schooloftrade & James Wave

[fantastic4]

I don't think he's an idiot, and he's doing a good service by exposing this. He's probably already helped some one avoid losing their money.

 

[er2wizard]

yep, ego dictates blaming others for ones own shortcomings. until he lets go, he might as well blame any other educator he comes into contact with for his inability to be profitable, and just add them to the list.

 

[er2wizard]

all i am saying is that this anger is eating lloyd alive, and i'm sure it's affecting his ability to trade with a clear vision. my opinion would be, that it's time to let go and move on. either that or change professions from trading to law.

 

[cataquil]

er2wizard, this is exactly what JJ wants...why is it the customer who has to deal with the blow and ignore this SCAM. I understand in a sense what you mean in regards to moving on after you make a mistake in trading...holding onto anger is not going to help your trading in the moment. Still I think Lloyd's persistance in this matter is highly commendable. How many countless potential customers have been spared from JJ's slimy disregard for humanity and selfish greedy immoral marketing and selling manipulation. Yeah move on, forget it, it is only 4 grand yada yada, this is trading..., get real, when u go by item which cost 4k, say a motorcycle, if it doesn't work you get a refund, you complain to the seller or manufacturer of this item. Why is JJ's course any different...he should be brought to task about this, and to see him to continue his each day goes to show what a minefield the trading education/system vendor space is. We should keep this thread live. What really angers me is how he got Mirus Futures to showcase his education...that alone brought many sheep to the slaughter house to line this guys pockets.

Glad at least to see this thread show up right under JJ's site in the google search. Show us the money JJ...show us your DOM, prove that you are not just taking every breakout and only showing the winners...you disgusting leech....I hope you get what is coming to you.

 

[er2wizard]

er2wizard, this is exactly what JJ wants...why is it the customer who has to deal with the blow and ignore this SCAM. I understand in a sense what you mean in regards to moving on after you make a mistake in trading...holding onto anger is not going to help your trading in the moment. Still I think Lloyd's persistance in this matter is highly commendable. How many countless potential customers have been spared from JJ's slimy disregard for humanity and selfish greedy immoral marketing and selling manipulation. Yeah move on, forget it, it is only 4 grand yada yada, this is trading...bull****, get real, when u go by item which cost 4k, say a motorcycle, if it doesn't work you get a refund, you complain to the seller or manufacturer of this item. Why is JJ's course any different...he should be brought to task about this, and to see him to continue his bull**** each day goes to show what a minefield the trading education/system vendor space is. We should keep this thread live. What really angers me is how he got Mirus Futures to showcase his education...that alone brought many sheep to the slaughter house to line this guys pockets.

Glad at least to see this thread show up right under JJ's site in the google search. Show us the money JJ...show us your DOM, prove that you are not just taking every breakout and only showing the winners...you disgusting leech....I hope you get what is coming to you.

You too miss the point. You say you understand it, but yet you miss it. NOT UNTIL you allow yourself to get to the point of moving on INSTANTLY, and not looking back, will ANYONE become a consistently profitable trader. 90% of retail traders WILL lose money and blow out their account. Without the proper mentality, which accounts for 80% of a traders success, will a trader ever reach that 10% category. Just trying to help Lloyd get his groove on. He will not achieve his trading goals with that mental hangup.

 

[LloydH]

Unfortunately we have to allow the nonsense posts from er2wizard who as cataquil rightly points out is so obviously engaged in the usual corrupted "why can you move on" garbage sales pitch these conmem use when ripped of clients come asking for explanations. er2wizard your posts are nonsense, you ignore the fact and subject matter and spew , get of the thread because people reading this want facts not lies.

You too miss the point. You say you understand it, but yet you miss it. NOT UNTIL you allow yourself to get to the point of moving on INSTANTLY, and not looking back, will ANYONE become a consistently profitable trader. 90% of retail traders WILL lose money and blow out their account. Without the proper mentality, which accounts for 80% of a traders success, will a trader ever reach that 10% category. Just trying to help Lloyd get his groove on. He will not achieve his trading goals with that mental hangup.

 

[er2wizard]

Unfortunately we have to allow the nonsense posts from er2wizard who as cataquil rightly points out is so obviously engaged in the usual corrupted "why can you move on" garbage sales pitch these conmem use when ripped of clients come asking for explanations. er2wizard your posts are nonsense, you ignore the fact and subject matter and spew bull****, get of the thread because people reading this want facts not lies.

