Tax free futures trading using TT, Stellar, CQG....iBetfinancials

[TimYoung]

You're not the only company who offers Futures DMA trading within a spreadbet wrapper, and your competition has it's own platform, included is FX currinex and min account starts at £1k, so your £35k min will probably rule out 99% of the readership here.

Name? spit it out man!

 

[ibetfinancials]

Can you say about platform fees and commish rates?

Hi DashRiprock,

Please email us at [email protected] with your traded instruments and approximate monthly volumes and we will send you commission rates.

Platform costs are as per most futures brokers. CQG is the lowest cost of the three. The cost for each depends on what add ons (charts, number of excahgnes etc) that you require.

Please contact us and we will be happy to provide you with rates.

 

[pboyles]

If I remember right their commissions are very very low, however you do pay for the platform and extra for each exchange. If you are trading enough RTs they will be a good option, if you are trading one contract and doing 15 or 20 RTS a month then probably not as the platform fees will cost more than you save in comm. At least they are a proper broker, well established in the UK and not some dodgy offshore outfit.

 

[ibetfinancials]

If I remember right their commissions are very very low, however you do pay for the platform and extra for each exchange. If you are trading enough RTs they will be a good option, if you are trading one contract and doing 15 or 20 RTS a month then probably not as the platform fees will cost more than you save in comm. At least they are a proper broker, well established in the UK and not some dodgy offshore outfit.

Thanks pboyles, and you are entirely correct.

If you are trading just a few lots per month, the software costs may result in you being better off elsewhere. Unless you are very profitable of course. If through trading 20 lots you can make £5000 a month, then we may be the best option after all.

Most of our clients trade tens of thousands of lots per month, but we are always happy to consider accounts of much lower volumes assuming all other criteria can be met.

For details please email iBet at [email protected] or call 0207 390 4235

 

[riogordo]

Rowland

One thing that does concern me is that clients funds are not segregated. Is there a reason for this and what comfort can you offer me as a potential client?

 

[pit pony]

It is real DMA futures trading.

Once the trade is complete, the trade is cleared as a spread bet with the client, making the trade tax free for UK residents.

If you had two TT users sat next to each other, both trading the same instruments, there would be no difference in the experience for the two traders. Both would have the same speed/price/execution etc.

Only afterwards when viewing the trading statement for the day would the clients see any difference.

The trader with a futures account would see his trades, commissions, and his P/L would be taxable.

The trader with the futures account within a spread bet wrapper would see identical trades, the spread betting commissions (which includes all the futures commissions - exchange fee / clearing fees etc), but his profits would be tax free under UK law.

(If you are a non-UK resident, it is most likely that this benefit will not apply to you but you should check with your tax accountant.)

Some example TOTAL (Incl. Exchange fees/clearing etc) commissions per lot:

STIRs - From £0.40
Bund/Bobl/Schatz - From £0.32

FTSE - From £0.44
e-Mini S&P - From £0.48

As you can see, these rates are very close to standard futures rates.

Please PM me for other rates or email [email protected]

Rowland

just say you have 2 clients who are spreadbetting through IBet, 1 buying and 1 selling, are they matched off by yourselfs, thus saving on exchange fee's?

 

[ibetfinancials]

Rowland

One thing that does concern me is that clients funds are not segregated. Is there a reason for this and what comfort can you offer me as a potential client?

Hi Rigordo,

We are unable to segregate client funds as we need to post them with the exchange as client margin. As by out nature we attract high volume, larger clients (our "average" monthly volume client would be several thousand lots, and some trade hundreds of thousands per month), we need to keep client funds accessable to post these very large margins.

The security we offer you covers a number of points. Kyte Group is a very conservatively run business. Our accounts are offered by invitation only and the sign-up process is extensive. The vast majority of our clinets are long term profitable and we impose position limits on those traders we have less knowledge of. Unlike many futures brokers, Kyte are happy to turn away more risky traders in exchange for keeping our reputation as a solid and dependable company. We are also majority owned by GFI Group (look them up if you are not familiar) who again value the integrity and trust in the Kyte name above all else.

Finally, we are essentially a clearing house. We do not take any prop positions, nor do we take any opposing positions to any of our client's trades. You trade, we wrap it as a spread bet and charge a commission. If your trade loses/wins, it doesn't effect us. Your losses come out of your margin which we insist on. yes we can offer reduced intra-day margins but limits are put in place and if these are exceeded positions are very quickly closed (although this has only happened here on very, very, very rare occasions - see point above re profitable traders)

Please feel free to contact us directly for further details of our risk policy and approach.

Please contact iBet at: [email protected]

 

[ibetfinancials]

Rowland

just say you have 2 clients who are spreadbetting through IBet, 1 buying and 1 selling, are they matched off by yourselfs, thus saving on exchange fee's?

Hi Pit Pony,

Thanks for your question.

Unlike a traditional spread betting company, the answer to your question is no. We are unable to match off long/short trades against eachother. When you click the button to trade, your trade goes directly into the market. It doesn't come to us first.

