Swing Trading by Rivalland

tomorton

Legendary member
Helenqu - a pity (& surprise) you haven't had responses to this.

I borrowed the book (tightfisted, me?) and found it better than clear, incisive. The chart and actua trade examples are very convincing. Marc is modest enough to stress that the basic methodologoy is not original. I tested his directions on the FTSE100 from 1/1/03 (ie after the book was published) - the potential gains were equivalent to a 40% rise in the index value.

I am committing actual cash into this strategy via spreadbetting over the last 4-5 wks: one position only so far: if I had followed the rules, it would have been worth 69 points on the FTSE in 3 days. Several other positions I let go by as we're not exactly in a trending market so the risk'reward ratio isn't so good.

The last third of the book is on point & figure - good, but not much new there: if you're using them you know them, if you're not using them you probably hate them.

Best wishes,

Tom
 

Helenqu

Established member
Hi Tom,

I've actually read it now, was kindly given a copy :) I found the Gann bits offputting but found the rest fine. I'll be interested to know how you get on with your FTSE spreadbets.

Cheers
 

tomorton

Legendary member
Well of course I'm going to do just fine!

Unless I start to think about what I'm doing.

Cheers anyway.
 

DaveJB

Experienced member
I'd like to know as well <g> I quite like Gann charts personally, not that I actually use them, but they look pretty. They seem so neat and organised that they ought to make money .... ;)
I would add a teensy warning, the charts etc are convincing comment - they always will be, no author is going to illustrate his text with something that shoots his argument down in flames!
That's not a criticism of the book, but all books of course - I thought it was a very attractive book, I got mine for the same price as Helen which improved things no end... much better than that Van Tharp rubbish I read over Easter. All build up, no content except a load of psychobabble... if I want to get in touch with my inner self I'll swallow a camera.
Dave
 

Helenqu

Established member
Oi Dave!

You criticising Van Tharps "Trade your way to financial freedom"? I think it's a great book, one of my faves :)
 

ollie

Junior member
Helenqu, I see you have read Marc Rivalland's book, have you read Master Swing Trader by Alan Farley ? If so how do you rate them ?

Also you recently posted and said you had a list of candlestick patterns stuck to your screen, what forum was this posted in?


Ollie
 

TraderPattern

Well-known member
There is NOTHING that Rivalland can add to the subject of swing trading over and above what Raschke and Farley have already covered. Skip this Rivalland guy.
 

Bigbusiness

Experienced member
I don't buy many books but for some reason parted with the cash for this one. Still can't think what came over me. Must have been too many drinks and an Amazon voucher!

It is a reasonable book but only really gives a detailed outline of one trading strategy. Not sure why it costs so much and I was disappointed not to get a hardback for the price. The problem is, I find the time scale of the strategy doesn't suite me and I haven't been able to use it. I also find the charts in the book look at periods when the system works well but there are times when it works poorly and I would find it hard to stick to it. Trading the FTSE 100 during one of its narrow range periods would drive me crazy.

He updates his website with the latest buy and sell signals.

http://www.marcrivalland.com/swing_charts.asp
 

DaveJB

Experienced member
Hi Helen,
yes indeed, I know you're into the psycholofy side (you'd better be, or the PhD is definitely in trouble ;) ) I got maybe halfway into it, agreeing with most of it, and couldn't wait for the words of wisdom to round it out... the second half reminded me of the chap in the Ashram (sp?) who went on to do the Kumars at no. whatever, chanting beatles lyrics etc in the hope it'd sound profound. Great build up, didn't see much substance thereafter... it may be that he's been quoted a lot, and this is full of gems that I just happen to have already encountered repeatedly - there's also probably a large element of dislike for all this 'know yourself' stuff.... when I lose I lose, when I win I win, I don;t feel any need to decide why my psyche compelled me to mess the trade up - I think it's counter productive, and you end up using self analysis as a crutch... I'll do better next time, after all I know why I did that now...too much of that in it for me - guess I'm more suited to Bulkowski's chart patterns for bedtime reading eh?
Marc's book - I thought the price a bit steep for a floppy book also, but it's really a case of whether the content warrants it. He covered his chosen ground pretty well, and I thought the general layout etc was really good - I suspect it would be a nice intro to the subject for real beginners. I'd be a bit dubious perhaps about whether the more experienced trader would gain a great deal from it, so non-beginners might consider the price steep for what they gained from it. I think this is Marc's first book, isn't it? If so then a more advanced tome might be worth hoping for somewhere along the line... Overall I'd say a good effort, but not really aimed at the more advanced type.
Dave
Oh, I REALLY liked 'Biggles Goes to War' as a kid, just for those who think I never give good marks to books.
 

tomorton

Legendary member
It has to be accepted the book'snot cheap, not original and not very technical.

