successful traders will neither give nor seek advice

[Satori]

To be successful trader, you are always looking to inprove that's why they are successful. you never stop learning, and some successful traders will helps others, they wont give it all away but put them on the correct path to become successful

Quite correct, although they may not be able to give it all away even if they tried.

 

[SOCRATES]

Quite correct, although they may not be able to give it all away even if they tried.

Yep....and with this I completely agree.

 

[starspacer]

Sir Bedevere: ...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped.
King Arthur: This new learning amazes me, Sir Bedevere. Explain again how sheep's bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes.


Ah! Maybe that's it. The giver of knowledge doesn't really have a bananas.

 

[Anonymous]

A very successful man on his deathbed tells his son: "Beware of this and beware of that.

"What I have built is now passed on to you," he breathes in and continues, " Through all the methods I have used to achieve my success, not many will be happy with me."

He breathes in and continues: "There are those who appear smart, but are really not. There are those who appear charitable, but are really crooked."

He breathes in again and continues: "There are those who appear loyal but are really not, there are those who appear rebellious but are really not."

He breathes in and again continues: "There are those who ask stupid questions, and those who give silly answers. But that is not conclusive evidence that they are stupid or silly."

 

[charliechan]

It must be.

Because it is only the unsuccessful who have cause to ask persistent questions on public boards and by PM.

Successful traders do not ask questions, as they already have the answers.

An extension of this is that once they have mastered al of this and themselves, they do not need to ask any further questions of any sort.

And as a further extension to the above and in addition to it, at this stage they are not willing to share it, and keep it to themselves and those they choose to discuss it with in private, out of schnorrer range.

That's more like it, isn't it ?

yes - but there is another angle also.

a successful trader could post his system or method on this board. would the others be able to make money from it?

no. because they are not him. they dont see the market in the same way as their life experiences have been different.

they may not be able to assume or take the same risks - or they may try and add more risk to make more

they may be more greedy than the successful trader.

they will not have the same disciplines or understandings of when to enter and when to stand aside

etc

etc

this is one thing that fascinated me about that ross hooks/123 thread. such a simple set up, yet everyone had their own unique angle on what setups were taken, timeframe etc etc

so whats the point in posting a method? its like wearing someone elses clothes - it just dont feel right.

 

[fxmarkets]

Every single trader has sought/taken advice at some point has no one here not read a book on trading ,any aspect of it or researched on the net held discussions with colleagues ? But it should not be a big issue ,after all its just offering an opinion about what can or should be done in a situation. It cant even be wrong because again its offering of opinion. And even if you examine a situation and conclude I havent formed an opinion, thats still an opinion..... No One is without opinion.

 

[SOCRATES]

Every single trader has sought/taken advice at some point has no one here not read a book on trading ,any aspect of it or researched on the net held discussions with colleagues ? But it should not be a big issue ,after all its just offering an opinion about what can or should be done in a situation. It cant even be wrong because again its offering of opinion. And even if you examine a situation and conclude I havent formed an opinion, thats still an opinion..... No One is without opinion.

And that, is precisely the problem. Too many opinions. And too many opinions by individuals who ought to keep quiet and listen instead as their knowledge bases are not that great.

As it really cannot be passed on, actually there is no point into entering discussions in any depth about it.

And no sooner is the correct view expessed, than out of the woodwork crawl the creatures to try to invalidate that which they know little or nothing about.

Therefore because all fo this is experiential, it is meaningful to the one who has experienced it and to no one else. Therefore, at a superficial level it can be discussed, but it can never really be passed on.

For this reason, interesting threads have a habit of dying out no sooner do they begin to get interesting.

This is because the holders of the knowledge view getting involved as a futile excercise.

But repeated attempts at brain picking continue, but to no avail.

 

[SOCRATES]

yes - but there is another angle also.

a successful trader could post his system or method on this board. would the others be able to make money from it?

no. because they are not him. they dont see the market in the same way as their life experiences have been different.

they may not be able to assume or take the same risks - or they may try and add more risk to make more

they may be more greedy than the successful trader.

they will not have the same disciplines or understandings of when to enter and when to stand aside

etc

etc

this is one thing that fascinated me about that ross hooks/123 thread. such a simple set up, yet everyone had their own unique angle on what setups were taken, timeframe etc etc

so whats the point in posting a method? its like wearing someone elses clothes - it just dont feel right.