Obviously you are a competitor of the company in question. You are by no means a trader. And if in fact you are under that illusion, my trading account thanks you for your contributions. You discuss nothing about trading. Only bashing someone that you feel stole your money. ohhhhh woe is me....boo fricken hooooo.....everybody look at me...............Grow up and get over it..........but then again, maybe they are paying you pretty good dollar to continue your crusade.

 

[LloydH]

It is very clear from all my postings, blogs, internets site etc. who I am, I do not hide behind an anonymous alias. Its a clear fact that I am NOT a competitor to SOT but I am an ex member of SOT who is telling his story. First point in fact that you post lies er2wiard, nobody wants to listen to you, get lost.

Obviously you are a competitor of the company in question. You are by no means a trader. And if in fact you are under that illusion, my trading account thanks you for your contributions. You discuss nothing about trading. Only bashing someone that you feel stole your money. ohhhhh woe is me....boo fricken hooooo.....everybody look at me...............Grow up and get over it..........but then again, maybe they are paying you pretty good dollar to continue your crusade.

 

[teddy55]

So all these thousand dollar days JJ claims to have using his advanced method aren't real?

Maybe someone can explain to me how when he has a big 47 tick trade on Gold that makes $470 how that could be faked. When something moves that much, you can't be complaining about getting in a few ticks late, right?

Granted alot of his trades seem to be smaller moves where getting in without slip is important. But still. Friday he had 2 big 47 tick winners in gold.

The bad news is he says the price of his membership is going up in May. :-0

 

[LloydH]

teddy55, wow another price rise, did you guys not just do one at the beginning of the year already!?

No one has said the trades are fake; My video explains why SOT publicise FAKE trading results, let me explain it to you again.

1. SIM trades will produce different entry and fill prices to trades taken on a live account and therefore the profit and loss will be quite different.
2. JJ takes every trade that looks any good to him, when he has called it wrong he hides them from view. His hidden losses will be considerable and vary day to day. Of course he will hit the big winning trades now and then because he is getting into so many trades without fear of losing. He is able to trade like this because he trades in SIM and is entering trades off screen. In the real world his 47 ticks will have been more than wiped out with a string of losing trades.

So all these thousand dollar days JJ claims to have using his advanced method aren't real?

Maybe someone can explain to me how when he has a big 47 tick trade on Gold that makes $470 how that could be faked. When something moves that much, you can't be complaining about getting in a few ticks late, right?

Granted alot of his trades seem to be smaller moves where getting in without slip is important. But still. Friday he had 2 big 47 tick winners in gold.

The bad news is he says the price of his membership is going up in May. :-0

 

[teddy55]

As to your first point, that may be true but that's general knowledge so JJ shouldn't need to tell people that as long as they know he's on SIM. Which I think they should be able to figure out. After a while anyway.

As to point #2, let's see the proof. While it may be true, you got to bring more goods to the table than just accusation. All your video does is show an instance where it appears JJ "forgets" about a trade that he said to take that loses? That's not exactly what you're saying below though where you claim he does "off-screen"trading.

Yes, JJ does appear to have very good trading results. That should simply make people very very skeptical from the get go. But other than that, I don't know that anything has been proven.

Lastly, I don't think JJ's personal trading account is anyone's business, honestly and I seriously doubt he's going to show it to anyone anyway. That's about as far as that will go.

teddy55, wow another price rise, did you guys not just do one at the beginning of the year already!?

No one has said the trades are fake; My video explains why SOT publicise FAKE trading results, let me explain it to you again.

1. SIM trades will produce different entry and fill prices to trades taken on a live account and therefore the profit and loss will be quite different.
2. JJ takes every trade that looks any good to him, when he has called it wrong he hides them from view. His hidden losses will be considerable and vary day to day. Of course he will hit the big winning trades now and then because he is getting into so many trades without fear of losing. He is able to trade like this because he trades in SIM and is entering trades off screen. In the real world his 47 ticks will have been more than wiped out with a string of losing trades.

 

[teddy55]

As well, while I think that most people would agree that it's a little unethical to take trades off-screen and only pull them on chart when they look good, is there any law against that? And how would one prove that he was doing that? Subpoena his demo account trading record?? I guess JJ is free to run his live trading room however he wishes. And people can either trust his stuff or not. That's about the bottom line.

I'm sorry that you lost some money with something that didn't work out for you but you've probably helped alot of people take a second thought before joining in with JJ as well. So congrats.

