T2W book: ethical concerns

[arabianights]

Am I reading this right? I just clicked on the link and looked at the authors.

Almost everyone says they're a trader. But then I notice... there's one who says they're a "Professional Trader". There's another who says they're a "Full-time Trader".

This at least suggests that the rest actually don't get the majority of their income from trading.

I have to laugh at this ridiculous crap. How many morons have you had download this rubbish?

By the way, this isn't an abstract concern. There's an annoying sixth former who keeps coming into my chatroom for advice (there are lots that do intermittently, but this guy is persistent). I've only just got through to him that that 95% of professional traders do NOTHING REMOTELY RELATED to anything you can do on spread betting. Outright directional speculative positions are just not what almost anyone who actually does this for a job gets up to. It may seem that way to retards ****ing around on spread betting accounts, but believe me that is almost entirely atypical.

You need to understand that by selling this garbage you're potentially ruining lives. It's disgusting. I don't know how much is due to your incompetence and how much is due to your greed. But stop it, please. You're leading young lives astray.

You can probably make as much money just distributing to people at knowledge2action or klneeze seminars or something. And then at least it goes towards the "deserving"

 

[Hotch]

To be blunt, anyone dumb enough to waste their money buying it, and believing the tripe in it, is going to lose all their money one way or another, so why not give it to Sharky?

 

[the hare]

You need to understand that by selling this garbage you're potentially ruining lives. It's disgusting. I don't know how much is due to your incompetence and how much is due to your greed. But stop it, please. You're leading young lives astray.

There's probably an argument to be made that you need to be aware of this sort of material contained in those kinds of books in order to even begin questioning it.

Its pretty cut and dried, t2w has a deliberate policy of dumbing down, and promoting misinformation as this suits their commercial adgenda. I'm not saying that's morally wrong, (I suppose it is, but nobody's perfect) its just how they choose to make a living, and its neither more or less honourable than what we do.

If we dig deep enough, most of us could find ethical dilemas on a day to day basis.

I'm not sure traders are allowed to do ethics are we ?

 

[barjon]

Am I reading this right? I just clicked on the link and looked at the authors.

Almost everyone says they're a trader. But then I notice... there's one who says they're a "Professional Trader". There's another who says they're a "Full-time Trader".

This at least suggests that the rest actually don't get the majority of their income from trading.

I have to laugh at this ridiculous crap. How many morons have you had download this rubbish?

By the way, this isn't an abstract concern. There's an annoying sixth former who keeps coming into my chatroom for advice (there are lots that do intermittently, but this guy is persistent). I've only just got through to him that that 95% of professional traders do NOTHING REMOTELY RELATED to anything you can do on spread betting. Outright directional speculative positions are just not what almost anyone who actually does this for a job gets up to. It may seem that way to retards ****ing around on spread betting accounts, but believe me that is almost entirely atypical.

You need to understand that by selling this garbage you're potentially ruining lives. It's disgusting. I don't know how much is due to your incompetence and how much is due to your greed. But stop it, please. You're leading young lives astray.

You can probably make as much money just distributing to people at knowledge2action or klneeze seminars or something. And then at least it goes towards the "deserving"

Arabian

Three things:

Firstly, good to be in your company again - we're in something of an anti-lulz mode atm in case you hadn't noticed

Secondly, your observations of what professionals really get up to are doubtless spot on, but there are are thousands of people who do "trade" outright directional (for example) and many who make a success of doing it. I put trade in "" "" because I've always felt uncomfortable thinking of myself as a trader since it conjours up an image of something more high-powered than I am. Nonetheless, I've been at it for well over thirty years and although I've no doubt whatsoever that I couldn't have cut it as a pro, I've been very happy with my "paying hobby". I relate my experience merely because I don't think you can write off everyone who trades in a way that may be somewhat foreign to you professionals.

Thirdly, it seems to me that the book is just an expanded version, with a range of views on frequently asked questions, of our own first steps thread http://www.trade2win.com/boards/first-steps/89078-essentials-first-steps.html which new arrivals are prompted to look at. So is that thread "unethical" too?

jon

 

[the hare]

it seems to me that the book is just an expanded version, with a range of views on frequently asked questions, of our own first steps thread http://www.trade2win.com/boards/first-steps/89078-essentials-first-steps.html which new arrivals are prompted to look at. So is that thread "unethical" too?

I suppose in the strictest sense of the word, yes, its unethical, but its the price users of the site pay for the facilities that you provide.

Lets be honest, its completely unrealistic to expect to find full details of a step by step methodology that allows them to instantly make money. Its a bit unfair to slag off t2w for not providing this.

The material t2w provides is fairly neutral, its neither good nor bad. The spread is more than enough to do the damage you need to earn your IB fees. Lets be honest, the membership base is capable enough of spreading disinformation and doing that sort of damage for itself without the need for proactive intervention.