You are quite right Charliechan, and so it is pointless to discuss methods.

Whatever of merit is posted is apt to be disseminated ad nauseam.

In the end what comes out the other end bears no resemblance to the original idea.

So it is a useless and pointless excercise and everyone is best left to their own devices.

 

[SOCRATES]

A very successful man on his deathbed tells his son: "Beware of this and beware of that.

"What I have built is now passed on to you," he breathes in and continues, " Through all the methods I have used to achieve my success, not many will be happy with me."

He breathes in and continues: "There are those who appear smart, but are really not. There are those who appear charitable, but are really crooked."

He breathes in again and continues: "There are those who appear loyal but are really not, there are those who appear rebellious but are really not."

He breathes in and again continues: "There are those who ask stupid questions, and those who give silly answers. But that is not conclusive evidence that they are stupid or silly."

Also, yes this is the reason why, in prop shops the successful traders do not share their expertise with the others.

Anyone who says anything to the contrary is talking nonsense.

 

[Satori]

Socrates,

You have some very strange views, if I may be so bold as to suggest such a thing.

It's only conversation. One can contribute or not. Sometimes it's useful and sometimes it isn't.

There are no 'big secrets' worth having, but it's up to individuals to decide if they have some something useful to pass on and wish to do so. Likewise it's up to individuals to decide if something passed onto them is of any use.

The original statement, which is where all this conversation came from, was that successful traders neither ask questions nor answer them, and I dispute that on the grounds that it depends upon the personality of the trader in question.

The successful trader may hold the opinion that there's no substitute for experience, discipline, psychology and the other non-technical things that make up the most important parts of a trader's armoury, but they may still choose to try to answer the questions of the less experienced, ask questions of the more experienced and compare points with their peers. Answers don't have to be absolute - there's no law that says they do - and one can often benefit in subtle ways from the sum of all answers received over a lifetime's trading.

 

[SOCRATES]

Socrates,

You have some very strange views, if I may be so bold as to suggest such a thing.

It's only conversation. One can contribute or not. Sometimes it's useful and sometimes it isn't.

There are no 'big secrets' worth having, but it's up to individuals to decide if they have some something useful to pass on and wish to do so. Likewise it's up to individuals to decide if something passed onto them is of any use.

The original statement, which is where all this conversation came from, was that successful traders neither ask questions nor answer them, and I dispute that on the grounds that it depends upon the personality of the trader in question.

The successful trader may hold the opinion that there's no substitute for experience, discipline, psychology and the other non-technical things that make up the most important parts of a trader's armoury, but they may still choose to try to answer the questions of the less experienced, ask questions of the more experienced and compare points with their peers. Answers don't have to be absolute - there's no law that says they do - and one can often benefit in subtle ways from the sum of all answers received over a lifetime's trading.

My views are not strange. They may appear unfamiliar to you or even uncomfortable.
This is because my views are not mainstream. Only mainstream views appear either comfortable or familiar or both. This is because mainstream views are the views held by the great majority.

It is a natural instinct of people to seek comfort in widely held views, and to group together and to share.
In the markets this does not and cannot work.

One must always disregard the majority popular opinion in these matters because they are invairiably the wrong ones.

Now I am not saying no one is entiltled to having views, but what I am saying is that the holders of the views who are in the minority, that depend on a basis of expertise are not going to be generous with their hard earned edges.

The matter of personality is debatable. Personality can change, whereas character never does. This is because personality is the by product of character among other things.

These other things include life experiences. These life experiences cannot be ignored.
They are formative, and once they are formed, they remain.

Otherwise it would be futile to go through life having experiences and not learning from them.

One of the greatest lessons I have been made to learn is that to be openly and unconditionally generous is pointless.

 

[charliechan]

lol - so what is everyone doing here?

 

[SOCRATES]

The Holy Grail

lol - so what is everyone doing here?

In case the penny has not dropped yet, it is a great pilgrimage you are witnessing.

The object of the pilgrimage is a collective and futile attempt to find the Holy Grail.

 

[charliechan]

In case the penny has not dropped yet, it is a great pilgrimage you are witnessing.

The object of the pilgrimage is a collective and futile attempt to find the Holy Grail.

:cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

lol - the pilgrims are chasing their tails again.....

i do often wonder why so many spend so much time here. if it could be found here, wouldnt some one have found it by now?

or are they keeping quiet?

i think some knowledge can be damaging, while other knowledge is useful. the eternal problem is, if you dont know to start with, then you dont know if your nugget is indeed gold, or fools gold. one persons nectar is anothers poison.

so, what are we doing here?

 

[starspacer]

In case the penny has not dropped yet, it is a great pilgrimage you are witnessing.

The object of the pilgrimage is a collective and futile attempt to find the Holy Grail.

"Follow. But! Follow only if ye be men of valour, for the entrance to this cave is guarded by a creature so foul, so cruel that no man yet has fought with it and lived! Bones of full fifty men lie strewn about its lair. So, brave knights, if you do doubt your courage or your strength, come no further, for death awaits you all with nasty, big, pointy teeth."


Do ye still seek the Grail??

 

[Bluebelle]

"Follow. But! Follow only if ye be men of valour, for the entrance to this cave is guarded by a creature so foul, so cruel that no man yet has fought with it and lived! Bones of full fifty men lie strewn about its lair. So, brave knights, if you do doubt your courage or your strength, come no further, for death awaits you all with nasty, big, pointy teeth."


Do ye still seek the Grail??

Ok starspacer. So come clean. What's your favourite colour ?

 

[Satori]

My views are not strange. They may appear unfamiliar to you or even uncomfortable.

I know little of your views beyond this thread so please interpret my comment about your views being 'strange' as only relating to my perception of them in relation to the content of this thread. My mistake.

Your views are neither uncomfortable nor unfamilar. What I find 'strange' is that one who believes that successful traders neither ask nor answer questions, one who regards the talk here as pointless, one who suggests that talking about trading is futile is bothering to post here in the first place.

This is because my views are not mainstream. Only mainstream views appear either comfortable or familiar or both. This is because mainstream views are the views held by the great majority.

I can't comment on your views as being mainstream or not. All I know about them is that you appear to see little benefit in either asking or answering questions on a forum designed for that very purpose. I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous answer as to why I consider that 'strange'.

Me, I think it all adds to 'experience' in subtle ways.

It is a natural instinct of people to seek comfort in widely held views, and to group together and to share.

Yes, I agree with that.

In the markets this does not and cannot work.

Well I think that depends upon what you mean by 'widely held views', 'group together' and 'share'. It is a widely held view that markets operate on an underlying principle of demand and supply - traders, by subscribing to that 'widely held view', will sometimes interpret that in similar ways due to knowledge that has, at some point, been 'shared' with them.

But this is very sematic and probably besides the point.

One must always disregard the majority popular opinion in these matters because they are invairiably the wrong ones.

Very often.

Now I am not saying no one is entiltled to having views, but what I am saying is that the holders of the views who are in the minority, that depend on a basis of expertise are not going to be generous with their hard earned edges.

Some won't be; others may.

The matter of personality is debatable. Personality can change, whereas character never does. This is because personality is the by product of character among other things.

Well we're getting philosophical here - I tend to subscribe to the opinion that what we call either 'personality' or 'character' is mainly an accumulation of perceptions based on our life experiences.

These other things include life experiences. These life experiences cannot be ignored.

Agreed.

One of the greatest lessons I have been made to learn is that to be openly and unconditionally generous is pointless.

Odd. I find being openly and unconditionally generous to be a most rewarding experience, although a very elusive one.

But now we're getting way off-topic, so I think it's probably best not to pursue the philosophical undercurrents any further in this thread.

A pleasure talking toot with you. Good night.

 

[starspacer]

Ok starspacer. So come clean. What's your favourite colour ?

Well I kinda like this one...

​

​

 

[Bluebelle]

Well I kinda like this one...

​

​

...and the terminal velocity of a swallow ?

 

[SOCRATES]

A blind man would like to see it .....and a deaf man would like to hear it.

:cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

lol - the pilgrims are chasing their tails again.....

i do often wonder why so many spend so much time here. if it could be found here, wouldnt some one have found it by now?

or are they keeping quiet?

i think some knowledge can be damaging, while other knowledge is useful. the eternal problem is, if you dont know to start with, then you dont know if your nugget is indeed gold, or fools gold. one persons nectar is anothers poison.

so, what are we doing here?

Hello Charlie,

What we are doing here is having fun observing a cyclical game of blind man's bluff.