[*]JJ takes every trade that looks any good to him, when he has called it wrong he hides them from view. His hidden losses will be considerable and vary day to day. Of course he will hit the big winning trades now and then because he is getting into so many trades without fear of losing. He is able to trade like this because he trades in SIM and is entering trades off screen. In the real world his 47 ticks will have been more than wiped out with a string of losing trades.
[/LIST]

 

[LloydH]

teddy55, did you even read this thread before posting?

Early on in this thread you will find reference to my first video, which provides details of how JJ falsely maintained he traded a LIVE account. Of course JJ was exposed and has long since stopped trying to maintain he trades LIVE. So the point is JJ was deceiving his clients and lying about how he was trading.

Also, please take a read through the comments on this thread readers, plenty of people who have seen JJ slip up and reveal his nasty little off screen trading habits by accident! http://united-business-servicing.pi...rade-com-sot-joseph-james-20101025204102.html

As to your first point, that may be true but that's general knowledge so JJ shouldn't need to tell people that as long as they know he's on SIM. Which I think they should be able to figure out. After a while anyway.

As to point #2, let's see the proof. While it may be true, you got to bring more goods to the table than just accusation. All your video does is show an instance where it appears JJ "forgets" about a trade that he said to take that loses? That's not exactly what you're saying below though where you claim he does "off-screen"trading.

Yes, JJ does appear to have very good trading results. That should simply make people very very skeptical from the get go. But other than that, I don't know that anything has been proven.

Lastly, I don't think JJ's personal trading account is anyone's business, honestly and I seriously doubt he's going to show it to anyone anyway. That's about as far as that will go.

 

[teddy55]

Your "first video" is that this one?

(JJTalkingRealMoney.mp4 ) He talks numbers but never said specifically that he was trading a live account during that audio. He still talks the same way too, it's just the way he works. I don't see how anyone could end up assuming he was trading live by just listening to that. He doesn't say he was trading live. yes, he makes it sound like people can make that money but that's different than claiming he made this exact money using a live account. if he's going to sign up people into his service, don't you think that he has to try and make it sound as good as possible? That's what selling is all about. And that's why you see Forex systems being claimed to make $1000 per day they will tell you that in bold letters. maybe we are witchhunting here a little bit too much.

teddy55, did you even read this thread before posting?

Early on in this thread you will find reference to my first video, which provides details of how JJ falsely maintained he traded a LIVE account. Of course JJ was exposed and has long since stopped trying to maintain he trades LIVE. So the point is JJ was deceiving his clients and lying about how he was trading.

Also, please take a read through the comments on this thread readers, plenty of people who have seen JJ slip up and reveal his nasty little off screen trading habits by accident! http://united-business-servicing.pi...rade-com-sot-joseph-james-20101025204102.html

 

[FromEurope]

I see recent updates to the SOT terms and conditions. Well, all these disclaimers have been added by SOT since I started campaigning against their fraudulent practices over a year ago and no doubt as a result of some unwanted attention from the CFTC. I now see SOT is making statements like..

"The chat room is for online educational purposes only. It is not to be misunderstood as a trading room. Such as a room giving signals for trading real money. We request that our students follow our trades using a simulator as we do"
...
What about all the people that already handed over money their money to this scam artist prior to these new disclaimers being issued, surely my case is now proven beyond doubt?

Thank you for making this post! I was about to join his trade room, but your post has opened my eyes! Thanks a thousand times!

 

[Jepe]

Teddy55, I am victims of JJ as well. See my comments here:

http://united-business-servicing.pi...rade-com-sot-joseph-james-20101025204102.html

My intention to write here is to prevent other peole from losing money. If you don't agree with me, it is your choice. I can show you all my email communications with JJ if you want me to. You will see that i have given him a lot of chance to come clean but he chose not to.

 

[dcolli10]

I just read this whole thread and agree completely with what the OP has exposed.

I joined the trial after seeing countless trading video's on youtube(Looking to learn something new, possibly). and Ill post my results as follows. I trade only on Mondays as my work week allows so these results are for 3 days with the room.

Day One,
I followed just the fast track trades that were called in the room. I trade a very similar strategy on the E-Mini Russell and wanted to see if there was anything I could learn from his trading. I also made the switch from P&F charts to Range charts like another poster mentioned, much easier to read the price action and without the room I may not have done the switch.

