Stuck in a rut as a 'sales trader'... Plz Help!!!

[Rapster]

Good afternoon guys and girls... am new to the forum so forgive me if I am not using colloquial language etc...

The reason for posting the below is I have been working for a Boutique Currency Broker selling deliverable currency to both private and corporate clients for 2 years now. The money is pretty good but that is because I am good at the job (not being big headed or anything, that is just fact… I exceed my targets by 135% I am consistently top trader for the company and so on and so forth…)

I feel that there is nowhere left for me to go within my current environment and I have hit the ceiling of my earning potential… what I am now looking to do is break into the trading world properly, work for a city firm trading proper money and earning a fortune doing it?!?!? At the moment everywhere I look I am finding that the money is similar and the environment is the same… when I start to look at big banks I am finding that I do not have enough product knowledge or experience to qualify…

Can anyone suggest the best direction to look in to get my foot on the ladder and break in the world of trading in the city…?

Thanks in advance!!!

 

[grantx]

Rapster,

I presume your success results from providing a good service to your clients (or it could mean your a good bull-stthier). That being the case, make sure you have a personal record of all your clients details - contact names, addresses, tel no's, etc. Don't let on to your employers.

With a good client base, you can go anywhere. Many firms try to stop this but are clients happy with a firm or individual? If you walk, they'll follow.

If you're looking outside fx, you'll need to study for the relevant exams but in the meantime, maintain contact (informally) with clients.

I suspect your fx clients trade other markets, certainly the corporate side - eg hedging via futures, options, forwards, swaps.

Use your imagination and creativity - as a salesman, this shouldn't be difficult. Get a (used) copy of D A Dubofsky's Options and Financial Futures (highly recommended) and his Derivatives: Valuation and Risk Management. I haven't read the latter but would recommend it based on his first book. Look here:

http://amazon.co.uk/gp/search?searc...ing=&mysubmitbutton1.x=15&mysubmitbutton1.y=8

An option, prior to qualification, is to become an Introducing Agent for a firm but you need to tread warily. Basically, your clients become clients of the firm and you receive a split on comm's. As a minimum I would insist on being present in the office (won' cost them anything).

Grant.

 

[Rapster]

If you are already working as a sales trader for a firm with at least some genuine wholesale (in this case corporate) clients, why is it you don't feel you have the knowledge to step up to the bigger shops. Is this feedback you're getting from them, or something you feel yourself?

What's your focus? G7? Emerging Markets? A bit of everything?

And are you already running yuour own positions and risk book, or do you basically square everything you see, making a small turn on it each time?

GJ

Focus is totally on FX... no other products so I am finding that the bigger shops are wanting someone who has experience with derivatives, swaps, options and so on, which I have had no exposure to. I have no doubt in my mind that I can learn and understand these products as 2 years ago I didn't have a Scooby about currency and I clearly have enough knowledge to sell my wears to others, but it is finding an opportunity where they are aware of this situation and are willing to provide some training along the way.

With regards to the execution of deals, I make the price for the client and each one is squared at the time of striking the deal... on occasion I may run the position if the market is moving the right way but never longer than overnight (technically we are not supposed to though but you can't blame me for wanting to earn a bit more on a transaction) Do not have a risk book don't know what one is?

Have not approached may big shops yet but this is the impression I have got so far... this has not been helped by a recruitment agent who will remain nameless trying to shoe horn me into a similar role to what I am in at the moment for less money but with a bigger company and saying I need to do this as a stepping stone to a big shop/bank... T*sser!!!

I am not a stupid guy so I am being realistic about my ability... at the moment I don’t have the exposure and experience dealing with all areas of the market but given half the chance and a bit of guidance I know I can pick it up and be bl*ody good at it... trouble is I am struggling to find an opportunity that will allow me to do this...?!?!?

 

[Rapster]

Rapster,

I presume your success results from providing a good service to your clients (or it could mean your a good bull-stthier). That being the case, make sure you have a personal record of all your clients details - contact names, addresses, tel no's, etc. Don't let on to your employers.

With a good client base, you can go anywhere. Many firms try to stop this but are clients happy with a firm or individual? If you walk, they'll follow.

If you're looking outside fx, you'll need to study for the relevant exams but in the meantime, maintain contact (informally) with clients.

I suspect your fx clients trade other markets, certainly the corporate side - eg hedging via futures, options, forwards, swaps.

