best setups, whatever time of day......if they dont arrive DO NOT TRADE!!!!! sit on your hands, buy a vibrator, whateva!

But yes, i think i may well start clocking off b4 the clock strikes 12............

 

[Skill Leverage]

JTrader I know you hate me comparing trading to poker, BUT... in my poker days I would always have both a target and a get-out point (or stop-loss, if you will). If I hit my target in the first hour of play (a rare but pleasant occurrence) I would shut down the PC and go to the gym. Likewise if I lost x buyins I would shut off the PC and get out of the house. I cannot tell you how many destructive sessions I had, where I had either been up a large amount and lost it (and more), or started off badly and chased the loss by playing sub-optimal poker.

If I was psychologically perfect this would not be necessary; however I am very much not, it doesn't take a lot to push me out of the zone, and as such it is only prudent to have such rules in place, and really enforce them - it is one of the best things you can do to eliminate human error from your system.

 

[JTrader]

JTrader I know you hate me comparing trading to poker, BUT... in my poker days I would always have both a target and a get-out point (or stop-loss, if you will). If I hit my target in the first hour of play (a rare but pleasant occurrence) I would shut down the PC and go to the gym. Likewise if I lost x buyins I would shut off the PC and get out of the house. I cannot tell you how many destructive sessions I had, where I had either been up a large amount and lost it (and more), or started off badly and chased the loss by playing sub-optimal poker.

If I was psychologically perfect this would not be necessary; however I am very much not, it doesn't take a lot to push me out of the zone, and as such it is only prudent to have such rules in place, and really enforce them - it is one of the best things you can do to eliminate human error from your system.

Actually, poker quite interests me in itself.

how much is it possible to make plying poker online? realistically if you are pretty good?

is the earning potential unlimited?

does it depend on you capital risk "per game"?

whats the best place to play online poker???

cheers.

I dont know how to play poker at the moment, but........

 

[Skill Leverage]

Don't want to take this off-topic as people are clearly interested, so I'll start a new thread.

 

[Hoggums]

On the subject of when not to trade - for me as an index trader...

Between 10 - 11:30 - usually little movement or lots of false signals.
Between 14:00 - 15:00 - choppy us market open, false signals galore.

Best times are -
(UK)
9am - 10am, 12-2 and 8pm-9pm. Very often it's worth jumping on any established trend in the US around 5pm before going home and seeing a nice profit when you get in - not always reliable though.

 

[daniellefr]

I am not sure you can be consistantly profitable in something that isn't constant! I definitely wouldn't call mylself a constant winner - don't think there is such thing in forex... or am I wrong?

 

[JTrader]

I am not sure you can be consistantly profitable in something that isn't constant! I definitely wouldn't call mylself a constant winner - don't think there is such thing in forex... or am I wrong?

forex cannot be seperated from any other market or instrument IMO.

at the end of the day, a chart is a chart and candles are candles. a pattern is made, setups form, and we try to trade them. sometimers they work, other times not. i dont see why some peiople try and blame failure in forex trading on forex itself.

 

[Skill Leverage]

I am not sure you can be consistantly profitable in something that isn't constant! I definitely wouldn't call mylself a constant winner - don't think there is such thing in forex... or am I wrong?

You are wrong I'm afraid! If you're talking consistently profitable as in, every day, then probably you are right, but when you take it to months and years, it is very possible to be very consistent.