Scale Trading Anybody?

schoe

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In my bid to find a good system that works while I carry on with the day job I have been researching Scale Trading using Exchange Traded Funds of Indices around the World and commodity's.

Doe's anybody trade in this way. If so which services or charts do you use to find the best instruments to start scaling into and what sort of return do you consider good?

Do you hedge with Options or just stick to scaling.


Any advice, observations or sensible discussion welcome.

Thanks Mark.
 
I have scale traded extensively. Best way to get an overview is Robert Weists book, "You can''t lose trading commodities". It has progressed since then and there is a mailing list called "scalenet" where these ideas are discussed. It can get painful so beware. I have been stuck in a product for 18 months before now and had to carry it through a contango market..this was not a nice experience. As with any trading methodology it needs to be approached with discipline and caution and you need to ensure sufficient capital is allocated to a particular strategy to go to half the price you may anticipate.
 
http://www.crownfutures.com/Public/Resources/ScaleTrading/index.cfm?requesttimeout=500


Scale trading is a disciplined, mechanical approach to medium to long-term investment in commodity futures. It is a methodology based on the assumption that commodity prices ultimately move on factors affecting supply and demand. Two basic principles guide the scale investment strategy.

Is it a bargain price?
Are the supply and demand dynamics about to change in a significant and favorable way?
If the answer is yes to both questions, the investor begins buying the commodity at progressively lower prices until it stops declining. Once contracts are bought, they are then sold at progressively higher prices.


Choose a market that is trading in the lower 30% of its historical price range. Commodities that are produced and consumed are preferred for scale trading. Paper assets such as currencies and stock indexes are generally avoided.
Evaluate the seasonality of the commodity in question. Timing when to start a scale can make a big difference in the performance of your scale account.
Review fundamental factors. What are the short and long-term supply/demand expectations for the commodity? This means, with soybeans, for example, planting intentions, acreage planted, crop conditions, previous year's crop carryover, exports, etc. This additional information not only helps in determining the probable areas of price support -- i.e. will the commodity's price hold at or above its historic lows? -- but more importantly helps determine when significant changes are imminent.
If the above criteria is supportive, then a scale investment plan, based upon available capital, is constructed. The plan begins with purchases near the probable low and makes additional purchases at specified price intervals down to the lowest projected price. There should be at least 30% of capital left in reserve, after allowing for any losses on open positions as well as margin requirements (margin requirements are deposits required by the exchange and the amount required can change without notice).
Enter limit order GTC (Good till Canceled) to purchase the commodity (going long, never short) on an incremental scale all the way down to a level determined to be a "worst case" scenario. Keep in mind that stop-loss orders are not used since the purpose is to accumulate contracts at lower prices.
As each buy order fills, enter a limit sell order to close out the position at a pre- determined price that normally captures a $250-400 profit (net of fees and commissions). This profit objective will vary depending on the investor's personality and market conditions.
As each sell order is filled, then reinstate the original buy order. As prices fall, contracts are accumulated. As prices rise, those contracts are sold at a profit.
Continue this process until the commodity bottoms and rallies up to the point at which your first contract purchased is sold. You have now completed your first scale.


Thought this might help mark in your search for information.
 
Many thanks for the reply's Twalker and 3 legs! It does sound a safe method of trading/investing with good returns.

I guess the main challenge is finding the correct instruments to scale into I need to find a good end of day charting packages which covers all the different markets.

3legs you sound exactly like the author of a book I have just finished if you are Hal, then welcome to trade2win and thanks for the good read!

What sort of return would you expect trading this way? I know that you are meant to take oscillation profits at the bottom but it must be tempting to wait for the instrument you have scaled into ,to turn around completely and wait for the oppposing trend to start and sell all your contracts near the top. (hopefully)

3legs I know what you are saying about stock indices but these can now be traded this way using exchange traded funds which are basically reasonably priced stocks that track the index so they are a good way of scaling world indices, ( but not at the moment as they are nearly all on their highs!)

Regards Mark.
 
Corn and Soybeans are looking the best bet at the moment whats your opinion on those?
 
Problem with the grains is the contango. Although they are cheap you have to consider that when scaling it is likely you will carry the position through several contract rollovers and in a contango market you are of course effectively paying up every time you roll. Of all the grains right now I am only scaling Bean Oil as the structure is flatter than anything else, certainly prefer it to the beans for the moment. I have not started anything yet in Corn, Cotton or NY Coffee. This year I have had successfull scales in Silver, Gold and London Coffee.
 
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Another effective tool when commodities are cheap is to write puts at your scale intervals and take premium. Then if the market rallies you keep the premium and if it goes through your strikes on the downside you take the long assignment. It has drawbacks regarding being unable to capitalise on oscillations until you have the assignment but good when you are feeling that things are turning around finally. Also there is some merit on strategies that increase exposure as the price declines. In all cases it requires a lot of discipline and deeper pockets than you might be comfortable with. Do not attempt to get involved until you have built a spreadsheet that outlines your worst case scenario with regards contango rollovers and the price going far lower than you imagine possible. If you can still afford it after all that and are happy with the idea then have a go. Also good to inform your broker to make the account allocation LIFO rather than FIFO as this will show the real scale PnL on your statements. A cheap way to try it out is with the Spreadbetters but you have the disadvantage there of terrible spreads and rollovers.
 
Hello Everyone! This is my first post. Is anyone scaletrading? There are old posts, but just curious if there are any ScaleTraders left?
 
I haven’t tried scale trading but I am learning to scale trade because it really helps us to not be in a big risk by buying one trade all together. In scale trading the scale order may also be used to get a better average price when entering or exiting a position so this really makes me keen to get my hands on it.
 
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