Use your imagination and creativity - as a salesman, this shouldn't be difficult. Get a (used) copy of D A Dubofsky's Options and Financial Futures (highly recommended) and his Derivatives: Valuation and Risk Management. I haven't read the latter but would recommend it based on his first book. Look here:

http://amazon.co.uk/gp/search?searc...ing=&mysubmitbutton1.x=15&mysubmitbutton1.y=8

An option, prior to qualification, is to become an Introducing Agent for a firm but you need to tread warily. Basically, your clients become clients of the firm and you receive a split on comm's. As a minimum I would insist on being present in the office (won' cost them anything).

Grant.

Hi Grant,

Success is down to both factors... am very customer focused building rapport and trust etc... with clients. But as in any sales job there is an element of spin... I do make a point of never lying however I see nothing wrong with manipulating facts and figures to show what you want them to show. Do have a record of all my clients however if my employer ever got wind that I had taken it he has a lot of money and a very good lawyer and would do all in his power to make life hell... he has done it before!!!

At the moment would like to stay in FX but if I can’t find the right opportunity then would be willing to look further a field... have already done what you have said, looked at entry level position as an account opener for some CFD firms and stock brokers but the pay is absolute pants and most of them seem to be boiler rooms (not sure if I am looking in the wrong place or if all places are like this???)

I hear what you are saying about reading up on futures options swaps etc but there will still be no evidence of experience in these areas on my CV... suggestions please...?

 

[grantx]

Rapster,

My point re recommended reading (a bit of alliteration, there) was to identify hitherto unrealised areas which you – or indeed, your clients – could exploit. In other words, expanding potential business with existing clients.

Re the “very good lawyer”. And I bet you know some things which your boss would not like aired in court.

Who put that face at the top of my last post?

Grant.

 

[Rapster]

Any more for any more... suggestions please...?

 

[Lord Flasheart]

If your so good why not trade for yourself. Im sure youve got a spare 10k to use from your earnings with that you could easily do 10 contracts at a time.You could also posr your trades so we can all get on board

 

[Rapster]

Hi Julian,

HAve thought abouth this but not sure on the returns you can get... have not looked into it properly... What do you mean by posting my trades so you can get on board...? (if this is a stupid question i appologise but like i said at teh beginning am new to this so am not up to speed on all the lingo...?)

 

[jiggly]

it is very difficult moving into buy side trading......I currently run my own positions trading over the long term, and I have found difficulty just to get an interview even with a decent track record.

forget recruitment consultants, their duty is to fill jobs for their clients based on what the exact requirements are in the remit..... if they want x, y and z then the consultant must provide this, recruitment consultants find people already doing the job and try to tempt them away somehow into the client firm. you are better off apply direct to companies, or for positions which state the experiences you have.

buy side and sell side trading are different things in my opinion, one is one of the hardest mental games in the world, where you will need to build skills to build skills, the other is a sales job, and in my opinion, within context absolutely minimal if not any relation to each other what so ever. just because you are good and excel on the sell side does not mean this can be used as a bench mark for your potential success if you move into the buy side......buy side is completely alien to all who have not attempted to trade before, it does not matter what field you come from...it is alien.

I would suggest that if it is something that you really want to do then you should take control and start learning off your own back like the majority who want to move into this area, as you are essentially thinking about a complete career change....

good luck and i look forward to hearing about your thoughts on my suggestions

 

[JP1966]

Hi Julian,

HAve thought abouth this but not sure on the returns you can get... have not looked into it properly... What do you mean by posting my trades so you can get on board...? (if this is a stupid question i appologise but like i said at teh beginning am new to this so am not up to speed on all the lingo...?)

In all seriousness send me your CV if you like.

I am not at a big firm but you could do a bit of what you are currently doing and also do some trading in FX and futures. If the trading is working well you could then concentrate on that.

 

[Lord Flasheart]

To get on board means to follow the others as in "get on the plane" so im saying tell us what the trdaes are and we can all follow and make money

 

[Finn2008]

Hi Rapster - sounds like you have a problem. I assume you want to become more prop oriented, which I assume your firm doesn't do? If you were in Equities this would be less of a problem, since at most I-banks there is more crossover between Sales and Trading on the Equity side. I can only recommend jazzing up your CV and trying to meet someone on the inside of an I-bank, and, pretty critically, getting a track record together to back up your case that you can make the move from Sales to Trading. I understand it is quite hard to do.
F