S&P 500 Futs RIGGED?!

zigglewigler

Well-known member
346 50
The sector I trade has been pulled about the last few weeks throwing my signals out, flip flop moves both ways, totally influenced by the SP 500 futs, well I found a letter that's floating around the traders at the moment.

Jun 17, 2004
Received this message from a member of my investment forum who is currently on the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange:

"Only have a minute but, write more later but... The entire S&P price action in the futures is being controlled by one counter party. All the guys frickin' hate them: their CME clearing number is 990N and they clear through Gelbel trading.

That one account is solely responsible for the current level of the S&P.

They are the ones that are throwing the S&P up overnight.

Then they are the ones that are sitting on the bid all day long, supporting the market action. The S&P pits have been decimated, absolutely ruined.

There is no volatility, so all the traders have left.

Now the hot pit is the Eurodollar pit. Go figure, that used to be like watching paint dry.

All the traders I have talked to view the market as being rigged.

They keep waiting for the price action to break loose, but it never does. They are stunned by the lack of volatility. And furious. "Time after time after time 990 just sits there on the bid. Don't they ever go away. They just absorb the entire market and then push the price whereever they want it to go. 'Gee, I wonder who that counter party is.' They are all terrified of shorting, because every time they do, they get drilled. I thought it was just my systems that weren't working that well, but they are far more dispirited than I."

Intervention at its finest, your tax dollars at work, providing the ultimate tax to us all. We have watched 2000 contract market orders on the Bid at key down levels of - 50 and - 100 on those rare days when 990N decides the program trading will revert to a well defined pattern of "allowable" retracements. The Minis are being rigged in order to provide "support" for swollen price levels. They have to be for now, as without the daily rigging, "Price" would revert to its inherent "Value," a disturbing proposition to those benefitting from the financial economy's adolescent denials.

Counterparties provide an important function in any exchange, liquidity. Given the incessant "intervention" by 990N, there is very little liquidity beneath these markets to provide real support.

http://tfc-charts2.w2d.com/forum/index.cgi?noframes;read=296516
 

donaldduke

Experienced member
1,665 257
Well if the market is being supported by 'someone' then it makes sense to buy when this person is buying.. rather than leg it to the eurodollar pit.
 

TWI

Senior member
2,536 254
That is no suprise at all. Wish I was able to see it in Eurodollar however, just got up on CME on friday and trying to play the Eurodollar spreads but not getting filled just yet seems less volatile than the LIFFE STIRS
 

TWI

Senior member
2,536 254
This story could actually be b/s
Have not been able to coroborate it.
Appeared first on Gold Eagle which has been full of FED intervention talk for a long time.
Alternatively could be a monster options play.
 

oatman

Senior member
2,879 22
My first thought was BS. If the guys on the market don't know where the paper's coming from......
 

bracke

Experienced member
1,286 12
I thought that all markets were manipulated by a greater or lesser amount ,so whats new?

Maybe this bunch are just better at it than others.

If you don't like the way the game is being played take your ball away and play somewhere else.

Regards

bracke
 

The General

Active member
199 16
Lads,

If you reckon the lads who have worked on the pits for 10+ years don't know who it is then you're kiddin yourselves.
Also, if the story is trus then surely there is an opportunity to play the S+P / DJ futs spread ?
These boys will already have been all over this like a rash. If the story is true, then you would expect them to have to support the dow to a fair extent in order to prevent stat arbi programs coming in in size !

Is it just me or is the too obvious to post ?

Your comments appreciated.....
 

stevet

Established member
917 5
at what point do trading methodologies become "rigging the market"? - when there is low liquidity perhaps!
 

growltiger

Member
91 0
The General said:
Lads,

If you reckon the lads who have worked on the pits for 10+ years don't know who it is then you're kiddin yourselves.
Also, if the story is trus then surely there is an opportunity to play the S+P / DJ futs spread ?
These boys will already have been all over this like a rash. If the story is true, then you would expect them to have to support the dow to a fair extent in order to prevent stat arbi programs coming in in size !

Is it just me or is the too obvious to post ?

Your comments appreciated.....

Not making a general comment on market rigging (there are always large accounts running the market up and down). However, I think you will find that the Dow has been outperforming the S&P in recent weeks, and last week was up when the S&P was down. That says either that there is indeed a support program in the Dow stocks, but more successful than the alleged support for the S&P, or the manipulation is not what it is cracked up to be.
 

TRADERguy

Active member
122 3
Hmmmm...I think that John Mackenzie is long. Nothing but someone talking up their own position. His name is on every hit on a Google search for "CME 990N" and the following appears on one of them:

John Mackenzie
[email protected]

John Mackenzie manages private capital and hosts a gold forum/investors exchange on Yahoo! groups.

Edit- If there was a huge buyer supporting the market I would have heard about this from the analysts at my firm way before I stumbled across it on a forum.
 
Last edited:

peterpr

Established member
609 7
Readers of this thread will be interested in an article by Nelson Hultberg at:

http://www.technicalindicatorindex.com/members/guestarticles/pdfs/Hultberg_The_PPT.pdf

It's a pretty persuasive case for the existence of what a number of contributors to "the prudent Bear.com" and "safehaven.com" refer to routinely as the "Plunge Protection Team" - that's an alleged secret Federal Government operation to ensure market liquidity (Bonds Forex equities etc) in times of crisis - by serious intervention in, among other markets - you've guessed it - S&P futures.

I'm not a close follower of the US markets myself - except in so far as they bear on day-to-day trading of UK indices and stocks (which is fair amount I guess!). I have done some serious reading of various US analysts recently though and it strikes me that there are a number of burgeoning anomalies in US markets right now which go a long way to supporting what this article describes.
 

dc2000

Veteren member
4,766 129
Hi Peeps and conspiracy theorists
" the markets are being manipulated " so what they always are. I see no unusual movement within the said time frame. If this 990n was buying up the market do you think for one minute that the traders would be betting against him knowing they would lose, do you think you could do something blatantly illegal on the exchange and they wouldnt question it.
More likely the more the word is spread in the public domain the more the retail traders are likely to go long and get caught out

Nothing in this posting is intended as an invitation to trade these are only my thoughts, if some men in trench coats and dark glasses come to my door I will accept that I may be wrong
 

BBB

Experienced member
1,071 3
What about this little rule then??...

A person shall not own or control more than 20,000 contracts net long or net short in all contract months combined. For positions involving options on Standard and Poor's 500 Stock Price Index futures, this rule is superseded by the option speculative position limit rule.

http://www.cme.com/prd/overview_SP701.html
 
 
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