There were 5 total fast tracks for the day and I ended up loosing about $35 including commissions, while the room made $200-$300 for the day. I got 2 winners, 2 losers and a scratch with slippage on one trade if I remember right. My main issue with the calls was that I would get into a trade and immediately after the trigger price was hit, it was called in the room that this is high risk and that JJ was not in the trade yet. OK, he is trading the advanced method and not the FT, so I give him the benefit of the doubt. But what got me was just like everyone elses complaints in that his fill price was 5 ticks below the market getting him his first target and then stopping him out at breakeven on bad trades. Never is there a full stop out on his trades. But I get filled without the market going one tick into profit. OK so I call the day a scratch and try it the next week.

Day 2 turned out to be great. Took 4 FT trades, the fifth got away and I was slow on clicking so I didn't chase. And I walked away with $400. Perked my interest a little more.

Day 3 was a disaster, Took 3 FT trades that were all called "High Risk" either before of after the trade was called. So it was up to me to take the trade. They all resulted in JJ either not taking the trade or getting scratched out at break even.

So the room posts $700-900 profits(Depending on if you take the "High Risk" trades) for the days that I traded and I end up about break even by comparison.

From what I can tell from my own experience, is that Yes, JJ is trading a SIM, I can watch the T&S window like anyone and see that 4 lots are not appearing when JJ announces that he is in. And it doesnt matter if it prints as four 1 lots, a 1 and 3 lot, or two 2 lots. When I saw trades called there was no combination of 4 contracts hitting the market. So after knowing that he does not have a live account, I decided not to buy the membership.

Furthermore, I do believe that his youtube posts can be beneficial to a beginner to watch after SIM trading the market themselves. But there is plenty of material available for free that doesn't warrant a $3700 course, Noone should be spending their hard earned money for material that is available for free. Oh and, no records, even sim records via the Ninjatrader account performance tab is pretty pathetic.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that he uses a momentum indicator that he uses STRICT rules with but from what I recall many trades were taken regardless of what momentum was showing.

 

[LloydH]

No teddy, of course it is not my first video! You Tube clearly marks the date on which the videos are posted right next to them. Second to this, if you have even watched the video you would know that the first slide after the disclaimer clearly states it is the 4th video in the series. Sorry but it is obvious that you are just coming on this thread posting vague nonsense trying to distract readers from what is being put forward here.

For the benefit of the readers, my first 2 videos clearly explain the problem of JJ and his false claim surrounding SIM and LIVE trading, the video referred to here is merely supporting evidence provided in addition to the earlier videos.

Finally teddy55, you seem desperate to try and defend SOT despite numerous recent posts from individuals confirming SOT is a scam, why would that be I wonder?, do you work for them?

Your "first video" is that this one?

(JJTalkingRealMoney.mp4 ) He talks numbers but never said specifically that he was trading a live account during that audio. He still talks the same way too, it's just the way he works. I don't see how anyone could end up assuming he was trading live by just listening to that. He doesn't say he was trading live. yes, he makes it sound like people can make that money but that's different than claiming he made this exact money using a live account. if he's going to sign up people into his service, don't you think that he has to try and make it sound as good as possible? That's what selling is all about. And that's why you see Forex systems being claimed to make $1000 per day they will tell you that in bold letters. maybe we are witchhunting here a little bit too much.

 

[bigedmoneytradescalp]

Lloyd I am also a member and i have been following this post as well. It seems to me that you have a reason to be upset as you feel you have been ripped off as he is trading on a sim account rather than a live account. But what really bothers me is reading the countless comments about the value of JJ's course and you just accuse them as working for them. That is about as ignorant as me saying that you must work for some other trading company, because you disagree with teddy55. Is there a possibility that there are traders out there that trade SOT trading system and are pleased with it, and are profitable? We have heard your opinion a hundred times, you don't like what SOT has to offer, that is fine you have the right to your opinion. But there are people out there that are trading SOT's method and making money, I am proof of that. I made money in my free trial taking the trades he called live. I understand that JJ is trading on a SIM account, I read that in the terms and conditions BEFORE i purchased my membership. He sells an education, he has a huge archive of training videos that you can't get for free. I learned how to use ninja trader and how to manipulate my charts just how i like them very quickly. I just got done setting up my auto trader that looks very promising. I have become more disciplined trader and wouldn't be as good as a trader as i am right now if i wouldn't have joined. Thats the bottom line, FOR ME. That is my experience and that is my opinion and just like you, I have the right to state my opinion. We have all heard your story lloyd...and one more thing, in your last post you said...