Its the environment at forums that does the damage to new traders, not necessarily the content. If you ask is it unethical to create such an environment, then strictly, yes it is, but everyone has free will, and they dont need to participate if they dont want to.

 

[pboyles]

Am I reading this right? I just clicked on the link and looked at the authors.

Almost everyone says they're a trader. But then I notice... there's one who says they're a "Professional Trader". There's another who says they're a "Full-time Trader".

This at least suggests that the rest actually don't get the majority of their income from trading.

I have to laugh at this ridiculous crap. How many morons have you had download this rubbish?

By the way, this isn't an abstract concern. There's an annoying sixth former who keeps coming into my chatroom for advice (there are lots that do intermittently, but this guy is persistent). I've only just got through to him that that 95% of professional traders do NOTHING REMOTELY RELATED to anything you can do on spread betting. Outright directional speculative positions are just not what almost anyone who actually does this for a job gets up to. It may seem that way to retards ****ing around on spread betting accounts, but believe me that is almost entirely atypical.

You need to understand that by selling this garbage you're potentially ruining lives. It's disgusting. I don't know how much is due to your incompetence and how much is due to your greed. But stop it, please. You're leading young lives astray.

You can probably make as much money just distributing to people at knowledge2action or klneeze seminars or something. And then at least it goes towards the "deserving"

You obviously missed the 'secret box that makes millions' discussion.

 

[timsk]

You need to understand that by selling this garbage you're potentially ruining lives. It's disgusting. I don't know how much is due to your incompetence and how much is due to your greed. But stop it, please. You're leading young lives astray.

Hi arabian,
The book has come in for a bit of stick from a vociferous minority. Surprisingly, none of them appear to have read the book before posting their damning comments. Even more surprisingly, some of them feel that they don't need to read the book to know that it's rubbish; something they are magically able to discern just by looking at the graphics found on the websites of the contributors. Amazing! Your criticism of both the book and T2W is particularly acerbic, so please tell me it's based on first hand knowledge gained from actually reading the book? If so, perhaps you'd care to quote specific contributions that in your view are so inaccurate or misleading that they likely to 'ruin lives'.
Tim.

 

[pboyles]

Hi arabian,
The book has come in for a bit of stick from a vociferous minority. Surprisingly, none of them appear to have read the book before posting their damning comments. Even more surprisingly, some of them feel that they don't need to read the book to know that it's rubbish; something they are magically able to discern just by looking at the graphics found on the websites of the contributors. Amazing! Your criticism of both the book and T2W is particularly acerbic, so please tell me it's based on first hand knowledge gained from actually reading the book? If so, perhaps you'd care to quote specific contributions that in your view are so inaccurate or misleading that they likely to 'ruin lives'.
Tim.

It's all very unkind. It reminds me of the time I was trying to help this Nigerian General with moving some money. People said that I shouldn't trust someone that I met by e mail, that it was all a scam. None of them had read the e mail so how did they know? Some of them even said he wasn't a real General at all but they had no proof, how dare they insult such a senior officer. People shouldn't make such judgments without knowing all the facts. I'm still waiting on my commission but I'm sure it will be here soon.

 

[DionysusToast]

Hi arabian,
The book has come in for a bit of stick from a vociferous minority. Surprisingly, none of them appear to have read the book before posting their damning comments. Even more surprisingly, some of them feel that they don't need to read the book to know that it's rubbish; something they are magically able to discern just by looking at the graphics found on the websites of the contributors. Amazing! Your criticism of both the book and T2W is particularly acerbic, so please tell me it's based on first hand knowledge gained from actually reading the book? If so, perhaps you'd care to quote specific contributions that in your view are so inaccurate or misleading that they likely to 'ruin lives'.
Tim.

Send me a copy then, I'll write an unbiased review.

 

[the hare]

Hi arabian,
The book has come in for a bit of stick from a vociferous minority. Surprisingly, none of them appear to have read the book before posting their damning comments.
Tim.

You are of course right. I have not critisised the book, and furthermore I explained quite clearly that I was not in a position to critisise someting that I had not read. I even went so far as to state that John Formans contribution at t2w and other forums where he participates was of a generally high quality, and that his previous books where perfectly satisfactory.

Apart from a very small minority, very few people have critisised the book, as you well know.

It is extremely mischevious of you to try to skew the argument in this way. By and large, they have not critisied the book, they are questioning the integrity of one or more contributors, and quetioning the sanity of t2w publically aligning themselves with characters of a dubious nature.

I note Tim that neither you nor Barjon have addressed my perfectly valid questions, namely what due dilligence did t2w undertake to ensure itself that the claims made by these authors where factual. None as far as I am aware have publically audited track records.

To refresh your memory, you make the following claims. How did you establish the legitimacy of the claims made by these contributors ?

