Scalping FTSE/DAX spread betting

[newspreadbetter]

New to the forum, so hello one and all

is this a common trading strategy? Relatively new to spread betting, been doing it for 6 months and am feeling a little more confident. (I realise this comes with time, and experience, both good and bad).
This last 5 days I've been in and out of trades daily, throughout the day and snatched close to 400 points (I've made a lot of short trades, time held from a few seconds to maybe 15 minutes maximum, I'm lucky in that I am desk based at work 95% of my working day. Average this week of 11 trades/bets a day). I still only do the minimum value, £2 a point with my company.

Is this called scalping? And is it a successful way of spread betting? Genuinely interested.

Like I said, I am new to this, still extremely cautious (I'm a tight git) which I think explains my 'preference' to only have a trade/bet open for a few minutes. At present, I prefer to 'grab' (or scalp, if its called that) a few points/£'s in a few minutes rather than hold on for the longer trades.

Any opinions guys (and girls)?

 

[jeffre4]

lol

 

[itspossible]

lol

 

[Steven2805]

Yes your scalping..

In terms of popularity I really don't know.

Is it a successful way, who am I to say which way will give you success. In all honesty your the better judge of the success than me you have been trading it after all.

I would give a word a caution to remember risk levels and to build some sort of plan. I also heard that some brokers close accounts for scalpers so that's perhaps worth looking into.

 

[Trader333]

Attempting to successfully scalp with a SB company is not possible in my and you would need to have a direct access account.

 

[postman]

Dont listen to old grumpy pants aka Trader333 get it any way you can.

You've made 400 points in 5 days scalping through a spread betting company and you do a 9-5.
Tell us more, were all ears. :whistling

 

[alexaherself]

Attempting to successfully scalp with a SB company is not possible in my ...

Please excuse the expression of a somewhat dissenting opinion - based on some experience - but in my view that isn't nearly as simple or as categorical as you suggest, Trader333.

Spread-betting companies don't in principle mind your scalping the market, but (understandably) they're not so keen on your scalping them. It therefore depends on whether they're laying off your positions (and/or their own cumulative liabilities) and how efficiently.

As has been fairly extensively discussed here (in this thread among others), it's certainly possible, under some circumstances, to scalp successfully and long-term by spread-betting.

 

[Trader333]

Well I have yet to meet anyone and I mean anyone who has successfuly done so using a SB company. It depends what you mean by scalping but in my book it is taking a tick at a time from the bid ask spread and that is utterly impossible using a SB company because they dont have depth of market ladder capability and they add a spread to the quotes.

The idea that they are laying off your trades for short term traders is simply not true just read their annual reports and you will soon see that they don't hedge for anything other than very large positions where you are required to call them first to do so which is contrary to scalping technique.

If you know otherwise then please post evidence here as I would like to be proved wrong.

 

[alexaherself]

It depends what you mean by scalping but in my book it is taking a tick at a time from the bid ask spread

Then we're all talking at cross-purposes with you, Trader333.

I didn't mean that, when I used the word "scalping", and I'll give you odds of 100/1 that the OP didn't, either.

I think you probably know that, really, and are simply attempting with this "definition" to recover from having made above what members here can plainly see was a wildly inaccurate assertion?

The idea that they are laying off your trades for short term traders is simply not true

You're mistaken: they lay off their own net liabilities (and if you were a shareholder in one, that's exactly what you'd expect and want them to do, too!).

Respectfully, if you're going to offer sweeping generalisations like the one you posted above, then you ought to be the one adducing evidence, rather than challenging others for it just because they have the temerity to disagree with your over-generalised and inaccurate statement.

 

[Trader333]

Then please explain to me why in the annual report of several SB companies within the last 7 years they have previously stated that profits were down against expectations because clients were more successful than had been budgted for ?

That is not possible if bets are hedged and is only possible if they are taking the other side of the trade. Do you really think that with automated trading systems all trades are hedged in a SB company ?

We even had one ex SB exective come on here for a short while and posted exactly why most people lose and that the company he was from didn't hedge any of the standard trades and only those that were large positions where they would make the trader call to place the trade.

 

[tokyojoe]

I remember the thread Trader333 is referring to, it was called "the other side" it was an excellent thread.

The SB companies do not care if you scalp, our orders do not go to the open market.

Spread betting should be treated as it's name suggests, I don''t micro scalp, or at least try not to, as T333 points out the spread & slight price mis quote (or "fair value") make it too much work for me.

Much better to use the SB platform price quote (as it is approx DMA during normal hours) & go for larger moves, which people may still argue is scalping, as it is day trading.

There are people able to micro scalp SB, but it is far too crazy for me.

Holding your nerve once the trade/bet is placed is the real test, if you don't hold your nerve you end up scalping anyway !!

I want to know how Newspreadbetter managed 400 points, fair play to that !!

 

[alexaherself]

Then please explain to me ...

Thanks, but no thanks. I strongly suspect that from your perspective this issue has simply turned into a discussion about "being right". I have no interest in such conversations.

You can be as "right" as you like.

My purpose in posting was simply to mention to the OP, in case it was helpful to him, that in my opinion - based on some experience - what you stated above isn't nearly as simple or as categorical as you claimed.

It's certainly possible, under some circumstances, to scalp successfully and long-term by spread-betting.

Do you really think that with automated trading systems all trades are hedged in a SB company ?

"All"? No; I don't think that. You're the one over-generalising in this conversation. Nice "rhetorical flourish" there, Trader333, but members reading the thread will see for themselves that I neither stated nor even implied that.