However, for those who're interested, today's FTSE100 range made yesterday a swing high, as we fell through yesterday's low of 3981.7 early in this morning's trade. These Gann/Rivalland swing trades are not supposed to be intra-day but already there's a good 50 FTSE points on the credit side for them as went short. Not me, sob, sob.

Interesting to see how this goes tomorrow and Monday as we're still in an uptrend really.
 

Pollux

Member
Helen and all.
I have read perhaps a dozen trading orientated books and liked them all. I shelled out last month when I was in San Francisco for Alan Farley's book and I must say it's abit of a handful. I shall persevere but my first go through it has left me a bit cold. It's more art than down to earth technical stuff it seems to me. What were the gems you found in the book may I ask??
As an antedote, I am reading Kack Zwaeger's intro to tech analysis which is excellent, much more my cuppa (for a simpleton like me!)
Regards, Pollux.
 

tomorton

Legendary member
Helenqu and DaveJB

Hi again. You both expressed an interest in my swing trades since 4/5. Sad to say I neglected to follow the simple rule in Rivalland against going short in an uptrend. Feel now rather like having stood in the middle of a quiet motorway - still around but a bit ragged round the edges.

However, here is a summary of what I think SHOULD have happened. On 4/5 we were in an obvious uptrend following a series of swing lows and the established swing trader would have been long already.

Assuming no postitions that day - the FTSE made a swing high on 7/5. With the index in an established uptrend, confirmed by the positive slope of the 14DMA etc etc it would have been overly aggressive to go short but you will see it could have been done, in contravention of the book's guidance.

However, sticking to the book, we had a low at 9/5 though this was not a swing low, leading back into the uptrend to the swing high of 16/5. Again, resisting the temptation to go short (only wish I had), we were rewarded with a swing low at 21/5.

A buy could have been entered on the 22/5 from3972. The upleg from the 21/5 swing low is still in force so this position should still be held. It has been as high as 4148 (today), a potential maximum gain so far of 176 points, equivalent to a 4.4% gain from 21/5 and there has been plenty of time to take profits of over 100 points.

I am now waiting for another swing low so I can go long. Or for a failure of the uptrend as long predicted which would allow me to go short as from 3908, if I've read this right, that being the low of the last swing low (21/5).

Just hoping I have shaken off the determination to go short in uptrends and day-trade out of boredom. Rule 3: Wait for the signal.

Good luck all.
 

DaveJB

Experienced member
Hi, and thanks for the record - just out of interest have you tried a swing charting program like hottrader?
For Helen, I'v ealmost finished Elder's 'Come Into My Trading Room' - now THAT is much better, chuck Tharp and read Elder, much less psychobabble!
Dave
;-)
 

tomorton

Legendary member
Hi DaveJB

re hottrader - I had previously been to the website but not thought of buying the software. I hate paying for software anyway.

I shall press on a bit longer with Rivalland/Gann's methodology manually and see how far I can get. If my trading starts to impose more workload than I care to handle I may seriously look at hottrader. Thanks.
 

ZigZag

Active member
tomorton. A good post . Like you I often position myself against the trend. ( 5day Regression Analysis) Needless to say I kick myself afterwards. However not much damage done as I employ very tight stops knowing the risks. To add to your discussion I am seeking to short at what I consider a swing low at 4080 (16MAY High) with a target at 4048 (2 Jun Low). If the 4048 is broken I will add to my short. If the price falls to the levels above but fails to breech them I will consider them support lines & go long. Good luck
 

tomorton

Legendary member
Cheers ZigZag.

I haven't had a look at the chart to think properly about your figures but from memory I can say that I tried shorting recently at 4038, 4058, 4070 and 4080 and got burnt.

Tight stops might be essential here because there's so much unfounded buying optimism about in the US. In fact their charts get more bullish the higher they go.

I am wary about shorting now unless we breach 3908, the low of the last swing low (21/5 I think).

Off to see charts re your post. Good luck.
 
 
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