As you are aware, one of your books contributors claims his financial success is due to cracking a secret code contained in a box smuggled from nazi Germany. He's very generously decided to share those secrets for £995, but he advises to order quickly, as there's only 88 copies left.



Trust the Information Sources

No more wondering about the background of those answering your questions and providing information. Know who they are, what kind of experience they have, and even what they look like.

Get Professional, Informative Responses

Gain insight and understanding from answers written by experienced traders and market pros who know their business and how to explain it to you.

 

[the hare]

Send me a copy then, I'll write an unbiased review.

You do realise that a bad review of the book would result in your expulsion from the worshipful guild of trading sytem vendors and snake oil salesmen ?

Article 13.1.54 of the terms and conditions clearly states that "no vendor shall publish by any means, a negative assesment of any other vendors product. The integrity of the 'vendors circle jerk' must be maintained at all times".

Lucky Howards not a full member yet or you'd be in trouble

 

[Liquid validity]

I can't find the T2W book available for review here:
Reviews - Books | Trade2Win

Or recommended here:
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/trading-faq/30637-books-should-beginner-read-7.html

Is that due to something as simple as price comparison / oversight,
or could it be that the primary motivation is not aligned with the ideals
of the above links...:whistling

Could that be the reason this thread exists in the first place?
Placing the T2W book in those sections might go part of the way to
reducing the vested interest accusations...

 

[Masquerade]

Hi arabian,
The book has come in for a bit of stick from a vociferous minority. Surprisingly, none of them appear to have read the book before posting their damning comments. Even more surprisingly, some of them feel that they don't need to read the book to know that it's rubbish; something they are magically able to discern just by looking at the graphics found on the websites of the contributors. Amazing! Your criticism of both the book and T2W is particularly acerbic, so please tell me it's based on first hand knowledge gained from actually reading the book? If so, perhaps you'd care to quote specific contributions that in your view are so inaccurate or misleading that they likely to 'ruin lives'.
Tim.

I think someone wants a free copy

I see what Arabian did.

 

[arabianights]

Hi arabian,
The book has come in for a bit of stick from a vociferous minority. Surprisingly, none of them appear to have read the book before posting their damning comments. Even more surprisingly, some of them feel that they don't need to read the book to know that it's rubbish; something they are magically able to discern just by looking at the graphics found on the websites of the contributors. Amazing! Your criticism of both the book and T2W is particularly acerbic, so please tell me it's based on first hand knowledge gained from actually reading the book? If so, perhaps you'd care to quote specific contributions that in your view are so inaccurate or misleading that they likely to 'ruin lives'.
Tim.

I don't need to read the book to have a very good idea what it will contain

 

[the hare]

I don't need to read the book to have a very good idea what it will contain

I hear rumours that there's a cracking chapter on decrypting Nazi codes

 

[arabianights]

Timsk, look at this website: Flag-Trader System, Guy Cohen

Seriously, do you honestly want to defend that author?

 

[pboyles]

Timsk, look at this website: Flag-Trader System, Guy Cohen

Seriously, do you honestly want to defend that author?

He's been asked that a dozen times.

 

[arabianights]

Did he ever answer?

Getting back to my sixth former, who does actually exist - there's precious little on the internet about what trading involves. I assume that after seeing these crappy descriptions he decided to his own research, and ended up here - again, that isn't so unreasonable - he wouldn't understand wilmott, and places like the long room or internal bbg boards are unavaliable and obscure.

So to him, and possibly to uni students (although I'd hope they'd be less naive, I wouldn't count on it) all these threads with lots of squiggles on charts and candlesticks and crap like that are going to appear to be what traders actually do. It's hopelessly misleading.

 

[pboyles]

Did he ever answer?

Getting back to my sixth former, who does actually exist - there's precious little on the internet about what trading involves. I assume that after seeing these crappy descriptions he decided to his own research, and ended up here - again, that isn't so unreasonable - he wouldn't understand wilmott, and places like the long room or internal bbg boards are unavaliable and obscure.

So to him, and possibly to uni students (although I'd hope they'd be less naive, I wouldn't count on it) all these threads with lots of squiggles on charts and candlesticks and crap like that are going to appear to be what traders actually do. It's hopelessly misleading.

Only in a sort of semi mocking fashion, apparently if its not your cup of tea you should just ignore the relevant chapter.

 

[the hare]

Only in a sort of semi mocking fashion, apparently if its not your cup of tea you should just ignore the relevant chapter.

IGNORE IT ! have you taken leave of your senses man for heavens sake !

This author has access to secrets which where decoded and smuggled out of Nazi Germany. He holds the key to rich's beyond your imagination. Those secrets are ten times more powerful today than when young Nicohlas Davas used them to make himself rich.

Who in their right mind could ignore such a thing ?