"Sorry but it is obvious that you are just coming on this thread posting vague nonsense trying to distract readers from what is being put forward here."

You said to teddy that he is posting nonsense and that he was trying to distract readers when actually you are the one that is desperately trying to distract readers and have them not join the SOT, when the purpose of this forum is not that. If you recall the first post it states:

"Hello everyone, I've been considering to join the School of trade (SchoolOfTrade.com; Learn to Trade Futures, FOREX & Stocks with the James Wave System), it sounds like a good way to start my trading career. The price is $3299 for a lifetime membership. Does anyone have any experience with them? Thanks for sharing!"

As you can read the post asks for you to post your experience with the SOT. You have posted your experience, now you are posting nonsense comments answering all the comments like you are some kind of moderator. To be honest with you from an outside eye you are the one that looks kind of desperate. Time to move on lloyd, you have stated your opinion and experience just as I have, now let the readers read and let the traders comment and that way people can make an educated decision if SOT is right for them, which it is not right for everybody and i am sure that people have had bad experiences with them just as other people have had good experiences with them.

 

[LloydH]

bigedmoneytradescalp,

As we see confirmed in post #87 on this thread, JJ & his friends at SOT come on these forums and post positive comments pretending to be satisfied clients. Not surprisingly these comments usually come from "new members" offering their first post. "Time to move on Lloyd" is a favoured comment of his.

Please let us know when you joined SOT, are you prepared to offer us some evidence that you make money trading SOT methods, as you say you are ?

Looking at the facts, as yet nobody who claimed to be making money using SOT methods has shown evidence to prove it. Even JJ himself is not prepared to show any form of hard evidence like a NT performance report to back his profit claims.

Funny enough, every time I ask someone who claims to be happy with SOT and making money using their methods I see the same thing. They go quite and are NEVER prepared to offer any evidence to back their claims.

So bigedmoneytradescalp, the request went to JJ himself in post #70 to resolve this thread and come forward with the evidence , he could not, now its down to you, as Ingot54 requested, we eagerly await an authenticated broker statement, with the trades verified.

Lloyd I am also a member and i have been following this post as well. It seems to me that you have a reason to be upset as you feel you have been ripped off as he is trading on a sim account rather than a live account. But what really bothers me is reading the countless comments about the value of JJ's course and you just accuse them as working for them. That is about as ignorant as me saying that you must work for some other trading company, because you disagree with teddy55. Is there a possibility that there are traders out there that trade SOT trading system and are pleased with it, and are profitable? We have heard your opinion a hundred times, you don't like what SOT has to offer, that is fine you have the right to your opinion. But there are people out there that are trading SOT's method and making money, I am proof of that. I made money in my free trial taking the trades he called live. I understand that JJ is trading on a SIM account, I read that in the terms and conditions BEFORE i purchased my membership. He sells an education, he has a huge archive of training videos that you can't get for free. I learned how to use ninja trader and how to manipulate my charts just how i like them very quickly. I just got done setting up my auto trader that looks very promising. I have become more disciplined trader and wouldn't be as good as a trader as i am right now if i wouldn't have joined. Thats the bottom line, FOR ME. That is my experience and that is my opinion and just like you, I have the right to state my opinion. We have all heard your story lloyd...and one more thing, in your last post you said...

"Sorry but it is obvious that you are just coming on this thread posting vague nonsense trying to distract readers from what is being put forward here."

You said to teddy that he is posting nonsense and that he was trying to distract readers when actually you are the one that is desperately trying to distract readers and have them not join the SOT, when the purpose of this forum is not that. If you recall the first post it states:

"Hello everyone, I've been considering to join the School of trade (SchoolOfTrade.com; Learn to Trade Futures, FOREX & Stocks with the James Wave System), it sounds like a good way to start my trading career. The price is $3299 for a lifetime membership. Does anyone have any experience with them? Thanks for sharing!"

As you can read the post asks for you to post your experience with the SOT. You have posted your experience, now you are posting nonsense comments answering all the comments like you are some kind of moderator. To be honest with you from an outside eye you are the one that looks kind of desperate. Time to move on lloyd, you have stated your opinion and experience just as I have, now let the readers read and let the traders comment and that way people can make an educated decision if SOT is right for them, which it is not right for everybody and i am sure that people have had bad experiences with them just as other people have had good experiences with them.