For the third and last time, their net liabilities sometimes are, and the reality is therefore not nearly as simple or as categorical as you mistakenly stated above. You can challenge me for "evidence" as often as you like, misquote me as often as you like, and use as much rhetorical bluster as you like, but - moderator or not - you can't change that reality, because it's simply factual. But have the last word, by all means: knock yourself out.

.

 

[Trader333]

This is just a discussion and that is all and sorry if that has irritated you as that was not my intention.

 

[alexaherself]

This is just a discussion and that is all and sorry if that has irritated you as that was not my intention.

Gratefully acknowledged; thank you.

 

[BSD]

Whatcha gotta keep in mind is that spreadbetters have nothing much to do with real markets, the prices they quote are so way off from what's really going down that it's criminal, all they are are like the bucket shops from Jesse Livermores day's that got banned, for the simple but compelling reason that they made money when the customers lost.

Just like todays CFD outfits that are illegal in the US for good reason or the UK's Spreadbetters.

No idea why those clown outfits aren't banned in Europe these days either:

"A few days ago I reported that FXCM was slapped with a class action suit over alleged fraud and racketeering. Today I bring you the full lawsuit document. Here are some of the more interesting details and you can read it in full yourself in the below embedded document.

The Plaintiff, William H. Sanders, claims to have lost over $150,000 to FXCM over the years due. Two main topics the lawsuit deals with is the Demo accounts which serve to attract clients while not simulating real market conditions and when clients do switch to live they receive completely different execution and the execution itself where it is claimed that FXCM is in fact a market maker which actively goes after profitable clients. The main excerpts are below:

Plaintiff, William H. Sanders, just like thousands of other customers, was lured into transacting business with Defendant, FXCM, buying and selling foreign currencies in what is known as the foreign exchange (“Forex”) market, but little did Sanders, or any of the others, know that FXCM intended to, and did, systematically bilk them out of their account money through an elaborate scheme of fraudulent tricks, devices, and artifices. What was represented to Sanders and others as a foreign currency trading platform developed upon professed principles of “fairness, honesty, and integrity,” which was supposedly rooted in providing customers with a true market trading experience, totally devoid of dealer intervention and market manipulation, was in truth a platform predicated upon deceit and trickery that systematically looted the accounts of customers who, like Sanders, placed their trust in FXCM."

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/gen...before-bust-fxcm-lobbied-higher-leverage.html

"Virtual dealer pt1 - a demonstration of Virtual Dealers "Delay" setting, shows how to automatically create slippage with every market order.

This video shows how a broker can easily inject prices into the market to create spikes of various sizes and if needed hunt your stops. This feature is rarely used in the industry at this time. There are much more advanced plugins and tools offered by a number of software companies, whos main purpose is to make a Brokers life easier.

This video demonstrates how a brokers Dealing Desk operates. It can accept/reject/hold your orders or create some slippage for you."

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/for...tor-virtual-dealer-other-plugins-setting.html

"Still, until now, FXCM tended to win even when its customers lost. In disclosure statements mandated by the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission, customers are told upfront that such currency trading isn’t carried out on regulated exchanges.

“WHEN YOU SELL, THE DEALER IS THE BUYER. WHEN YOU BUY, THE DEALER IS THE SELLER,” the CFTC warning reads in capital letters. “As a result, when you lose money trading, your dealer is making money on such trades.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-0...y-trading.html

That's not some fruitcake conspiracy loony stating that fact, that's the US real markets financial regulatory body stating that.

Guys, anyone ever heard of someone milking a casino and getting away with that ???

Spreadbetters are no different. They make money when the customer loses.

Simple as that.

If you want to have a real chance at making money, trade futures.

Period.

I had some issues with Trader333's buddy Grey, don't actually remember what all the fuss was about lol, but one thing I do remember perfectly is that he was a money printing ATM, and he sure as hell had zilch to do with bucket shops, he traded stocks and futures on real, transparent exchanges where prices aren't manipulated to make clients lose, because real brokers aren't bookies, cannot make money from client's losses, instead just make money on commissions.

 

[Aston1st]

This is just a discussion and that is all and sorry if that has irritated you as that was not my intention.

Well Done Trader333. I know where you are coming from

My recommendation as always is Prospreads although many within these forums will not.

 

[tomorton]

Hi newspreadbetter - Its not called scalping, its just called daytrading.

But bear in mind daytrading is an exceptionally challenging technique for a newcomer, demanding very fast and decisive technical analysis and market sentiment "sensing" skills. The risks of a position going deeply and very quickly against you are very high: this separately also brings the temptation to double down or revenge-trade to get back to break-even again. Very rapid trading techniques often don't allow time to enter a stop throught the platform, so your position is protected by a mental stop only, leading to a delay in exit and leaving the temptation to let the suddenly losing trade run in case it goes back into the black. Its also often said that most newcomers to SB use daytrading as their technique and most of them blow their accounts very quickly. Of course, working through position sizing, stop loss and profit targets in a few seconds to get a trade on is a tough task, and mistakes are easily made, you're always working in a hurry against an invisible deadline.

No firm evidence for this but I have heard it said second-hand that the SB firms love a supply of daytrader newbies - this would certainly make me queasy.

I wish I could think of something else to say to put you off daytrading until you've become a consistent trader on longer timeframes with a sound risk & money management plan.

 

[BSD]

I have heard it said second-hand that the SB firms love a supply of daytrader newbies - this would certainly make me queasy.