Starting to get 'Please Wait for a Quote' after making 150% return

timsk

Legendary member
7,604 2,377
. . . I'll continue to jump in and out of threads and hopefully will provide some information to you all that you may not have been aware of . . .
Amen to that!
(y)

highbury fx - would I be correct in thinking that you work within the industry? If so, may I ask in what capacity?
Tim.
 

highbury fx

Well-known member
338 114
So far as I know there is only one way - open an account with a good sb company or a proper broker.

I wouldn't listen too much from others giving you all sort of excuses why they shouldn't execute your orders. They are supposed to execute them straight away unless they want to artificially reduce your profits/make you lose money.

City Index are a good sb company. As far as I am aware they are professional, ethical and have good capital adequacy. I have no association with City Index.

This is not about making excuses for orders not being executed instantly. I will try and help you understand how s/b firms think and operate. We have already established they invest millions of pounds in ensuring they have the hardware and resource to compete. They will commit to huge marketing spends in their pursuit to on board clients to their platforms where they invariably offer tight spreads, low margins and free trading tools on thousands of products, 24 hours per day. They spend a lot of money to acquire the client on to a platform they consider to have everything the retail trader needs to have a good experience. The SB firm in return expects to have a good opportunity to make money.

If the spread bet firm has reason to think that any of their clients are acting in a way that they do not like they will take steps to protect their investment. There are a couple of ways to do that but putting clients on dealer referral is the preferred method as it shows you in real time what the client is doing rather than waiting for some post trade analysis and acting retrospectively. If the client is trading on (what the s/b firm considers to be) the correct price then the s/b firm will put him back on auto fill but may re-categorise him as A book. If the client is dealing on latent or incorrect prices what do you expect the s/b firm to do? clearly they won't let him continue to make money that way. They'll tell him to stop, if he doesn't they're at liberty to close his account.

This is very very rare. Most accounts will go straight through with no prob, but the ones that are unprofessional are the ones that will have steps taken against them and those 'traders' do not like that. Spreadbet firms are not there for these people to just help themselves to money. They are there as a fantastic way for retail traders to access markets with great spreads and play those markets with a fair chance of winning, and fortunately there are tens and tens of thousands in this country that enjoy doing that every day.
 

gle101

Veteren member
3,717 84
If you are on dealer referral it is definitely time to move on. No reason to stay or ask them as your experience of delayed execution is correct. Don't think you can continue winning with this kind of illegal manipulation, this game is hard enough without it. There are others around that might suite you better. With that kind of stake size I am surprise that you trade SB, if you have enough capital with proper money management the real market is the place to be.

If you like to stay with SB look for companies with a very fast price feed and instant execution, a company that don't blame your winnings on a crappy and lagging price feed. Not many around, I know, the only way to find out is to try them out to see if they can deliver a good and lasting service.
 

highbury fx

Well-known member
338 114
If you are on dealer referral it is definitely time to move on. . Don't think you can continue winning with this kind of illegal manipulation, this game is hard enough without it. There are others around that might suite you better. With that kind of stake size I am surprise that you trade SB, if you have enough capital with proper money management the real market is the place to be.

If you like to stay with SB look for companies with a very fast price feed and instant execution, a company that don't blame your winnings on a crappy and lagging price feed. Not many around, I know, the only way to find out is to try them out to see if they can deliver a good and lasting service.

so many things wrong with your post

1. Putting a clients orders on to manual referral is not illegal.

2. £25 a point of FTSE is not big enough to raise a red flag at ANY spreadbet firm

3. "The only way to find out is to try them out" is probably the worst advice ever. Yes, try them all out, theres only hundreds of them to get through.
 
N

neil324

0 0
What's 'A' book. Where the broker shadows the customers trades?
 

gle101

Veteren member
3,717 84
so many things wrong with your post

1. Putting a clients orders on to manual referral is not illegal.

2. £25 a point of FTSE is not big enough to raise a red flag at ANY spreadbet firm

3. "The only way to find out is to try them out" is probably the worst advice ever. Yes, try them all out, theres only hundreds of them to get through.
I would say it is the other way around.:)

1. According the MiFID best execution directive it is not allowed.

2. It has happened to me with Cityindex with only £1.

3. Absolutely no reason to stay if you feel you don't get a fair and good service.
 
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highbury fx

Well-known member
338 114
I would say it is the other way around.:)

1. According the MiFID best execution directive it is not allowed.

2. It has happened to me with Cityindex with only £1.

3. Absolutely no reason to stay if you feel you don't get a fair and good service.

I'm not getting in to tit for tat but briefly

1. Companies have the right to protect themselves from clients they suspect are hurting them. Every trading firm (forget just spreadbet firms) that warehouses risk will analyse each client and take steps to protect themselves from clients that are costly.

2. That says more about your 'trading' style than it does about City Index. It means you have upset them so much to the extent they put your £1 per point trades on manual referral. it is definitely time to take your own advice and move on.

3. I agree 100%. You're the consumer, its your money, take it where its appreciated.
 

highbury fx

Well-known member
338 114
What's 'A' book. Where the broker shadows the customers trades?

in the context of spreadbetting B book trades are the client trades that the spreadbet company assumes the risk on. The B book has predefined limits set for each individual product and an overall limit for all risk. The risk limits on the B book will change depending on the centre that is open, for example, the B book will have smaller limits at 2am in London than it will at 2pm. B book clients are hedged when the limits are busted and the spreadbet firm has to go in to the underlying market and trade to reduce their exposure.