If it did, then yes if we received two orders around the same time, we could net them off (like many spread beting companies do) and we would take two lots of commissions for no risk. It would be great if we could (for our profitability) but as we dont see the trade until after it hits the market (and we then wrap the P/L as a spread bet with you), we dont have this luxuary.

Let me know if you think of a way to do this (without delaying execution or taking on the risk) and we can set this up and retire.

Should you have any further questions, please feel free to contact iBet Financials at:

[email protected]

 

[TimYoung]

From what I read, Prospread is expensive and charges nearly as much as spreadbetting companies but do DMA. So kinda like a hybrid spreadbetting/DMA.

Whereas this if I am correct is pure DMA with DMA costs but have the spreadbetting tax free with it.

 

[pit pony]

From what I read, Prospread is expensive and charges nearly as much as spreadbetting companies but do DMA. So kinda like a hybrid spreadbetting/DMA.

Whereas this if I am correct is pure DMA with DMA costs but have the spreadbetting tax free with it.

Does anybody know the actual cost's, before we compare to other companies.??
Lets say for a 1 lot r/t on Ftse 100 future.

 

[TimYoung]

Here you go, third post of this thread

It is real DMA futures trading.

Once the trade is complete, the trade is cleared as a spread bet with the client, making the trade tax free for UK residents.

The trader with the futures account within a spread bet wrapper would see identical trades, the spread betting commissions (which includes all the futures commissions - exchange fee / clearing fees etc), but his profits would be tax free under UK law.

Some example TOTAL (Incl. Exchange fees/clearing etc) commissions per lot:

STIRs - From £0.40
Bund/Bobl/Schatz - From £0.32

FTSE - From £0.44
e-Mini S&P - From £0.48

As you can see, these rates are very close to standard futures rates.

 

[pit pony]

Here you go, third post of this thread

They state from, i'm asking if anybody knows the actual cost from using these guys.

 

[pboyles]

For a start you need a £35,000 account. Secondly you will pay several hundred for a trading platform, commissions will be very low, cents rather than dollars if I recall correctly. You'll need to e mail them for a specific quote but if you don't have 35k then don't waste their time.

 

[ibetfinancials]

Platform costs vary depending on what is required by the trader.

CQG starts from just $25 per month with an additional "per lot cost" capped at $295 per month.

For further details on platform costs please contact iBet Financials directly at [email protected]

 

[moksha99]

For a start you need a £35,000 account. Secondly you will pay several hundred for a trading platform, commissions will be very low, cents rather than dollars if I recall correctly. You'll need to e mail them for a specific quote but if you don't have 35k then don't waste their time.

For Non UK traders I can't see any advantage?
Reasoning for 35K min and no seg account does not make sense to me
+ added risk of not directly trading on actual market!
If one can trade on actual market with lot less than 35 K why take the additional risks!

 

[ibetfinancials]

Hi Moksha,

Your are correct, there are no advantages for non-UK traders. This is a feature of Financial Spread Betting.

Our accounts are true DMA, your trades go directly to the exchange, not via us. We are nothing like a typical spread betting company. We are far, far closer to a futures broker with the one and only benefit of spread betting, tax free profits.

The reason futures traders choose to trade through us is to take advantage of the tax free status of financial spread betting. We are futures trading within a spread betting wrapper. Unique in UK/World.

The huge majority of profitable futures traders with mid/high monthly volumes are better off trading with iBet Financials.

For further details on platform costs please contact iBet Financials directly at [email protected]

 

[Sambar]

I use ninjatrader as my charting platform and dom for execution with my current futures broker can I use your cqg datafeed

 

[pboyles]

Hi Moksha,

Your are correct, there are no advantages for non-UK traders. This is a feature of Financial Spread Betting.

Our accounts are true DMA, your trades go directly to the exchange, not via us. We are nothing like a typical spread betting company. We are far, far closer to a futures broker with the one and only benefit of spread betting, tax free profits.

The reason futures traders choose to trade through us is to take advantage of the tax free status of financial spread betting. We are futures trading within a spread betting wrapper. Unique in UK/World.

The huge majority of profitable futures traders with mid/high monthly volumes are better off trading with iBet Financials.

For further details on platform costs please contact iBet Financials directly at [email protected]

You mentioned some time back that there may be some changes to the minimum account size, did that ever happen or is it still in the pipeline?

 

[ibetfinancials]

Hi pboyles,

It really comes down to volumes and margin requirements. Should a trader be able to meet margin requirements (or trade spreads etc = less risk) and still trade enough volume, then smaller deposits can definately be considered.

We back succesful traders also in which case less/no deposit may be required.

For individual cases, please contact iBet Financials directly at [email protected]

You mentioned some time back that there may be some changes to the minimum account size, did that ever happen or is it still in the pipeline?

 

[ibetfinancials]

Hi Sambar,

Yes you could. We offer CQG Trader and Integrated Client. You could continue to use ninjatrader for chats and trade futures tax free using our datafeed. I will PM you to discuss or please feel free to contact us at [email protected]

I use ninjatrader as my charting platform and dom for execution with my current futures broker can I use your cqg datafeed