A book trades are the client trades that are hedged in the market. This is normally for 1 of 2 reasons... 1, the client is very profitable and the s/b firm acts as an agency broker and captures commission rather than the loss.. 2, the client deals in a size that busts the B book limits regularly and will therefore usually require a hedge against it.

There are great tools for A book hedging. The s/b firm can elect to hedge 100% of the deal or a lesser amount if the client has tendencies to lose and a larger percentage if the client is mustard.
 
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gle101

Veteren member
3,717 84
I'm not getting in to tit for tat but briefly

1. Companies have the right to protect themselves from clients they suspect are hurting them. Every trading firm (forget just spreadbet firms) that warehouses risk will analyse each client and take steps to protect themselves from clients that are costly.

2. That says more about your 'trading' style than it does about City Index. It means you have upset them so much to the extent they put your £1 per point trades on manual referral. it is definitely time to take your own advice and move on.

3. I agree 100%. You're the consumer, its your money, take it where its appreciated.
Well I knew you would get personal. stay with facts and try to look at both sides of the issue.
 

Liquid-Ocelot

Newbie
7 0
Well same thing happened again today. I tried to close out at £200, didn't let me close out until I was at £50 profit. I think i'm pushing my luck at this point, that was probably my last trade with City Index. Speed of execution is everything with my trading style.

Made an account with IG yesterday, just need to send ID details and they should open my account. Also trying out Prospreads demo account. The only differences I can see so far is that the margin is much higher (70 times your stake whereas City Index is only 30) and the spread is also 1.5 overall (0.5 base spread and 0.5 when buying and selling). This will effectively halve my growth rate but it will be worth it if the execution is always instant. But that's the question - is the execution always instant? I can't find many reviews of this place.

I may call City Index to find out exactly why I was put on dealer referral, i've got nothing to lose at this point.
 

highbury fx

Well-known member
338 114
Well I knew you would get personal. stay with facts and try to look at both sides of the issue.

its not personal at all, I actually like your posts. I'll give you my side of it and you're welcome to take it or leave it.

Dealer referral can be based on size or client profile. Whats the difference? I'll tell you. The spreadbet firm may have an online autofill limit for USD/JPY of £250 per point, any trade attempt above this will alert the desk and needs to be approved by the dealer. client profile - If the s/b firms experience of a particular client is negative they may place him on dealer referral to keep an eye on their trading frequency. In this case regardless of the deal size, each deal you do will need to be eyeballed. You were on manual at city index because of your profile.

its not me who got personal with you, it was city :)
 

tar

Legendary member
10,443 1,313
Well same thing happened again today. I tried to close out at £200, didn't let me close out until I was at £50 profit. I think i'm pushing my luck at this point, that was probably my last trade with City Index. Speed of execution is everything with my trading style.

Made an account with IG yesterday, just need to send ID details and they should open my account. Also trying out Prospreads demo account. The only differences I can see so far is that the margin is much higher (70 times your stake whereas City Index is only 30) and the spread is also 1.5 overall (0.5 base spread and 0.5 when buying and selling). This will effectively halve my growth rate but it will be worth it if the execution is always instant. But that's the question - is the execution always instant? I can't find many reviews of this place.

I may call City Index to find out exactly why I was put on dealer referral, i've got nothing to lose at this point.

It seems it is costing you every day , just move on , there are many alternatives out there , you may would like to try futures instead , or as i said earlier try IG , maybe Oanda cfds as well ... What about Lmax ?
 

gle101

Veteren member
3,717 84
Well same thing happened again today. I tried to close out at £200, didn't let me close out until I was at £50 profit. I think i'm pushing my luck at this point, that was probably my last trade with City Index. Speed of execution is everything with my trading style.

Made an account with IG yesterday, just need to send ID details and they should open my account. Also trying out Prospreads demo account. The only differences I can see so far is that the margin is much higher (70 times your stake whereas City Index is only 30) and the spread is also 1.5 overall (0.5 base spread and 0.5 when buying and selling). This will effectively halve my growth rate but it will be worth it if the execution is always instant. But that's the question - is the execution always instant? I can't find many reviews of this place.

I may call City Index to find out exactly why I was put on dealer referral, i've got nothing to lose at this point.
Yes absolutely the right thing to do, moving on. They are manipulating your individual account. They are not allowed to do this according to the MiFID financial directive. If they are not pleased with you trading style they should close your account, that would at least be a fair action from their side.
 

Liquid-Ocelot

Newbie
7 0
I've actually started to notice a pattern, they let me open instantly whenever I want, it's just that they won't let me close until at least after a minute.
 

gle101

Veteren member
3,717 84
its not personal at all, I actually like your posts. I'll give you my side of it and you're welcome to take it or leave it.

Dealer referral can be based on size or client profile. Whats the difference? I'll tell you. The spreadbet firm may have an online autofill limit for USD/JPY of £250 per point, any trade attempt above this will alert the desk and needs to be approved by the dealer. client profile - If the s/b firms experience of a particular client is negative they may place him on dealer referral to keep an eye on their trading frequency. In this case regardless of the deal size, each deal you do will need to be eyeballed. You were on manual at city index because of your profile.

its not me who got personal with you, it was city :)
I am quite satisfied with the few SB companies that I am at the present trading with. But I am totally against individual manipulation, the kind that Liquid-Ocelot is experiencing.
 
 
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